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The good bass, little space project

camarors8992 said:
I'm talking about the kicker compVT. The 12" has a mounting depth of 4-5/16". It says the maximum sealed box volume is 4.6cu.ft. and a minumum of 1.0cu.ft. Is this obtainable in the area available ?
So if you enter the TS parameters of the comp VT, you get a graph like the following:
29gk6xf.jpg


The yellow line represents an optimum sealed enclosure. As you can see, you get a shallow rolloff starting up at 100Hz and it gets to half the volume (-3dB) at about 40Hz, this is bad, as its giving really poor bass response. The optimum enclosure is way too big for your space too, because its in the neighborhood of 2.5ft^3.

The green line represents your optimum vented enclosure. See how the rolloff doesn't even start until 25Hz? Hello Bass! The downside is, for the 12" CVT, the optimum vented enclosure above is in the area of 4.5ft^3. That's really impractical in your jeep, even though the vents are small, only 2 vents, 2.5" in diameter, running 7.2" in length. This yields a mach of only 0.07 which will give no noise.

So that's optimum, now realistic:
If you are going to put a 12" into an enclosure that will fit your jeep, say around .8 to 1.2 ft^3, you get very different graphs.

47bqlif.jpg


Again the yellow is sealed at only 1.2 ft^3 and the green is vented at 1.2ft^3. The vented gives you a boost, but having the smaller size enclosure for the 12" really alters the graphs. To stick with the sealed at this size is preferable, but note how you are going to lose response. The sound volume will be cut in half by 45Hz. For this second one, the vents would have to be 4x 1"diameter vents at 4.51" in length.

So long story short, you can use a 12 in that space, but since it needs more volume for optimum usage, sticking to a 10" in that space is probably the best way to go.

Incidentally, all these calculations were done using WinISP, which is a freeware speaker enclosure program. Thiele-Small parameters (TS) are available from most speaker manufacturer websites, or by calling the manufacturer.

Hope this helps the process!
 
CodyB said:
Well I measured the pocket where the plastic is and it is just about an inch away from being deep enough for a Kicker Solo Baric S8L5 8" square woofer, but i dont know about the cubic inches, the site from what I can determine says 800 cubic inches but Im not shure on the plastic, The hidden woofer would be nice if I could fit a box big enough back there but I doubt I could, if I didnt want to get toooooooooo complicated.

If you are saying that it is to shallow, Mine was too I just made a spacer for the speaker to bring it out more worked great. I used a 10" sud and the box size it said to use was the same as the feder area.I can post a pic if you would like.
 
CodyB said:
Well I was going from the limited knowledge I had and I didnt do the math right, they gave an example of a box 10x10x8 and i just did LxWxH, I'm really new to making my own boxes, I have in the past just gotten boxes second hand...
Sorry, I wasn't criticizing you in any way, often the enclosure volumes the manufacturer publishes encompass the range in which their speaker will function (based on size and excursion - or how much air the thing displaces at high load), not necessarily the optimum size cabinet or tuning to create the best response for your situation. The only way to calculate the optimum size for a given speaker is with the Thiele Small parameters.

If you are going to be making a box from scratch, I highly recommend downloading WinISP and crunching the numbers from your chosen subwoofer. This will allow you to build a box that will produce the best sound in the confines of whatever space and configuration you have available...
 
Beej said:
If you are going to be making a box from scratch, I highly recommend downloading WinISP and crunching the numbers from your chosen subwoofer. This will allow you to build a box that will produce the best sound in the confines of whatever space and configuration you have available...

Ok, but could you give a link or more info to help me find it? I searched google but it keeps coming up with Programming tools, If thats it ...o k a y... Any Help appreciated.

~CodyB
 
1 10" in that space sounds fine too me. I'm not looking to be heard from a block away, just good sounding music.
 
Beej said:
Sorry, I wasn't criticizing you in any way, often the enclosure volumes the manufacturer publishes encompass the range in which their speaker will function (based on size and excursion - or how much air the thing displaces at high load), not necessarily the optimum size cabinet or tuning to create the best response for your situation. The only way to calculate the optimum size for a given speaker is with the Thiele Small parameters.

