Obamas lies to get to where he is

[JNickel101]

Maybe we have more in common with Iran than we thought :gag:

 

[tbburg]

Sorry, but wasn't it France and Russia that were the biggest cheaters slipping around the UN "Oil for food" program in Iraq. Hasn't it been France and Russia historically blocking any kind of action on Iran? They are now slowly coming around(more like being forced to come around by world opinion?)

No, I don't thing we have much in common with Iran.

 

[Ecomike]

Of course he supports it. Its the law and as a citizen/Senator he has no choice but to support it. But the question is whether he believes in the law. I don't think he has ever said he believes the decision made is the correct or incorrect one.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/29/a_silver_bullet_for_obama/

Interesting, so was their conclusion:

"Ironically, the impact of last week's decision may be to deprive the GOP of a valuable political weapon. By ending the debate over whether the Second Amendment confers an individual right to own guns, the justices have just made it safer for gun owners to vote Democratic. McCain cheered the court's ruling, but Obama may prove the biggest winner of all."

The real battle always will be how to guarantee the right to bear arms, and own guns, while keeping guns out of the hands of know violent felons, and mental patients with serious issues.

I have always wondered where the limit is with the right to bear arms, personally I have always been fond of my right and left arms, LOL :roflmao:,

but seriously these days a gun is not very useful against a cruise missile. ONE of the reasons the founding fathers saw fit to add the right to bear arms by the people was for defense against despotic, would be dictators and would be kings. While a population armed to the teeth with guns is less likely to be subjegated by a dictator, I shudder at the thought of trying to defend freedom here with just hand guns against cruise missiles and nukes.

Now if every home owner had his own stash of cruise missiles, we would be much safer!atriot:

 

[Ecomike]

No, I don't thing we have much in common with Iran.

Actualy we have a lot in common with Iran. They are the second largest oil exporter in the world, and, I think, we are the largest oil importer in the world.

One of the reasons the Iranians hate us is because our government installed, helped install, and supported dictators like Saddam Hussien and the Shaw of Iran. The Iranians hated the Shaw of Iran, he was not much better than Saddam Hussien......

Iran does not have troops in Mexico or Canada. We do have troops in Iraq.

Continuing to give the people of a country, or countries reasons to hate us and miss trust us is not condusive to generating peace in the world.

 

[JNickel101]

Sorry, but wasn't it France and Russia that were the biggest cheaters slipping around the UN "Oil for food" program in Iraq. Hasn't it been France and Russia historically blocking any kind of action on Iran? They are now slowly coming around(more like being forced to come around by world opinion?)

No, I don't thing we have much in common with Iran.

It was a joke. Hence the gag. anyway....

My point was...as corrupt as France and Russia are at doing stuff under the table, the fact that they are pissed at/scared of Iran right now (Russia is terrified of their apparent missile capabilities) should say something about how far Iran has gone to piss off the world.

 

[Jeep XJ_YJ]

New new new new world order

If we mess with IRAN, China(who gets all their oil from Iran, for uranium) will NOT BE HAPPY

 

[JNickel101]

Actualy we have a lot in common with Iran. They are the second largest oil exporter in the world, and, I think, we are the largest oil importer in the world.

One of the reasons the Iranians hate us is because our government installed, helped install, and supported dictators like Saddam Hussien and the Shaw of Iran. The Iranians hated the Shaw of Iran, he was not much better than Saddam Hussien......

Iran does not have troops in Mexico or Canada. We do have troops in Iraq.

Continuing to give the people of a country, or countries reasons to hate us and miss trust us is not condusive to generating peace in the world.

Well, if you're trying to say we should quit sending aid to the world, then I'm all for it. I'm also hoping that after Iraq and Afghanistan are stabilized, that we stop deploying our troops all over the world to end communism and/or corrupt dictators who threaten neighboring countries or who commit genocide. F*ck em. Lets build giant walls around our country, quit letting in every asshole that thinks they have a right to be here, and live off of our own natural resources and economy. Let the rest of the world kill itself, especially everyone from Africa, across the Middle East and throughout Asia.

