XJ on a frame?

[Matt S.]

Why couldn't you have saved me sooner?
Was I not listening or something?

Damn stubborn......

Boy I wish I would have found the internet sooner before I went and did all these stupid things that will never work.

Canadians have "special" minds. Very fragile! It was done for your health.

 

[90txXJ]

im not sayin that they dont work but puting a frame on a cherokee wouldnt make sense. that would be like puting a frame on a frame theres no point. then you have two stiff parts mounted together. all that gets is stress. tieing all the stress points together would be more practicle than just slapping a frame on. plus what is mostly being discussed isnt have ing an actual frame cuz then you would need body mounts. all ive seen talked of is strenghtening the UNIBODY, even with all that stuff welded on its still a UNIBODY. for being the advanced fab board you all dont sound that advanced.

 

[CRASH]

im not sayin that they dont work but puting a frame on a cherokee wouldnt make sense. that would be like puting a frame on a frame theres no point. then you have two stiff parts mounted together. all that gets is stress. tieing all the stress points together would be more practicle than just slapping a frame on. plus what is mostly being discussed isnt have ing an actual frame cuz then you would need body mounts. all ive seen talked of is strenghtening the UNIBODY, even with all that stuff welded on its still a UNIBODY. for being the advanced fab board you all dont sound that advanced.

Uh, please re-read Greg's post on the matter.

Comment noted on advanced fab skills. We'll look to you for advice in the future.

CRASH

 

[MaXJohnson]

Uh, please re-read Greg's post on the matter.

Comment noted on advanced fab skills. We'll look to y'all for advice in the future.

CRASH

fixed it fur ya

 

[woody]

Y'all are practicley genii, I swear it's so.

 

[C-ROK]

im not sayin that they dont work but puting a frame on a cherokee wouldnt make sense. that would be like puting a frame on a frame theres no point. then you have two stiff parts mounted together. all that gets is stress. tieing all the stress points together would be more practicle than just slapping a frame on. plus what is mostly being discussed isnt have ing an actual frame cuz then you would need body mounts. all ive seen talked of is strenghtening the UNIBODY, even with all that stuff welded on its still a UNIBODY. for being the advanced fab board you all dont sound that advanced.

I think I got it this time: It's not that it wouldn't work, it's that it makes no sense, you could do it better and we don't know anything.

Welcome to the board 90txXJ. You sound like you're going to be a tremendous resource for us.

 

[Lincoln]

I think I got it this time: It's not that it wouldn't work, it's that it makes no sense, you could do it better and we don't know anything.

Welcome to the board 90txXJ. You sound like you're going to be a tremendous resource for us.

Two burns in one post. I like Croky.

 

[OlyWaXJ]

"all ive seen talked of is strenghtening the UNIBODY, even with all that stuff welded on its still a UNIBODY. for being the advanced fab board you all dont sound that advanced."

Errr did you even look at my links?If you had you would see that I removed the UNITIZED FRAME and built a 2x3 BOXED FRAME.
Look in the upper right of the 2nd link...see the bolts? what do you suppose that is? Mabey a BODY MOUNT?
If your not going to add anything useful go crawl back under your rock or whatever.
OlyWa

 

[Blix]

i would think a frame useless since an xj doesnt have flex pionts in the body(that why back around the hatch cracks out). i would think that if you made body as rigid as you could that would be better. a big x with some cross members would be a lot better like a [X] in the middle that would be good for the front and might need some thing on the back with the leafs. maybe a gas tank skidtied in the the rear cross member. bottom line xjs wernet made for frame or they would have come with one.

Frame intended or not....it doesn't matter. It's the point of strengthening the vehicle, correct? So the arguement, as C-Rok so eloquently stated it, is that this XJ needs to support a heckovalot more stress than what it is designed for. So what would be the best way to do that? Making a frame and then welding it up to the unibody is basically the same as stiffening and strengthening the unibody itself, just a difference in intensity and process really. Unless you are suspending the rest of the vehicle on top of a seperate frame, then it's still a unibody. The fact of the matter is -and I'm sure I'll get some flaq for this- UNIBODY IS WAY STRONGER PER WEIGHT THAN BODY-ON-FRAME! I know, no one really wants to beleive this, but it is a fact. The reason the manufacturers still use this is half stubbornness, half modularity for assembly and configuration flexibilty.
So if you would prefer building a bullet-proof frame such as C-Rok and then weld it up nice and tight to the rail sections, then great, it might be easier to model that way, and it'll be VERY strong.
I would go for the roll-cage direction myself though. If you completely tie in the roll-cage (and initially design accordingly) with all of your suspension points, then maybe run some more tube down your pinch seams for some rock rails, you are going to get the best bang for your weight. Run some along the rail sections as well, these need help.And a very crucial part......tie in (weld) the cage to every pillar, every seem, every rail as possible. Run the main hoop right up tight to the B-pillar. Run the front runners right up against the A pillar. Run the rock rails close to the pinch seam, and through in some angle Iron in there. Then take some angle Iron and weld it as a V runner along all of your pillars, this will help make it an internal/external cage. hmmmm.....did I miss anything?

