MagicNelson's 99XJ Build "Josephine"

[Trailbst]

My apologies, I missed the long arm part. That changes the suggestion.

A 4.0L and AW4 will not have a hard time turning 33s even with 3.55s. When I went to 35s, I drove it in 3rd and had approx stock gearing.

I would suggest skipping the 32s and going straight to 33x9.50 or 10.5 You get the height and a little less rolling resistance/mass by staying skinny. No sense in buying two sets of tires. I don't think you'd be happy with the 32s and that amount of lift.

Start a thread asking for pics. I can show you 35s on 4"s, it required some trimming.

 

[MagicNelson]

I would love to get some 255/85/16s (33x10.5) but there aren't many tire choices out there in that size. Are there any other skinny 33 sizes that would work for a 16" rim? I'd like to keep my moabs.

 

[RCman]

You can just go OTK on the tierod side which is what really hangs down anyway. Just buy a Go-fer-it insert and have someone burn it in. Shouldn't be much effort on their part and doesn't mess with your steering/trackbar angles.

Thanks for backing me up. I haven't personally done a D30 OTK (I did have all the parts at one point, does that count? ), but from what I recalled seeing it on others it was pretty simple.

Keep it simple and go out and have fun.

Above all else, this!
Don't get stuck into the "must have a D60s and XYZ parts" that many of this crowd will try to get you into.

RCman, I agree that knowing what I want from the build is paramount. Referring back to my mission statement, I want to maximize both on-road comfort and off-road capability. I realize I can't have the best of both without some sort of compromise so the question really comes down to: What do I want to compromise?
Since this is 90% daily driver and 10% offroad fun, I think on road comfort is more important at this time. When this is no longer my only vehicle, my priorities may change completely.

I have thought about an OTK setup (WJ swap) but again, I don't have the fabrication skills or tools to be able to pull something like that off. Most of the OTK swaps require some sort of relocation of mounts and whatnot. At 4.5" of lift, is OTK really necessary? I realize the stock steering setup will bind eventually but I should still be able to get plenty of articulation with the 3 link and long travel shocks correct?

Also, cost is definitely something I consider when planning a build. This XJ only has 150k on the clock and I plan to have it for at least another 100k. The body is essentially rust free. With that in mind, I look at Stage 2 as a solid investment in ride quality and offroad capability for the years to come.

I understand that 90/10 thing, I tried to do that with mine and ended up a totally different route. :laugh:

You don't have to do the WJ swap to go OTK. Is OTK necessary? No. Will you thank yourself the first time you hit the rocks and don't have to drive home with your 12 o'clock steering wheel position at 7 o'clock due to a banana in your steering; you bet! The cost is essentially nothing more than your standard stuff (the $36 inserts MoparManiac referenced and a 6 pack to the guy you have weld them in is the only extra cost) at this point especially if you still have all stock stuff. WELL worth it. Articulation isn't everything, keeping the traction on the ground is. With the stock steering you can bend it up pretty easy, even the ZJ tierod.

My suggestion, unless you have a huge desire to drop loads of money is to get out and wheel it a few times. That will really point out the weaknesses to you better than reading stuff on the internet.

I know everybody has a different idea of what looks good, and to each their own. You will find many recommendations on here as to what fits and what hits.

For reference, I have a 2" lift with 31s. I can snap a picture if you want.

For 32s, and having read your list of items, I would go with a 3" lift. If you need more, you have the ACOS and lift shackles. This also serves to keep you from being on the line of needing new control arms and a few other items that are recommended for 4.5" and above. Will also keep you closer to the daily driver that you have now, and stated you wanted to keep it near.

Of course, this is what I would do and just my suggestion to you. Your build sounds great so far.

A 265/75/16 is really a large 31" and hard to call a true 32". You are right that 3" is plenty for that with minor trimming on the endcaps and such.

Agreed. No way I'd go beyond the 2.5-3" mark with stock control arms, thing would drive like it hard a wet noodle for steering linkage with the caster angles that resulted from that.

 

[Trailbst]

I ran 285/75/16s, they're about 32.8x11 There wasn't any trimming done to fit those, and they didn't rub.