:thumbup:

 

[tbburg]

I shudder at the thought of trying to defend freedom here with just hand guns against cruise missiles and nukes.

Well, the good news is, if anybody else is trying to launch a cruise missile/nuke at you, the US Govt. will be trying to protect you. If, on the other hand, the problem is the US Govt. itself, the problem becomes theirs. The government is made up of individual people, and they are not bullet-proof.
Which half of the population do they nuke? 48% of the population admit to owning guns.(Question - what % of the population own guns and deny it in poles?) So, after they launch their cruise missile, they try to go home. How do they enforce the 600 yard radius bullet-free zone around their body? The president does a pretty good job, but how well would that level of protection extend to, say, just members of congress and their immediate families. How about the people actually responsible for launching/servicing/guarding the missiles?

Figure 6 million active Govt agents/employees/solders/elected officials that are the actual problem. 112 million admitted gun owners. 19 : 1 ? In the kind of emergency you're imagining, I'll take those odds.

 

[JNickel101]

Well, the good news is, if anybody else is trying to launch a cruise missile/nuke at you, the US Govt. will be trying to protect you. If, on the other hand, the problem is the US Govt. itself, the problem becomes theirs. The government is made up of individual people, and they are not bullet-proof.
Which half of the population do they nuke? 48% of the population admit to owning guns.(Question - what % of the population own guns and deny it in poles?) So, after they launch their cruise missile, they try to go home. How do they enforce the 600 yard radius bullet-free zone around their body? The president does a pretty good job, but how well would that level of protection extend to, say, just members of congress and their immediate families. How about the people actually responsible for launching/servicing/guarding the missiles?

Figure 6 million active Govt agents/employees/solders/elected officials that are the actual problem. 112 million admitted gun owners. 19 : 1 ? In the kind of emergency you're imagining, I'll take those odds.

The mere thought of the US government launching weapons against its population is as ludacris as any thought anyone could have. I thought of a million funny analogies here, but none compared to that.

and JeepXJ_YJ, you have made enough retarded posts....

 

[buschwhaked]

Figure 6 million active Govt agents/employees/solders/elected officials that are the actual problem. 112 million admitted gun owners. 19 : 1 ? In the kind of emergency you're imagining, I'll take those odds.

Also keep in mind that if it really came down to the gov't going nutzo on citizens, there would be massive sedition from the armed forces. We don't just serve the President, and they would be targeting our families as well.

Also keep in mind that Russia for a time was actually supporting Iran's nuclear program and blocking any Security Council resolutions attempting to put pressure on Iran.

Long story short, everything has to do with oil. Stop importing oil, find a viable energy alternative, and sit back on your lawn chair as the rest of the world burns attempting to pick up the scraps of oil that are left. Then we wouldn't have to give a damn if China, Russia, and Iran jerk each other off trying to be friends and corner the oil market.

The question then becomes, which candidate do you think is going to maximize the resources of the US towards a viable alternative energy plan?

 

[fscrig75]

The mere thought of the US government launching weapons against its population is as ludacris as any thought anyone could have. I thought of a million funny analogies here, but none compared to that.

Yes it is crazy, but then you got those nuts out there that believe Bush had the towel heads fly into the twin towers.

 

[tbburg]

The mere thought of the US government launching weapons against its population is as ludacris as any thought anyone could have. I thought of a million funny analogies here, but none compared to that.

Yes it is crazy, but then you got those nuts out there that believe Bush had the towel heads fly into the twin towers.

Funny Ha Ha. Laughing my a** off. Remember Randy Weaver? Ring any bells? I believe, if memory serves, that after they killed his son and his wife, arresting him and keeping him in jail for 3 years, they couldn't even prove the original charge(not guilty) and ended up paying him 3 million dollars. Put the guy(FBI agent) who fired the shot at the wife in the witness protection program.

The agency responsible for that little fiasco has taken delivery of a small fleet of OV-10Ds and also a small number of M-2 Bradey IFVs to help them with their "tax collection" duties.

