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90 xj nightmare please help

take out your starter relay and take it with you when you go to pick it up.
My local autozone said my 89 shouldnt even have one, and I cross-referenced a newer (91?) model in their computer, they got it - and it was different then mine (diff # of plugs). They looked at the one I brought in and got a few others off their shelf and matched me up with one - it was listed under some other car, but it has worked fine for me since then. Maybe you can have your heep running tonight?

(I had been having trouble getting my XJ to start and even went in and took my ignition apart with no luck - it was the starter relay.)
 
well wilchar. the starter relay didnt fix it. and i relized that the oarange and black wire dosnt even plug into the starter relay. the spot i pulled it was under the coil. lil metal box with a bunch of plugs in it. its just a single oarange w/ black tracer. now there is a post on the starter relay that dosnt have a wire on it. can someone else out there who has a 90 xj take a look at theirs and tell me if they have an empty post on thier starter relay. its the metal box behind the battery that has a lead from the positeve post of the battery. the one that dose not have a plug on it on mine is the middle post it has a little tab on it. I AM ABOUT TO DROP THIS THING OFF A THE SIDE OF A MOUNTIAN SOMEONE PLEASE HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
90xjpos said:
well wilchar. the starter relay didnt fix it. and i relized that the oarange and black wire dosnt even plug into the starter relay. the spot i pulled it was under the coil. lil metal box with a bunch of plugs in it. its just a single oarange w/ black tracer. now there is a post on the starter relay that dosnt have a wire on it. can someone else out there who has a 90 xj take a look at theirs and tell me if they have an empty post on thier starter relay. its the metal box behind the battery that has a lead from the positeve post of the battery. the one that dose not have a plug on it on mine is the middle post it has a little tab on it. I AM ABOUT TO DROP THIS THING OFF A THE SIDE OF A MOUNTIAN SOMEONE PLEASE HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

The tab right below the heavy battery termnial is for SOLENOID badge714
 
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wow this sound exactly like whats wrong with mine, except mines a 2.5, ive had the fire blast out at me as well, hahaha, scary shit huh! i know exactly how you feel man, hopefully our problems are one in the same and somebody helpds us both at the same time!
 
90xjpos:
I feel your pain, but I don't understand how we got to a bad starter relay from a fuel pump that won't shut off. Did we get on the track of the starter relay when the engine would not shut off?

Anyway, back to the fuel pump. It was established early in the thread that the pump has power applied to it all the time. It is applied through a ballast resistor after the initial cranking. The ballast resistor is in the circuit to reduce the audible noise the pump produces. I think it was added in '89, but I know it is in my '90 and not in either of my '87s.

Someone else said that the fuel pressure is regulated 2 ways. There is a high-pressure cutoff switch on the pump itself (I was not aware of this, since I have never had my pump out. You could confirm this, since you already replaced your pump, and probably have the one you replaced.)

The second way pressure is regulated is with the fuel pressure regulator on the front of the fuel rail. Basicaly, the pump runs all the time and extra fuel is returned to the tank. The regulator has a vacuum supply line to it and a fuel line where the extra fuel is bled off and returned to the tank. At least 2 people in the thread told you to measure your pressure at the rail, suspecting a bad pressure regulator. Two other people said the diaphram would fail and cause fuel to leak into the intake manifold, which would cause flooding and a possible fire. You were also cautioned this would ruin your catilitic converter. Did you measure your fuel pressure? Did you remove the vacuum line and look or smell it for fuel, indicating a leaking diaphram?

I don't believe in the shotgun system of troubleshooting by replacing parts. I don't think you should either, since you appear to be 3 days away from parts. I recommend you measure the pressure as suggested. Don't give anymore of your parts dollars up until you have some data to go on. If you want to go play in the mud, you need to troubleshoot this to the correct failed part. We are all willing to help, but you need to play along.
 
MoFo said:
Anyway, back to the fuel pump. It was established early in the thread that the pump has power applied to it all the time. It is applied through a ballast resistor after the initial cranking. The ballast resistor is in the circuit to reduce the audible noise the pump produces. I think it was added in '89, but I know it is in my '90 and not in either of my '87s.
Click to expand...

I think they started putting them in in 88 because its in my 88 MJ and not my 87 MJ.
 
