Blown Stroker - Megasquirt - AEM

[Boostwerks.com]

Hey Bryson i have a question for you. something i'm not understanding. If this AEM unit is specifically designed for SRT-4 then it only has 4 injector drivers correct? So i assume this will then convert the jeep from sequential injection to batch fire? or am i missing something?

Watching closely as i have a stroker and eaton m112 waiting to go together.
Dingo

I wouldn't say it's "designed for" the SRT4, it just happens to be that would be the most common application. It should honestly work with almost all 4-6 cylinder chrysler vehicles.

In the 4 cylinder application you simply don't use the #5 and 6 injector circuits.

The AEM doesn't change when or how the signal is sent to the injector to fire. It simply reduces or increases the amount of time it's fired.

 

[badron]

Q: So i assume this will then convert the jeep from sequential injection to batch fire? or am i missing something?
================================================================

A: The AEM doesn't change when or how the signal is sent to the injector to fire. It simply reduces or increases the amount of time it's fired.
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Sorry but that just didn't do it for me. But this bit from AEM helped drill it in my old brain.
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(in part from AEM website)
"PRECISE FUEL DELIVERY
The F/IC intercepts the signal to the stock injectors, allowing the user to modify pulse-width by /-100%. The F/IC is the only piggy-back system that can decrease injector pulse-width, allowing the user to drive larger aftermarket injectors* while still maintaining proper air / fuel ratios. This powerful system can also tap into the factory injector signal and work independently to drive up to six (6) additional injectors."
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Or am I still on the wrong page?

 

[Dingo509]

Q: So i assume this will then convert the jeep from sequential injection to batch fire? or am i missing something?
================================================================

A: The AEM doesn't change when or how the signal is sent to the injector to fire. It simply reduces or increases the amount of time it's fired.
=============================================================
Sorry but that just didn't do it for me. But this bit from AEM helped drill it in my old brain.
============================================================
(in part from AEM website)
"PRECISE FUEL DELIVERY
The F/IC intercepts the signal to the stock injectors, allowing the user to modify pulse-width by /-100%. The F/IC is the only piggy-back system that can decrease injector pulse-width, allowing the user to drive larger aftermarket injectors* while still maintaining proper air / fuel ratios. This powerful system can also tap into the factory injector signal and work independently to drive up to six (6) additional injectors."
=============================================================
Or am I still on the wrong page?

Now that i understand it, I'll try to explain better. sequential injection means that each objectors has its own driver. Batch fire means that 2 or more injectors are fired at the same time. A lot of supermarket fuel injection systems for V8 are designed this way. They use a very cheap 4cyl gm computer. batch fire works better the higher the rpm. Our low rpm torque betters are better suited for the sequential injection.

As Bryson clarified the AEM system retains the sequential injection, as it uses that signal to trigger the injector. It can hold the injector open for a longer or shorter time depending on the other programmed variables. The part about being able to drive 6 additional injectors works like this..... take the boostworks xj for example. It could be build using 12 injectors. The original 6 plus 6 more controlled by the AEM system. The xj would run fine at idle with the original injectors. then the additional injectors could be fired as boost increases. A similar setup for a 4cyl would be to have the AEM control the 4 main injectors then use the extra 2 channels to fire 2 additional injectors upstream. Like let's say right behind the throttle body, this would allow for extra fuel at high rpm and boost pressures and still allow great low rpm idle and driveability.

This is pure speculation on my part but I would assume that the injector drivers could also be programmed to fire a water or ethanol injector as well.

By all means listen and trust Bryson more than me on this subject. But that's the operation as I understand it.

Dingo

 

[DriftXJ]

Funny thing, I just got a XJ and don't know much about it but I have been doing AEM tech support for 4 years and EFI tuning for 9years. Maybe I can help =) I've never installed a FIC on a XJ but I would take these steps since the XJ isn't a confirmed application by AEM. It may seem tedious but at least if you run into an issue you can easily trouble shoot it and not have to undo all the wiring.

The 1913 has 6 injector outputs so you can try to intercept the stock 6 injectors or add an additional fuel rail/plumbing and run a staged set of 6 injectors.