 

[Trail-Axe]

Lets build giant walls around our country, quit letting in every asshole that thinks they have a right to be here, and live off of our own natural resources and economy. Let the rest of the world kill itself, especially everyone from Africa, across the Middle East and throughout Asia.

:thumbup:

Typical head buried in the sand liberal fantasy (see no evil, is no evil). If we left the world alone, they would kill themselves alright, and then the strong that survived would come and kill us. The world left Hitler alone, until he was strong enough to knock down the walls.

 

[Ecomike]

Typical head buried in the sand liberal fantasy (see no evil, is no evil). If we left the world alone, they would kill themselves alright, and then the strong that survived would come and kill us. The world left Hitler alone, until he was strong enough to knock down the walls.

WOW, and here all this time I thought it was a typical head buried in the sand ultra concevative (John Birch Society) fantasy!

I guess its better that we go over there and help them kill each other?

Just kidding.:jester:

Being a card carrying liberal myself, I find it funny that I agree with what you said! Just goes to show how silly some labels really are.

 

[JNickel101]

WOW, and here all this time I thought it was a typical head buried in the sand ultra concevative (John Birch Society) fantasy!

I guess its better that we go over there and help them kill each other?

Just kidding.:jester:

Being a card carrying liberal myself, I find it funny that I agree with what you said! Just goes to show how silly some labels really are.

And I think its funny that I find what BOTH of you said very funny....

I should emphasize that my statement was incredibly sarcastic - while I do think we need to build walls, at least in the southern US - and while I also think we need to quit giving so much aid to foreign countries without attaching a bill to it - I realize we can't crawl inside our own shell and be happy.

And damn you Trail-Axe if you EVER suggest I am a liberal again....

:twak:



(BTW its sense not sence)

 

[fscrig75]

Funny Ha Ha. Laughing my a** off. Remember Randy Weaver? Ring any bells? I believe, if memory serves, that after they killed his son and his wife, arresting him and keeping him in jail for 3 years, they couldn't even prove the original charge(not guilty) and ended up paying him 3 million dollars. Put the guy(FBI agent) who fired the shot at the wife in the witness protection program.

The agency responsible for that little fiasco has taken delivery of a small fleet of OV-10Ds and also a small number of M-2 Bradey IFVs to help them with their "tax collection" duties.

That dude was part of the Aryan nation, so if you want to defend him then be my guest. But I guess he should've just answered his door. Sorry I don't have any pitty for his type of people, even if what went down wasn't right. We don't need his type of people in this country, Aryan nation types.

If the US Marshals/ATF want some M-2s, well more power to them. I hear enough people on this forum screaming about how they should be allowed to own any weapon system that Light Infantry carrier. So if citizens can have an AT-4 then Federal Agencies should have something that can stand up to it.

 

[tbburg]

That dude was part of the Aryan nation, so if you want to defend him then be my guest. But I guess he should've just answered his door. Sorry I don't have any pitty for his type of people, even if what went down wasn't right. We don't need his type of people in this country, Aryan nation types.

Read up on the subject. I don't think he belonged to the ayran nation. Weaver was a racist and a white separatist, and he was an a******e. Fine. I agree with you. So anybody that gets labeled an a******e or a racist is fair game for the Government. I guess I'm on the list as an A*****e. Maybe I'd better start wearing a vest and helmet every time I step outside.

If the US Marshals/ATF want some M-2s,....

The US marshals service is basically a Federal police force. They have access to all the hi-tec systems, armored cars, etc they want or need. The ATF is a tax agency. Department of the treasury. Yes, they keep track of all the registered machine guns in th US,... for TAX purposes! No registered machine gun owner has ever taken a shot at an ATF agent, ever. They are some of the most law abiding citizens in the nation. Over 90% of the "convictions" ATF gets are paperwork violations. They're bean counters. You think it's ok for a glorified division of the IRS to use armored, tracked, vehicles equipped with 25mm cannon. They need aircraft that are capable of close air support,... that can deliver ordinance?
You honestly think this is a good idea?