Well Mofo I Did Check The Fuel Pressure Yes. And It Was Right On. I Replaced It Anyway Just To Be Safe. We'll Call It Preventative Maintainance. Anyways I Found The Problem. When I Took It To The Stealership After It Died At The Gas Station. They Started Checking This And That And This And That. Finaly I Got On The Net And Found This Forum. Saw The Stuff About The Cps. Which Was The Only Thing Wrong With It. Come To Find Out The Stealership Is What Caused The Rest. When They Messed Around With The Starter Relay. They Put The Wires Everywhere But Where They Were Supposed To Go. The Oarange And Black Wire That Goes On The Top Post Was Plugged In To A Slot Under The Coil Right Below The Coil Wire. They Had The Solinoid Wire Pluged In On The Relay Where The Fuel Pump Was Supposed To Go. I Figured It Out When I Replaced The Starter Relay And Realized There Was A Pole That Didnt Have A Plug On It. I Was Advised In A Pm Earlyer Right Before I Figured It Out To Try Pulling 4 Relays By The Starter Relay. In The Process Before I Figured Out The Problem. When I Pulled The Relay Closest To The Batt. When I Plugged It Back In The Ground Wire Smoke Hella Bad. So I Pulled The Nagative Again Right Away. I Found Someone With A 90 4.0 Xj And Got The Diagram Of Where The Wires Were Supposed To Go On The Starter Relay. And Corrected The Stealerships Mess. But Now The Dilema Is First. I Cant Hook The Negative Back Up. It Arc's Like An S.o.b. And Also I Do Not Know If There Is A Wire That Is Supposed To Plug In Where They Pluged The Oarange One In Right Under The Coil Wire. Or If That Slot Is Supposed To Be Empty. So If You Know I Would Greatly Appreciate Your Input. Becuase I Cannot Hook The Battery Back Up. With It Arcing Like That I Know Something Is Fried Or That Something Is Supposed To Plug Into That Slot Under The Coil Wire And I Dont Want To Blow This Thing Up.
 
the problem we have though is there are 3 sources of power that provide electricity to the fuel pump regardless of pressure or not to get the fuel pump mottor to buzz you got to have electricty going to it (obvious) and on the Renix system it has 3 sources of power.

One is via the ballast resister
Another direct source is the starter relay

if the fuel pump is still buzzing after you disconnect the ballast resist. it is still getting electricty to it

the only other source of power to the fuel pump is the starter relay having a stuck contact...

This was confirmed when 90XJ pulled the fuel pump wire off the relay and the fuel pump stopped buzzing... that sucessufly isolated his starter relay as being bad...

he physically inspected it and found it to be crapped up inside.. which confirmed it was bad...

now we still have an electrical problem.. and this is clearly an electrical problem as he has arking with one of the wires...

we arent in the business of haphazardly replacing parts here this has been a systamatic diagnosis

now i am begining to think there has been a hack job by some mechanics that did not understand the renix system to get it to work i have seen them before where they have no power to the fuel pump and someone that doesnt understand or doesnt have wiring diagrams does a hack job to get the fuel pump to work... im putting a beer on the line that his fuel pump has nothing mechancialy wrong with it... we are dealing with a problem with his starter relay (fixed) and now with the wiringbeing properly configured going in to it

thats where we stand
 
Wilcharl Do You Know What Is Supposed To Plug Into That Plug Slot Under The Coil Wire. It Obviosly Has Power To It. Thats Where They Pluged The Fuel Pump Wire Into. And Thats What Kept It Running. But Now That I Fixed The Problem There Is Nothing There. And The Batt. Keeps Arcing When I Go To Put It Back On . I Have Confirmed By Photo Of 3 Other 90 4.0 Xj's That I Have It Right Now On The Starter Relay. So That Is All Fixed. But In The Process Of Checking Those Relays You Said To Check (the Block Of 4) The First One (closest To The Battery) I Pulled The Negative On The Battery. Pulled That Relay Then Connected The Negative Again (this Was Before I Figured Out That The Wiring On The Starter Relay Was Bad) And The Fuel Pump Still Ran . I Know Why That Was Now. But. After That I Pulled The Negative Again. Put That Relay Back In. And When I Connected The Negative Again The Ground Wire Smoked Like Jimmi Hendrix In The 70's. Now That I Got The Problem Fixed. I Still Cant Put The Negative Batt Cable Back On It Arc's Alot. High Voltage Something For Sure. So Either Something Is Fried. Or Something Is Supposed To Be In That Slot Under The Coil Wire. Where They Had My Fuel Pump Wire Pluged Into. Any Ideas? Thanks Again You Have Been A Great Help
 