First only hook up power, ground, and the crank sensor signal. Make sure you can calibrate RPM and drive the thing around like a stock vehicle. You usually want to do this on an unmodified vehicle first to make sure there are no issues. Then hook up the TPS signal make sure you can calibrate TPS and drive it again to confirm no problems. Same goes for the factory MAP sensor. You'll need to clamp the map sensor once you are in boost but don't worry the FIC has an on board map sensor good to 29psi. Once you have all those inputs hooked up and the vehicle is running with out issues then you can hook up the injector signals. Again test it with a stock vehicle and stock injectors first if you can. Fuel map in the FIC should not be changed since you are using all stock parts. You should be able to drive it around and make sure you have issues. If you can get this far I'll keep going but I can't post ever possible scenario since piggy back and EFI systems is a long lengthy topic.

Hope it all works out =)

 

[FearNoFish]

Funny thing, I just got a XJ and don't know much about it but I have been doing AEM tech support for 4 years and EFI tuning for 9years. Maybe I can help =) QUOTE]

Any help is very apprciated. My situation does not allow me to calibrate on a stock XJ. I have the built stroker installed along with the supercharger. At the same time, I am in the process of wiping out everything underneath and replacing the stock suspension, brakes, steering etc.

When I started it up, it was only to try to break in the cam. Comp Cams recomends 1/2 hour @ 2000-3000 rpm. Of course, when it went into closed loop it shut down.

Bryson has provided me with a base map for the unit and now that I have all the pieces in, I will get back on that. ( I should get the rear Dana 44 in this week)

I will post as soon as I get back into the fuel/ignition and suck up all the help I can from there.

Thanks for coming onboard.

FNF

 

[shawnxj]

driftxj do you know anything about the renix system in jeeps? i'm building a stroker for my jeep and going to try and hook up a piggy back to the renix if it's possible

 

[ChicksDigWagons]

driftxj do you know anything about the renix system in jeeps? i'm building a stroker for my jeep and going to try and hook up a piggy back to the renix if it's possible

For the Renix Jeeps there is really no reason to go piggyback. No OBDII to worry about. No integrated alternator voltage regulator. I'd go straight standalone. In fact, the diagnostics would be improved over the Renix quite a bit!

One of the standalone AEM ECUs would be a decent choice. I've tuned a few of those (just not in Jeeps).

Megasquirt isn't a bad choice either if you like to tinker a lot and don't mind the shortcomings. I personally haven't put any research into the Renix trigger wheel pattern with Megasquirt but I want to say it's been done with the MS2 processor and it's an included wheel pattern in the MS2-Extra firmware. Could be wrong.

There are quite a few other standalone products though that can be used if you're not afraid of a little wiring. I personally like to make adapter harnesses in cars I do. I'd desolder the stock Renix ECU plug and use that to tap into the Jeeps harness. Much cleaner and you can very quickly swap back to a stock ECU for troubleshooting.

 

[DriftXJ]

Shawnxj I honestly know nothing about the Renix system. From what ChicksDigWagons is saying it looks like you can just wire in your own system. The tricky part is decoding the factory cam/crank trigger patterns so the ECU understands when to fire. When selecting an engine management you should probably choose the system you can get support for in case you get stuck. Anyone know what the factory cam/crank trigger pattern is or have a picture of the trigger wheels?

 

[shawnxj]

the cam and crank triggers are hall effect sensors. cam is a 4 window no idea how many windows on the crank.

 

[ChicksDigWagons]

the cam and crank triggers are hall effect sensors. cam is a 4 window no idea how many windows on the crank.

The crank sensor is a VR sensor, not hall effect. Not my favorite but the V3 board supports it without an add-on board.

For Megasquirt you would not need the cam sync since that's only for sequential injection which basic megasquirt does not support. But the distributor is a single window, sorta. It's actually a sync ring I think they call it. Basically the signal goes high when cylinder 1 is starting its exhaust stroke and low when cylinder 6 starts it's exhaust stroke.

I want to say the Renix uses a 66-2-2-2 crank wheel or something similar. Shouldn't be an issue decoding it since you basically just need to trigger the coil on the gap. The other option is to swap a 6 window/trigger distributor and run a simple window triggered ignition.

Either way it shouldn't require any hacking of the OEM harness to get it running.

 

[shawnxj]

you sure the renix crank is a vr sensor? i coulda swore i read somewhere it was a hall. i've heard of people using the 6 window ford trigger wheel in the renix distributor. i was looking at the ms3 for the sequential injection

 

[ChicksDigWagons]

you sure the renix crank is a vr sensor? i coulda swore i read somewhere it was a hall. i've heard of people using the 6 window ford trigger wheel in the renix distributor. i was looking at the ms3 for the sequential injection

Absolutely without a doubt undoubtedly.