My point was:

The mere thought of the US government launching weapons against its population is as ludacris as any thought anyone could have.

They were shooting at him and his family because of a tax violation related to a shotgun that was too short. No, not a short barreled shotgun, a break action shotgun with a shortened(although still "full length")stock. As a direct result of that fiasco, the ATF went out and acquired M-2s and OV-10s. If the thought of a US government agency using heavy military ordinance is such a "mere ludacris thought", then why didn't ATF get conventional armored cars(which would be less expensive, less expensive to operate/maintain, and require little/no specialized training) and conventional light aircraft/helicopters equipped with the FLIR systems they said they wanted?(which would be less expensive, less expensive to operate/maintain, and require little/no specialized training)

Yes, I'm probably paranoid. And no, it's not quite as ludacris and JNickel101 seems to think.

Edit: Weaver was on speaking terms with the local sheriff. If they really wanted to arrest him, one agent could have driven out with the sheriff, knocked on the door, and handed him a warrant. They never tried.

 

[fscrig75]

We can all sit here and play monday morning QB about what went on at Ruby Ridge but the guy in charge on the ground at the time made a decision and thats what they went with.
Your right I don't know if he was part of the Aryan nation but on the little I did read about him there is plenty accusing him of it, and nothing denying it.(I like to make assumptions)
Now don't bust my balls for not knowing everything about Weaver, when your description of what the ATF does is pretty narrow, oh and the ATF is no longer part of the Treasury Department. Again the ATF feels that they might need Bradleys in certain situations, so what. I bet some people in Cali thought the local cops should've had something bigger when that nut stole the M60 tank.

 

[Ecomike]

Read up on the subject. I don't think he belonged to the ayran nation. Weaver was a racist and a white separatist, and he was an a******e. Fine. I agree with you. So anybody that gets labeled an a******e or a racist is fair game for the Government. I guess I'm on the list as an A*****e. Maybe I'd better start wearing a vest and helmet every time I step outside.
The US marshals service is basically a Federal police force. They have access to all the hi-tec systems, armored cars, etc they want or need. The ATF is a tax agency. Department of the treasury. Yes, they keep track of all the registered machine guns in th US,... for TAX purposes! No registered machine gun owner has ever taken a shot at an ATF agent, ever. They are some of the most law abiding citizens in the nation. Over 90% of the "convictions" ATF gets are paperwork violations. They're bean counters. You think it's ok for a glorified division of the IRS to use armored, tracked, vehicles equipped with 25mm cannon. They need aircraft that are capable of close air support,... that can deliver ordinance?
You honestly think this is a good idea?

My point was:
They were shooting at him and his family because of a tax violation related to a shotgun that was too short. No, not a short barreled shotgun, a break action shotgun with a shortened(although still "full length")stock. As a direct result of that fiasco, the ATF went out and acquired M-2s and OV-10s. If the thought of a US government agency using heavy military ordinance is such a "mere ludacris thought", then why didn't ATF get conventional armored cars(which would be less expensive, less expensive to operate/maintain, and require little/no specialized training) and conventional light aircraft/helicopters equipped with the FLIR systems they said they wanted?(which would be less expensive, less expensive to operate/maintain, and require little/no specialized training)

Yes, I'm probably paranoid. And no, it's not quite as ludacris and JNickel101 seems to think.

Edit: Weaver was on speaking terms with the local sheriff. If they really wanted to arrest him, one agent could have driven out with the sheriff, knocked on the door, and handed him a warrant. They never tried.

I was starting to think I was the only paronoid one left in this country! :wave:

But then again maybe they just wanted to send a message to tax dodgers?

 

[Jeep XJ_YJ]

The mere thought of the US government launching weapons against its population is as ludacris as any thought anyone could have. I thought of a million funny analogies here, but none compared to that.

and JeepXJ_YJ, you have made enough retarded posts....

Sept 11 ?

Your posts aren't retarded, because your another brainwashed idiot. You sound like you have served before, I thank you for that, but you are Ignorant