 

[Roxtar]

Damn Greg, you just don't know anything, do you?

 

[xjcrawlr]

When I build my cage, I will be doing so with an SCCA Rally rulebook in hand. I will do this because;

A) rally cars take more abuse than any other type of race car that still uses a factory body shell..

B) XJ's are similar to rally cars as both have uni-body designs.

C) most XJ cage designs are modeled after cages designed for body-on-frame vehicles which have nothing in common with XJ's

Now keep in mind, these are simply MY observations and opinions that will be used on MY Cherokee. In the end its your junk, do what you want with it, cage it, sub-frame it, full-frame it, hell put a set of half-tracks on it....(That would acually be kinda cool).

 

[C-ROK]

Sarcasm and snappy responses aside here:

My point to 90txXJ is simple; he has essentially walked into a room where he knows nobody and made the assumption that he probably knows more than any of us in the room. Could be true, but judging from the vacancy of knowledge in his responses, I'm comfortable betting that's not the case.
The majority of the people in this "room" either design and/or fabricate for a living or have spent more time in their spare time designing and fabricating than people who 'design and fabricate for a living'.

Simple point..... this is a room full of experienced people.

No suggestion that we can't be wrong, I often am for one, but criticism that comes across as bluntly as "makes no sense", and 'that's the wrong way to do it', isn't going to be received well. Particularily when the critic appears to have very little first hand knowledge of either the "makes no sense" way or his alternate, divinely guided, solutions.

Bottom line, in this environment, the arguement of "I think what you have done and proven effective over years of use on the trail is no where near as good as what I've dreamed up but never actually applied, constructed or tested"; will always struggle to win support.

 

[Lawn Cher']

I usually check user profile... any so-called expert born in the 80's is questionable in my book unless proven otherwise.

 

[brokexj]

You're right, 78 is such a difference!

 

[Dirk Pitt]

You're right, 78 is such a difference!

Not always, but an engineering degree and a few years of experience in mechanical design sometimes compensate.

:gag:

 

[Lawn Cher']

Not always, but an engineering degree and a few years of experience in mechanical design sometimes compensate.

:gag:

You sir, are a gentleman & a scholar.

 

[brokexj]

My hero!

 

[Roxtar]

im not sayin that they dont work but puting a frame on a cherokee wouldnt make sense. that would be like puting a frame on a frame theres no point. then you have two stiff parts mounted together. all that gets is stress. tieing all the stress points together would be more practicle than just slapping a frame on. plus what is mostly being discussed isnt have ing an actual frame cuz then you would need body mounts. all ive seen talked of is strenghtening the UNIBODY, even with all that stuff welded on its still a UNIBODY. for being the advanced fab board you all dont sound that advanced.

Thank you, 90txxj, for illuminating so perfectly why Advance Fab should be member only. :gee:

 

[BIGWOODY]

Thank you, 90txxj, for illuminating so perfectly why Advance Fab should be member only. :gee:

If you cut it down to people who had a clue as to what they were talking about and not a bunch of crap they read on the net somewhere, you'd have maybe a dozen people or so in here.
As for sitting one on a frame, we did this a few years back. We cut the unibody rails out of it and "sunk" it down on a blazer frame. We ran a 400/T400/203/205 doubler/60/14bolt with 42's. It was great for a few months, then from the frame flexing over time, it started to "fold up". It was deemed a piece of shit and parted out. We used rubber body mounts and attached it in 10 or 12 places. To sum it up, it sucked and was quite a waste of time. It's way easier to just plate what's there or build your own chassis and put XJ sheet metal on it.

 

[Lawn Cher']

it started to "fold up"

Like a taco, perchance?