Some recent 4.0L turbo fabrication work...

[czb83]

If this all works out, do you plan on selling the pieces seperately? I would be interested the the manifold and the intake pipes. Im not looking for 400hp(maybe 300), and might be going a smaller turbo. If the turbine inlets and intake inlets are different sizes, would it be difficult to remake the pipes in different sizes?

Also, I'm guessing your working around the constraints of the front driveshaft, what if we have 2WD, and don't have to worry about this. There might be more room to do things in a better way. Of course I don't know how much work it takes to figure all this stuff out, but if its not too difficult to have different options it might be nice.

I have been really worried about what I was going to do for the tubing and manifold, so Im getting excited about your work.

 

[Skullver]

right on, nice work, will be interesting to see how it turns out. Here is another fellow that did a neat XJ turbo conversion as well as a bunch of nice suspension and body work:

http://www.offroadfabnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=808

 

[Boostwerks.com]

If this all works out, do you plan on selling the pieces seperately? I would be interested the the manifold and the intake pipes. Im not looking for 400hp(maybe 300), and might be going a smaller turbo. If the turbine inlets and intake inlets are different sizes, would it be difficult to remake the pipes in different sizes?

Also, I'm guessing your working around the constraints of the front driveshaft, what if we have 2WD, and don't have to worry about this. There might be more room to do things in a better way. Of course I don't know how much work it takes to figure all this stuff out, but if its not too difficult to have different options it might be nice.

I have been really worried about what I was going to do for the tubing and manifold, so Im getting excited about your work.

Of course! Although you don't have to shoot for 400hp to run this turbo. The T3 hotside will allow it to spool great (it should have 1psi by about 2000rpm, and full boost around 2500). yet the high flowing 60 trim compressor allows high power to be possible.

I will definetly have piping kits available for those who want it, although because of differences between turbo's I'd still reccomend that you use the turbo I supply in the kits. However, like you requested, I could always make the pipes to your specs. It would be hard for me to garuantee fitment then, but I could do it if you really needed them.

I'm not really worried about the piping fitting in the XJ's. What I am worried about however, are the TJ's because there is so much crap on the drivers side of the engine bay.

Skullvarianright on, nice work, will be interesting to see how it turns out. Here is another fellow that did a neat XJ turbo conversion as well as a bunch of nice suspension and body work:

I think I've seen that one before. Definetly great fab work right there. I don't like rear mounted turbo's because they complicate everything, but I can definetly see it being good for engine bay heat control. Although I am going to take extensive measures to make sure my kit's don't drasticly increase engine bay heat. Such as...The Manifold will be ceramic coated, I will supply a heat wraping kit for the down pipe, and depending on fitment, I might even supply a heat blanket for the turbine. combined with the methanol injection, there shouldn't be any heat related issues.

 

[BlueCuda]

The only issue I see that bothers me is oil drainback, it looks like it will have a pretty decent shot at the pan though. My expierience has been if there is any doubt in the drainback it won't drainback enough. Just went though this on a buddy of mine V8 S-10 that we put an HX40 on, got it resolved it just really need a striaight down shot at the pan. Other than that I like the look of your kit sofar. I could never be a customer because the horsepower junky in my is just as strong as the wheeling side lol. I have for sure had that area under water before. Nice work man!

 

[Boostwerks.com]

The only issue I see that bothers me is oil drainback, it looks like it will have a pretty decent shot at the pan though. My expierience has been if there is any doubt in the drainback it won't drainback enough. Just went though this on a buddy of mine V8 S-10 that we put an HX40 on, got it resolved it just really need a striaight down shot at the pan. Other than that I like the look of your kit sofar. I could never be a customer because the horsepower junky in my is just as strong as the wheeling side lol. I have for sure had that area under water before. Nice work man!

Thanks!

The oil drain will not be a problem. I've built enough turbo setups to know exactly how not to do it...:nono:

It will have almost 3/4' of straight 10an line to the pan before doing a 90deg into the pan. it won't have any problems. I've had harsher angles on other setups and have never had a problem with those. Most oil drain problems are associated wtih either too small of a line, a kinked line, or a line that has an upward bend in it at somepoint before it reaches the pan.

 

[Root Moose]

Coupla things... Apologies if I missed it above.

Do you have a link to a compressor map for the turbo you are using? Isn't a T3/T4 hybrid normally used on fried rice in the 1.5-2.5 liter range? It's been a while, correct me if I'm wrong.

How much boost are you planning on running? 1 Bar? Less? More? Have you calculated the effective compression ratio for the amount of boost you are planning on running?