First clue is that it only has 2 wires. Second is that it generates a mV range AC voltage. A hall would be a square wave DC 5v or 12v pulse.

That's not to say you couldn't change it out for a hall sensor, which I find easier to deal with on MS. But not all hall sensors can respond fast enough for a high tooth count wheel, luckily our RPM range is pretty narrow so it would probably work fine with the right sensor.

My 2 cents on MS3. With a distributor based vehicle, I'd start with the MS1 chip and get it running as-is with a planned upgrade path. Mostly this is because I've cooked more than one MS1 chip for a number of silly reasons. At $12 a pop, it's not so sad. I'd hate to cook a MS3 package... Sequential is nice, but the nice vs price needs to be looked at. Plus MS3 isn't at all proven yet. I think MS2 is pretty mature now, and I have one now to try out, just haven't gotten that far.

 

[shawnxj]

so if i go with a kit like this

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/...le-efi-system-pcb30-unassembled-kit-p-46.html

i can eventually end up with sequential injection, no distributor, and possibly even boost later? where did you get your initial start up settings? i've heard that can be a pain in the butt. i know your supposed to get the stimulator but it doesn't support everything from what i hear. how long have you been running ms?

 

[ChicksDigWagons]

so if i go with a kit like this

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/...le-efi-system-pcb30-unassembled-kit-p-46.html

i can eventually end up with sequential injection, no distributor, and possibly even boost later? where did you get your initial start up settings? i've heard that can be a pain in the butt. i know your supposed to get the stimulator but it doesn't support everything from what i hear. how long have you been running ms?

Yes, that is a good starting point. With that setup, without upgrading to the MS2 or MS3 processor, you can in theory run Coil on Plug in Wasted Spark Mode for sure. Possibly pure sequential ignition, I'd have to check if the MS1-Extra code supports it, I know there are 6 Available Ignition Outputs.

Initial startup settings aren't bad to sort out really, if you have the opportunity it's nice to put the Oscilloscope on the stock ECU and sort out what kind of pulse width is uses during crank. It's also nice to verify the cranking timing advance. From there, you can make some educated guesses as to what it should need and then you just tune it out. A wideband O2 sensor is a MUST. EGT is nice but not necessary for a Naturally Aspirated application. Knock sensing is another nice feature whether using headphones or some of the other solutions to tie knock-feedback into the Megasquirt.

I recommend a stimulator if you're planning on building your v3 board yourself. If things aren't working like you expect them to it's nice to be able to baseline it. The JimStim is really the cats ass for unusual wheel patterns and more advanced setups too. The interceptor board is also nice for troubleshooting but the general user can probably get away without it.

I've been installing and tuning Megasquirt for ~5 years now. I currently don't have any vehicles running on MS personally though, oddly enough. I have enough hardware in stock to set up a few of my vehicles but I spend most of my time working on other peoples cars and no time for my own!

While I have yet to Megasquirt a Renix 4.0, I do own one, and if you wanted I could build an adapter harness and provide a baseline setup/tune for a plug-n-play MS install.

 

[shawnxj]

i've been talking to a guy at diyauto tune and he suggested i go with the ms2. he also said the vr sensor wouldn't work for them and suggested getting a trigger wheel from them. how hard would it be to adapt a hall sensor instead?

i'm not sure which way to go to be honest. i have a hacked up spare harness so i'll build a harness off of that. what would you charge for a baseline? i don't have access to an oscilloscope and never used 1 before so i'd be lost if i had 1 plus my jeep isn't currently running.

 

[ChicksDigWagons]

i've been talking to a guy at diyauto tune and he suggested i go with the ms2. he also said the vr sensor wouldn't work for them and suggested getting a trigger wheel from them. how hard would it be to adapt a hall sensor instead?

i'm not sure which way to go to be honest. i have a hacked up spare harness so i'll build a harness off of that. what would you charge for a baseline? i don't have access to an oscilloscope and never used 1 before so i'd be lost if i had 1 plus my jeep isn't currently running.

I've used DIY almost exclusively for my parts, they have provided good service. But saying a VR sensor won't work with a Megasquirt? That's crazy talk as I've used them several times. The V3 board has an entire VR conditioning circuit built into it.

