S&W Roll Cage question

[RoyalXJ]

s&w cages are definitely tight without modifying. im around 6'2" and dont fit in my buddies very comfortably. i couldnt wheel it without a helmet.

 

[fasteddieyj]

I didn't think that YJs or TJs had a "real" piece there, only the JKs? I think it's really really thin metal with some foam / canvas around it (mostly for looks) in the TJ / YJ. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If I remember correctly, the "cages" on them are thin walled chromoly tubing.

 

[MaxxXJ]

After yesterday at our 4wp car crawling event I've been convinced that an exo cage is the way to go.

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

I have always thought that a cage was there to protect the occupants, not the Rig. Even the "failed" Wrangler cage let the occupants walk away.

That bolt in cage has flanges. Not as strong as welded to be sure but... The hoops are one piece and it is the hoops that are going to carry the load in a roll over. The horizontal pieces are spreaders and are there to keep the hoops in line.

And to make a blanket "(...someone with a bolt in cage will not go to that extent)" statement is a bit condesending don't you think?

Have you made a load test on the bracketry? Do you know how much force is required to break them?

If you want full protection then an Exo is the only way to go provided it is properly secured to the chassis. Any internal cage is better than nothing.

 

[rockclimber]

Any internal cage is better than nothing.

I disagree... a poorly designed internal cage is just going to mean more shit to crush you when you roll it when you are pushing it too hard because you have a "roll cage"

 

[crazyjim]

If you want full protection then an Exo is the only way to go provided it is properly secured to the chassis. Any internal cage is better than nothing.

What...

I've not seen a single Exo cage built that would have held up better than an internal cage... Sure they help protect the body, but you HAVE to make sacrifices on an exo cage where you don't on a normal cage...

You're correct in your thought that a cage is only supposed to protect the occupants, and while that cage in the TJ did that, it BARELY did... The problem is you don't know what kind of a roll you're going to be in, you don't know if you're going to flop, tumble, or bounce... Also I'll add that having a cage seems to give people more confidence in doing things they normally wouldn't, giving a false sense of security.

As for your comment of any internal cage is better than nothing, you're completely wrong. Aside from the previously mentioned fact that people get ballsier with a cage, it can also become a death trap if it traps you inside. Even worse, the cage itself could be what kills you. A proper cage should be overbuilt, every time. It should be built to handle the worst type of rollover you could ever imagine yourself being in, while still providing a safe "pod" for the passengers. A well built cage that you can hit your head on is no safer than no cage at all. You need to pad it correctly, and often times wear a helmet, if crawling at least a bash helmet half cap.

A buddy told me once... 'A good cage isn't comfortable, and a comfortable cage isn't good'. Meaning you may have to work a bit more to get in and out, but it'll save your ass when it needs to.

 

[SolarBell]

Ok then I have a question - For those of us that use our XJ's as daily drivers and family transporters but like to hit moderate to harder trails on the weekends, WTF should we do? There is no way I can justify putting in a complete jungle gym that will make my back seat nearly unusable for people with legs and make it that much harder for my family to get in and out of.

 

[xcm]

forget the jungle gym if its not a jeepspeed/all out extreme crawler...

But in reality, there has to be a point where you pick one or the other... My 90 jeepspeed outlaw QUICKLY became unstreetable... not because of the actual laws, but because i dont want to crawl thru the cage 5 times a day... my solution was to buy a 2nd late model jeep as a daily driver, i couldnt be happier. My passenger can now make a phone call while moving, something that was impossible before, i can also drive 2 hours non stop, in COMFORT.

 

[jeeperjohn]

With my bolt in cage I feel slightly safer. Not much but a little bit. It doesn't change how I drive as mine is daily driven and I need to get to work. In a perfect world I would have a new shell to start from scratch with and put in a full internal and external cage and all of the other required bracing etc. The debate will rage on and I will wheel on.

 

[slappomatt]

After yesterday at our 4wp car crawling event I've been convinced that an exo cage is the way to go.

EXO cages are Dumb. :gee:

 

[xcm]

can we just get a thread going in prerunner tech, where us jeepspeed snobs can thumb our noses at those with 6 point cages?

maybe also one in mod tech where the crawlers can debate exo vs into?

 

[MoparManiac]

I've also seen plenty of pictures of peoples shoulder harnesses mounted incorrectly for their shoulder height. Commonly overlooked detail that could ruin ones spine.

 

[SolarBell]

forget the jungle gym if its not a jeepspeed/all out extreme crawler...

But in reality, there has to be a point where you pick one or the other... My 90 jeepspeed outlaw QUICKLY became unstreetable... not because of the actual laws, but because i dont want to crawl thru the cage 5 times a day... my solution was to buy a 2nd late model jeep as a daily driver, i couldnt be happier. My passenger can now make a phone call while moving, something that was impossible before, i can also drive 2 hours non stop, in COMFORT.

I get it, but that Wrangler everyone was bashing the cage on was probably not built as an all-out extreme crawler so the cage was more than likely deemed "good enough" for what the guy expected to run. So where is the middle ground? Is it possible to build a cage that is reasonably safe for moderate / harder wheeling but can still accommodate a family?

I am probably like a lot of other folks that I would like to have another vehicle for DD and build my XJ as trail-only, but that is still a few years off and I'd like to make my family a little safer before then.

 

[stumpXJ]

I just finished my hybrid internal/external cage that is family friendly...to a point. I have an internal B and C-pillar tube structure, that will still allow a rearward facing car seat (I have a 13 month old daughter) in the middle of the rear seat, and you could still fit in the rear. The rear area is small anyway, and its a little smaller now with the tube, but its still manageable. I designed the rear around a very compact Combi car seat. When she is older, and can sit in a normal facing position, I will easily add a vertical bar in the center from the cross bar on the B-Pillar going to the exo cage. Its not the ideal cage in terms of strength, but its light years better than nothing, and still allows a functional rear seat.

This is not my DD, but certainly could be in a pinch.

 

[Justpunchit]

I've also seen plenty of pictures of peoples shoulder harnesses mounted incorrectly for their shoulder height. Commonly overlooked detail that could ruin ones spine.

For sake of good info in the thread what is the proper measurements for a shoulder bar?

 

[stumpXJ]

Ive seen various numbers, but the gist of what I know is the upper shoulder harness attachement point should be no lower than 5-10 degrees below the level of the shoulders, with level being ideal.

~ Stump

 

[MoparManiac]

For sake of good info in the thread what is the proper measurements for a shoulder bar?

I'm not an expert on it, but Stumps info concurs with what I've read.

Every manufacturer varies a bit but either level or up to 10º down seems to be the common measurement.

 

[crazyjim]

 

[souske]

What about a 4 pt. Harness? I don't really want to give up my Zj seats, but I feel the 25 year old 3pt belts are becoming inadequate.

 

[xcm]

4 point is just a 5-point, minus the anti submarine belt, no?