Regarding the possiblilty of cold water on the turbo housing... The Land cruiser guys that I know that run turbo diesels don't worry about this. They will idle a minute or so before crossing water but beyond that no biggie. It's not like you typically run at full boost on the highway for 30 minnutes and then go straight into a deep water crossing - at least not normally.

 

[czb83]

Do you have a link to a compressor map for the turbo you are using? Isn't a T3/T4 hybrid normally used on fried rice in the 1.5-2.5 liter range? It's been a while, correct me if I'm wrong.

The way I had understood it, is that you aim for the hp amount you want to put out to size it. If the hondas are small, but there going for 15-20psi then there going to be putting out alot of power, perhaps the same that were aiming for, therefore the turbines would be the same size. Correct me if im mistaken.

 

[Boostwerks.com]

Coupla things... Apologies if I missed it above.

Do you have a link to a compressor map for the turbo you are using? Isn't a T3/T4 hybrid normally used on fried rice in the 1.5-2.5 liter range? It's been a while, correct me if I'm wrong.

How much boost are you planning on running? 1 Bar? Less? More? Have you calculated the effective compression ratio for the amount of boost you are planning on running?

Regarding the possiblilty of cold water on the turbo housing... The Land cruiser guys that I know that run turbo diesels don't worry about this. They will idle a minute or so before crossing water but beyond that no biggie. It's not like you typically run at full boost on the highway for 30 minnutes and then go straight into a deep water crossing - at least not normally.

I don't have a link to one, but I could find one if you really wished. I actually own and modify those fried ricers (honda) , so I know exactly how they respond on the smaller displacement's. There are a couple reasons why they typically use this size of turbo. For one, high power FWD cars like lag. It helps them keep traction until some momentum is built up. Secondly, they are high reving engines. My B16 redlines at 8500rpm, and this turbo will keep the torque curve nice and flat all the way to it. On a 2.0L honda, this same turbo will typically reach full boost around 4500-5000rpm. Double the displacement and you theoretically have the Jeep motor which will put the spool range around 2000-2500, and also keep the torque curve flat and fat till redline. I would never use this turbo on an engine of this displacement however if it was also reving in the Honda range. You can roughly size a turbo correctly based of where you want the power, and the displacement. The other way is contact the turbo manufacture directly, which is what I did also. :roll:

On my personal setup I will be starting at a conservative 6psi. Once that is fully tuned, we will bump the boost up one psi at a time and watch for signs of knock. We are hoping to find the limits of 91 octane on the stock block which should be around 12-14psi respectively. Once we find the limits we will detune it slightly for reliability.

About those land cruisers...they have cast ductile iron manifolds, not welded up stainless ones like I'm selling. The cast iron can handle a much larger heat transfer than stainless because it expands MUCH less. The reason why the stainless manifold would crack, is because the certain area that happens to cool drasticly faster than the surrounding area will put a lot of force on the weakest part forcing it to crack. If I had the capability of building cast iron turbo manifolds I would.

 

[BlueCuda]

Also diesels run considerably lower exhaust gas temps as well. I know my Cummins dodge will idle as low as 350* EGT if it idles long enough. Gas motors run EGT of 1200ish all the time, idle or not. Allowing a diesel to idle a bit before getting into some water would certainly keep the housing alot cooler than on a gas application.

 

[Boostwerks.com]

Also diesels run considerably lower exhaust gas temps as well. I know my Cummins dodge will idle as low as 350* EGT if it idles long enough. Gas motors run EGT of 1200ish all the time, idle or not. Allowing a diesel to idle a bit before getting into some water would certainly keep the housing alot cooler than on a gas application.

Damn! I honestly didn't know they had such low egt's at idle! I would have thought the opposite with the ubber high compression ratio's. I wonder if it has to do with the very high fuel pressures required with diesel fuel?

But I agree, thats another good point.

 

[87manche]

Damn! I honestly didn't know they had such low egt's at idle! I would have thought the opposite with the ubber high compression ratio's. I wonder if it has to do with the very high fuel pressures required with diesel fuel?

But I agree, thats another good point.

because a diesel controls engine output by regulating fuel not air. SO at idle you're not putting a whole lot of fuel into the motor, less fuel=less heat.

 

[PstrKd4BrthCntrll]

Major props on the project. I like where you placed your turbo. Stealthy! Looks like everything is going good. I have a 95 Grand cherokee 4.0L that I DD and I plan on either lifting it more for looks[cause I have a chero i beat on] or turboing it. Im not too familiar with turbos...