If you are going to be making a box from scratch, I highly recommend downloading WinISP and crunching the numbers from your chosen subwoofer. This will allow you to build a box that will produce the best sound in the confines of whatever space and configuration you have available...

Thanks for making me feel really stupid Beej. :bawl:

Seriously though, you got a link for that program? That is some damned good info right there. Thanks! :cheers:
 
wow, you guys are my hero's! I have 2 10" kickers sitting here collecting dust cuz I have reinstalled them in new vehicle. I had em in my ranger in '05 but that got totaled. Lucky enough I have scrap jeep and lots of free time. Looks like I'll be makin enclosures.

One question, where ya'll puttin amp?
 
AkJeepKid said:
wow, you guys are my hero's! I have 2 10" kickers sitting here collecting dust cuz I have reinstalled them in new vehicle. I had em in my ranger in '05 but that got totaled. Lucky enough I have scrap jeep and lots of free time. Looks like I'll be makin enclosures.

One question, where ya'll puttin amp?

That's where I am at, I have no idea where to put it.
 
I hid my paltry 250x2 under the rear fold down seat on the drivers side, then just hid the wires to the box under the seat, i ran the remote wire, remote bass controller, and the rca cables under the plastic molding. The power wire(i need to move it) was run out of the engine compartment into my frame just behind my front axle and pops out in front of my rear and goes through the body where the fuel pump wires go in.
 
CodyB said:
I hid my paltry 250x2 under the rear fold down seat on the drivers side, then just hid the wires to the box under the seat, i ran the remote wire, remote bass controller, and the rca cables under the plastic molding. The power wire(i need to move it) was run out of the engine compartment into my frame just behind my front axle and pops out in front of my rear and goes through the body where the fuel pump wires go in.

Your seat would latch with the amp under there ? My kenwood 1000w amp wouldn't.
 
Bryan C. said:
Thanks for making me feel really stupid Beej. :bawl:

Seriously though, you got a link for that program? That is some damned good info right there. Thanks! :cheers:
Sorry guys, I tarded out. The program is actually called WinISD, not WinISP. Oops.

The link is here:
http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisd

There are several dozen subwoofer specs already entered in the program that can be called up from a list. Any woofer you might have that isn't in the list can be entered by obtaining the TS parameters from the manufacturer.

Hope this helps. Back in the old days, I used to have to crunch numbers manually and then tune the ports based on trial and error from a ballpark figure. Vented enclosures are the sh!t though. I've built more than a few cabinets for bass and guitar over the years, and tuned a few stock speakers using the TS parameters too. Its really effective...
 
OUG said:
Here are the pictures of my isoberic box with 2 8" subs. Again the speakers are firing out of phase because of the one behind the other configuration.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b368/OUG/IMG_0275.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b368/OUG/IMG_0276.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b368/OUG/IMG_0277.jpg
Not to be a smartass, but you have your isobaric box loaded with front to back subs and as such, they should not be firing out of phase. Changing them to in phase will enhance the sound.

Isobaric loading of front to front and back to back configurations require out of phase alignment, but yours do not fire into one another. They work in the same direction, so they should be firing the same direction at the same time, hence in phase...
 
BeeJ,
I thought they sounded pretty darn good to start with. I know it hits good. I'll give the wires a switch and see how it sounds. I looked it up on Wiki and it says you are correct. Thanks for catching my mistake.
 
Beej, I think everyone here has in some way benefited from your knowledge, and I personally wanted to thank you for your help, and I believe that everyone else feels the same.
 
Well I am really starting to get serious, in the morning I am going to go measure the length of the top of the rear seat to the bottom and figure out the distance with some satanic math(algebra) with a 90 degree triangle and see if I could fit eaither some Kicker Comp 12's or some sony 12's and stealth thim a little. It will be a really strange box but if I can make it it will look nice and almost as if there arent any subs there... It is probably hard to imagine but I will try to make a stick rendering in Photoshop to show you guys what I mean... But for now I gotta Branson, my solid black cat, out and get some sleep since Im sick...
 
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