Here is a link to some tires available in that size.
http://tire-size-conversion.com/tiresizes/285-75R16.htm

I found 4 in the 255 size you mentioned.
http://tire-size-conversion.com/tiresizes/255-85R16.htm

 

[MagicNelson]

Don't get stuck into the "must have a D60s and XYZ parts" that many of this crowd will try to get you into.

Absolutely. I know how easy it is to get carried away and overbuild a rig. That is one of the main reasons that I always refer back to my mission statement before finalizing any decisions. It keeps me in line with what I really need vs what is overkill.

I understand that 90/10 thing, I tried to do that with mine and ended up a totally different route. :laugh:

By different route, I'll assume you mean D60s, full hydro, chopped & caged

You don't have to do the WJ swap to go OTK. Is OTK necessary? No. Will you thank yourself the first time you hit the rocks and don't have to drive home with your 12 o'clock steering wheel position at 7 o'clock due to a banana in your steering; you bet! The cost is essentially nothing more than your standard stuff (the $36 inserts MoparManiac referenced and a 6 pack to the guy you have weld them in is the only extra cost) at this point especially if you still have all stock stuff. WELL worth it. Articulation isn't everything, keeping the traction on the ground is. With the stock steering you can bend it up pretty easy, even the ZJ tierod.

I would like to know more about this. If it is as easy as you make it sound, I would definitely consider it. Are there any cons to that setup? Dead spots in the steering wheel like some other OTK setups?

My suggestion, unless you have a huge desire to drop loads of money is to get out and wheel it a few times. That will really point out the weaknesses to you better than reading stuff on the internet.

Don't let me fool you. I've wheeled this thing (carefully) for the past 3-4 years a lot. I've been to an offroad park and kept up with Wranglers on 33s with no problems doing green/blue trails. My best friend drives a TJ with 33s and I can get through more stuff than he can sometimes (although his BFG ATs do suck when it's muddy). Honestly, I think a locker or two would get me anywhere (within reason) that I wanted to go on my current setup but I'm just ready for the next step in performance for both onroad and offroad.

 

[MagicNelson]

Here's the plan for stage 2:
- 4.5" total lift with 3 link long arms
- 265/75/16 Duratracs
- Spartan locker in Dana 30
- HD offroad relocation brackets
- JKS boomerang shackles
- JKS ACOS
- IRO Double Sheer Track bar
- IRO hack n tap SYE
- ZJ tie rod swap
- longer shocks
- bump stops

To clear some things up, highlighted in green is what I already have in parts. I've been collecting them for a few months. Instead of the Hack N Tap, I decided to take advantage of Serious Offroad's Rugged Ridge SYE for only $30 more than I would have paid for a Hack N Tap + the jig + shipping. Thanks Frank!

On the topic of SYEs, I have a front drive shaft that I rebuilt over the summer because it needed a new centering ball. After I rebuilt it, it gives me vibes. Weird because it didn't vibrate before I rebuilt it. It just squealed a lot. Recently, I rebuilt again to see if I just did it wrong. No dice. Still vibrates. I'm thinking it needs to be rebalanced? Maybe I knocked the balance off trying to get the old U-joints out. The factory balance weights are still in tact. Hmmmm. Any thoughts on this?

The jury is still out on tire size. I really like the Duratracs, especially the 265/75/16 size because it comes in load range C which is 6 pounds lighter per tire. The 285/75/16s only come in load range E (from what I can see). I'd like to stay away from a pure offroad tire like the KM2 or MTR/K since this sees pavement most of the time.
But anyway, 33s would fill the wheel well nicely and they are tempting for sure. The ARB Bull Bar I have is actually for pre 97 XJs so I have plenty of clearance where the end cap would have been. My wheel well liners are long gone and the pinch seem is hammered flat already so fitment wouldn't be an issue. Especially if I bump stop correctly. However, it's the gears that really concern me. I might be able to get away DDing it where I live since it's relatively flat but I'd probably have to live in 4LO offroad and that might not even be low enough. Man this is tough.