I was wondering if you plan on added a intercooler to your setup? I think the Grand Nationals just had the turbo dumping into the intake without a intercooler. How much of a difference would there be with and without a intercooler?

Do turbos require a tap into the engine oil pump? or does the turbo itself draw in oil from the pan? I couldnt really see where the oil lines where going from the pics[unless i just missed them]

 

[Flip94ta]

I am interested in seeing at what rpm these things will spool up, you off road guys with big tires are gonna want the spool to be closer to 2000 rpm.

 

[Boostwerks.com]

Major props on the project. I like where you placed your turbo. Stealthy! Looks like everything is going good. I have a 95 Grand cherokee 4.0L that I DD and I plan on either lifting it more for looks[cause I have a chero i beat on] or turboing it. Im not too familiar with turbos...

I was wondering if you plan on added a intercooler to your setup? I think the Grand Nationals just had the turbo dumping into the intake without a intercooler. How much of a difference would there be with and without a intercooler?

Do turbos require a tap into the engine oil pump? or does the turbo itself draw in oil from the pan? I couldnt really see where the oil lines where going from the pics[unless i just missed them]

Thanks!

Mine and the kit's I sell will not be intercooled. However I am including a 150psi methanol injection kit which will work just as well, and save the user from any major chassis hacking. Adding an IC to the kit is definetly possible, it just requires modification to the rig, which is why I'm choosing not do include them.

Turbo's do require a source of oil. The kit's will include a 3an ss braided line which will source oil from the stock oil pressure sender location. The oil then drains from the turbo back into the pan. I don't have any lines attached in the pics so thats why you don't see them.

Flip94taI am interested in seeing at what rpm these things will spool up, you off road guys with big tires are gonna want the spool to be closer to 2000 rpm.

It's hard to say exactly when it will since no one has used this particular turbo, and manifold design on the 4.0L to date. However, with some reccomendations by Garrett themselves, and with some common sense based off my 8 years of custom turbo charger work, this turbo with a .63ar turbine should have full boost at about 2500-2800rpm. I will however be using a .82ar housing to make it a little laggier, because I would rather have better fuel economy while cruising. User's can also choose to have the .48ar turbine if they want even quicker spool.

 

[Boostwerks.com]

BTW, I took some quick pics today of the intake tube, and charge piping roughly in their positions. Unfortunetly I wasn't able to take pics of them while the turbo was on, so you'll have to use your imagination...

And the sticker's I'm about to get made...

 

[MrShoeBoy]

Looks good from the pics. I would highly recomend ditching the factory motor mounts as they are complete crap. My stock motor started to pull the rubber appart and there where marks on the radiator from the fan. I would be afraid to see what would happen if I kept the stock mounts with the stroker. I think the same would also apply to a turbo'd motor. Too much torque for them to handle and boom there goes the fan into the radiator.

AARON

 

[Boostwerks.com]

Looks good from the pics. I would highly recomend ditching the factory motor mounts as they are complete crap. My stock motor started to pull the rubber appart and there where marks on the radiator from the fan. I would be afraid to see what would happen if I kept the stock mounts with the stroker. I think the same would also apply to a turbo'd motor. Too much torque for them to handle and boom there goes the fan into the radiator.

AARON

Hehe oh yeah. Theres no way these things would last. Also the engine movement under torque would just be insane because of the amount of rubber they shoved in the stock mounts. I'll definetly want people to upgrade to poly's. :thumbup:

 

[Dr. Dyno]

I would highly recomend ditching the factory motor mounts as they are complete crap. My stock motor started to pull the rubber appart and there where marks on the radiator from the fan. I would be afraid to see what would happen if I kept the stock mounts with the stroker.

Agree. After 32k miles running my stroker, the driver's side engine mount had almost completely come apart (I had new mounts fitted at the same time as the stroker engine swap in July 2004) so I replaced it as a semi-emergency with a new stock mount. The passenger side mount still looks perfect.
I'm going to buy the MORE bombproof mounts and swap them in when the existing mounts start to crack again (probably won't take long).

 

[MrShoeBoy]

I have had the MORE bomb proof mounts for years and they are holding up just fine! Before them, the Jeep would only rock a slight bit when blipping the throttle, but after installing the mounts, I can get the whole Jeep to rock just by blipping the throttle. Its really intimidating

AARON

 

[Boostwerks.com]

I have had the MORE bomb proof mounts for years and they are holding up just fine! Before them, the Jeep would only rock a slight bit when blipping the throttle, but after installing the mounts, I can get the whole Jeep to rock just by blipping the throttle. Its really intimidating

AARON

Those are still rubber arn't they? I wonder how much deflection they have.