The issue will be with the 66-2-2-2 flywheel. While I know renix wheels have been tested, I think it was only the 44-2-2. What this means is technically, it would probably run on a 44-2-2 decoding, but the RPM would be 33% off. 66-2-2-2 support might be fairly easy write into the MS2/Extra code, I'd have to look into it. There are other options though as DIY Auto Tune mentioned. Go with a 6 window distributor (or a HEI standalone), install a compatible trigger wheel on the balancer (12-1, 24-1, 36-1, 60-2), or modify/swap the flywheel. Depending on what you go with, The MS2 may be required or you may be able to run on a MS1. The MS2 is always better, but at $90 vs $12, it's less painful if things don't go right during the experimental phase. Of course, I haven't blown up a processor in a long time...

While it's not on my short list, a plug and play Megasquirt for the Renix jeeps is something I've wanted to do for a while. I saw a really really cool adapter board so you can install the MS board right inside a Bendix ECU case:

Would be great to duplicate something similar to that.

 

[H2M Racing]

Hi!
Im planning a GT30 turbo build om my -89 Comanche.

I have been trying too figure out this for a few years ago and gave up.

Just come to the same conclusion the 60-2-2-2 is'nt possible to use for any standalone aftermarket ecu. And the only thing the distributor does is to tell the ecu when cylinder 1 is in phase for geting fuel.

Im trying to find the easyest way to do this and after a few days reading I thought that a piggy back actualy would be the way out.
Still unsure if it would work now when you mention that the crank is VR and the distributor is hall. For example the AEM F/IC can not use these at the same time?
When looking at the AEM FIC wiring diagram for jeep wrangler 2007.
They have written that HALL and VR not can be used at the same time.

The only option sems to be is to use a trigger wheel 60-2 and go for MS2. (Or any other stand alone)

If i'll do that im tempted to get rid of the distributor and go for coil on plug too.
Know any good way to plug the distributor hole?

And where did you see that neat MS install in the bendix case?

Regards Henrik

 

[H2M Racing]

Anyone know if the 4.0 HO 91-95 has another trigger pattern then the Renix?

 

[Boostwerks.com]

For future reference for those of you who are thinking about the AEM FIC here's my exact pinout:

ECU pin location - Function
A2: Fused Ignition switch output (pos on)
A6: Ground
A8: Crankshaft position sensor signal (Hall Effect)
A18: Camshaft Position sensor signal (Hall Effect)
A23: Throttle position sensor signal
A24: Upstream O2
A25: Downstream O2
A27: MAP sensor signal
A32: Ground

B4: No. 1 Injector
B5: No. 3 Injector
B6: No. 5 Injector
B12: No. 6 Injector
B15: No. 2 Injector
B16: No. 4 Injector

I can't verify the pinout for other various years, but this is the exact pinout for my 99. Please don't assume it's the same for yours. I can't speak for the renix versions, but all HO Jeeps use Hall Effect for both crank and cam. Don't beleive me, read your FSM. :read:

Any other questions? :dunno:

 

[XJCasper]

Thanks! The 1913 is the unit you need. The bosch ECU that chrysler uses will cause a CEL with the universal units due to the way the injector drivers work. The 1913 is designed specificlly for the ECU in your rig (split seconds is the same).

The split second is honestly the exact same thing...only it doesn't have the ability to tune low load conditions through O2 sensor offsets, unless they've changed the unit in the last year (very important!) The AEM is much more advanced, and you end up getting more for your money. Some highlights that I like...

- Ability to adjust how MAPs are read by the ECU (TPS based, MAP based, Voltage based...ect)
- Datalogs work with AEM's standalone graphical software. Get the same visuals that you'd find with a full standalone ECU. This is good because your tuner wouldn't have to "learn" some new graph
- O2 voltage offset to tune low load AFR's
- Real time gauges dash. See what values the AEM is receiving, and what values the AEM is putting out.

If your worried about a base map, simply hit me up! If you gave me your specs I can build you a base map in 5 minutes!

The AEM or split second will work for you, I've just been very impressed with capability of the AEM.

You had me at 'Thanks'...

Off topic:
I will also be hitting you up for a basemap as soon as the taxes hit the bank. Whenever I get around to filing the return. I want to get this thing installed before I start any turbo conversion