Oh yeah, any thought on the Rock Krawler 3 link kit? I think that is the only part of on the list that we haven't discussed. :read:

 

[Trailbst]

You have an AW4, they are beast, especially for their size. Off-road you will be able to use high and low range.

 

[MagicNelson]

Ordering the Rock Krawler X Factor 3 link upgrade kit this week. Tires will be ordered when I get my tax return....hopefully by the end of April. All these parts will be installed when a nice warm/dry weekend rolls around. 65 and sunny is my ideal wrenching weather.

 

[vetteboy]

I'm about 45 minutes north of where you're at (Morganville), I've done pretty much everything you're tryin to do. I've got a full shop, welder etc at my house.

Let me know if you need a day or so once it gets warm out to do any of the projects you've got it mind; if I'm not workin on my racer I can probably give you a hand doin stuff.

 

[kastein]

Having run 33s with an AW4 and stock gearing, I wouldn't do it again. It does work, though...

You can kill an AW4 (I've killed two, and passed two on to new owners without managing to kill them) but it takes a hell of a lot of abuse to do it. Don't worry about the transmission, if it does blow up, it'll take a lot to do it and give you plenty of warning that it's on the way out. They're easy to find for very reasonable prices, because... they don't blow up.

About that 65 and sunny... why is it supposed to snow tomorrow!?

 

[MagicNelson]

I'm about 45 minutes north of where you're at (Morganville), I've done pretty much everything you're tryin to do. I've got a full shop, welder etc at my house.

Let me know if you need a day or so once it gets warm out to do any of the projects you've got it mind; if I'm not workin on my racer I can probably give you a hand doin stuff.

Man, that would be awesome. I've never installed a long arm suspension before and I'm sure it would go much smoother with someone who knows what they're doing. Not to mention the extra hands in general are always helpful. I'll bring the beers :cheers:

 

[MagicNelson]

Having run 33s with an AW4 and stock gearing, I wouldn't do it again. It does work, though...

You can kill an AW4 (I've killed two, and passed two on to new owners without managing to kill them) but it takes a hell of a lot of abuse to do it. Don't worry about the transmission, if it does blow up, it'll take a lot to do it and give you plenty of warning that it's on the way out. They're easy to find for very reasonable prices, because... they don't blow up.

About that 65 and sunny... why is it supposed to snow tomorrow!?

I think I'm settled on 32s for this stage of the build. They're lighter, cheaper, better load range, and they would put less stress on other drivetrain components than 33s would (not much compared to 32s but every little bit counts).

And snow tomorrow?? First I heard of that...but I can't say I'm surprised. Seems like every week it's another snow storm. My coworkers have used up 1/2 their sick days already because of the snow. My XJ has gotten me into work safely every time so I haven't had to use any.

 

[kastein]

At least up here in mass it's supposed to. Not sure about down in your area.

 

[XJLI]

you really need to gear up. if you dont, add a tranny cooler and gauge to keep an eye on the trans temp for now. the AW4 is a fantastic autobox (besides being a power-sucking whore) but once you overheat it good its done.

 

[MagicNelson]

What should I expect to pay for parts and labor for gears? That's definitely something I don't trust myself with doing.

 

[RCman]

What should I expect to pay for parts and labor for gears? That's definitely something I don't trust myself with doing.

Shop or buddy for beers?

Rough Numbers:
D30
$150-250 for gears
$50-70 for a stock 3.73+ carrier (not ideal, but it works if you already have the locker and given your 90/10 street/offroad ratio)
$90-110 for master install kit
$20-250 for labor based on 1st question.

 

[MagicNelson]

Most likely a shop so the work is warrantied. This is one of those things where I think it pays to have someone who knows what they're doing do the install.

 

[RCman]

Eh, opinions vary on that.

Shop isn't going to warranty against breakage I wouldn't think.

 

[MagicNelson]

I was thinking warranty on bearings that might go bad if the install isn't done right. Do you guys do your own gear set ups?

 

[RCman]

Yup, probably done a ten or a dozen or so now.


How often does a bearing go bad?


Now I'm not saying take it on yourself if you don't feel comfortable. It isn't rocket science though if you have the tools and the patience.