hmm let me think now... okay once we got all the wires going to the right places... if you are getting arking on your neg cable... when you put it back on something is grounding out... it wasnt grounding out before... im sure all the wires are in right and good for the ignition switch that you replaced so i wouldnt worry about that.... i would make sure all accesosries are off when u rehook the batt cable back on you would be surpiresd how little of accesories will cause a nice size battery arc... i had a pretty nice size zap that i tried to track down only to realzie that it was arcing from the dome lights, radio and turn signals being on... how does the the wiring look in that area does it look like any hack jobs were done?
 
No Wilcharl No Hack Jobs In That Dept. How Do I Know If It Is Something Seroius Or Just An Accesory. I Cant Check The Accesories Without The Batt. Hooked Up. I Cant Help But Wonder What Is Supposed To Be Pluged Into That Spot Under The Coil. Its Just A Tiny Lil Slot Room For 1 Plug. The Size Of The Oarange Wire On The Starter Relay Thats Where They Plugged It In. And I Know That Post Has Power Because It Was What Was Keeping The Pump Running All The Time. I Think Maybe Whatever Is Supposed To Be There Is Either Pluged In Somewhere Else Or Dangeling On The Body. Can You Check Yours And See If There Is Anything In That Slot?
 
yeah all my slots are taken on mine the SOL goes to the starter solonoid... the other wire goes to my fuel pump one goes to the solonoid and one goes to the computer


i got the diagram in front of me
DK Green wire goes to your solonoid
BLACK wire goes to your ground
Other Green Wire Goes to your ignition switch via the computer
maybe the 2 green wires are reversed

all the fuseable links pile up and go on that bolt stud.. make sure none of them are grounding out to the relay its self...
 
The Starter Relay Is Correct. All The Accessories Are Off. I Even Pulled All 4 Of Those Relays Again All At Once To See If One Of Them Was Shorting Out. It Still Arked. I Dont Know How Much Arc Is Normal. It Never Used To Ark At All. With The Way That Ground Wire Smoked I Am Afraid To Just Put The Neg. On With It Arking Like That. I Dont Want To Fry Anything Else. I Swear If Its Not One Thing It's The Next.
 
any chance u messed up something when u did the ign switch ... did u check it to make it work after u did the ign switch cuzz here is the thing
if the swithc isnt lined up right under the collum it could be in the on postion even though your keys are off which owuld equal arking
 
ok so even though it arked i got the nerve to hook the battery back up. left it sit for a minute to make sure nothing started to smoke or anything. (no smoke) so i got in stuck the key in the ignition and. nothing. no buzzing to guages move no anything no turning over anything. not in the run pos. not in the acc. position. not a darn thing. any sugestions
 
do you think that because the ground wire smoke like heck that it might have went bad. and if the main ground wire were bad would that cause the ignition not to work?
 
Re: 90 xj nightmare please help (off topic)

90xjpos said:
ok so even though it arked i got the nerve to hook the battery back up. left it sit for a minute to make sure nothing started to smoke or anything. (no smoke) so i got in stuck the key in the ignition and. nothing. no buzzing to guages move no anything no turning over anything. not in the run pos. not in the acc. position. not a darn thing. any sugestions
Click to expand...


I am so glad you finally stopped capitolizing every word. That was making it near impossible for me to read this thread.. :)
 
this is really making me think that though one problem is fixed... another one was created with the ignitoin swithc.... no nothing nada zilch... assuming the battery has not died (how could it) and that he new relay is good (it could always be bad) the wires are wired right (we determiend that ) the only other hting it oculd be is the iggy switch.. as hard as it is going to be
i would drop the collum again and either put the old switch back... or verify a good connection ont he new switch and use a scredriver to move the switch where that rod would go in place i really think its an ign switch install problem now
 
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