I've lost my mind.. or an MP90 on a stroker

[Talyn]

Its called Dibond, which is a trade name. Aluminum faces, polyethylene core. The pieces I cut are from 1 piece of 1/4" bonded to a piece of 1/8" to give me approximately 3/8". It cuts easily and is great for stuff like this.


Using emachineshop.com I can get a standard 1" 70mm throttle body spacer for $74 shipped, which actulaly isn't too bad. Adding a tap on each side just about doubles the price. I can tap it myself for that much.. and anodizing adds about $300.. LOL.

Now, for a 1" spacer with an oval on the front to avoid the inlet edges and a 70mm circle on the back is $80 shipped, then I would have to hand blend it myself... that may be the way to go..

Something a little more intricate and larger, where the front side would blend with the MP90 inlet and then a circle on the backside that would match the TB is around $160, but I would have to hand blend the interior.

 

[Talyn]

This is a compromise between the two designs.

Supercharger side:

TB side:

Rough of how it will be mounted to the 3/8" inlet plate:

I would still have to blend it by hand, which is why you see that hole in the center. The area of the side facing the MP90 has a larger area than the 70mm opening for the throttle body.

This design would provide plenty space for extra vacuum taps, only push the throttle body back further by .625" and would allow me to blend the TB opening with the MP90 body. Plus having the TB off center like that not only allows more room for the vacuum taps directly on the inlet plate and more room for the IAC but provides more room for the intake tubing. It would be about $80 via emachine. I would use a local person but the last time was a really bad experience. I needed 6 .25" aluminum plates cut to 4x6" with 4 holes exactly placed. It took they 3 times to get it right with a file I provided them with exact placement. The first time was a joke.. nothing lined up.

 

[old_man]

Its called Dibond, which is a trade name. Aluminum faces, polyethylene core. The pieces I cut are from 1 piece of 1/4" bonded to a piece of 1/8" to give me approximately 3/8". It cuts easily and is great for stuff like this.


Using emachineshop.com I can get a standard 1" 70mm throttle body spacer for $74 shipped, which actulaly isn't too bad. Adding a tap on each side just about doubles the price. I can tap it myself for that much.. and anodizing adds about $300.. LOL.

Now, for a 1" spacer with an oval on the front to avoid the inlet edges and a 70mm circle on the back is $80 shipped, then I would have to hand blend it myself... that may be the way to go..

Something a little more intricate and larger, where the front side would blend with the MP90 inlet and then a circle on the backside that would match the TB is around $160, but I would have to hand blend the interior.

Thanks for the info on Dibond. I have a CNC mill at home and a 5'x5'x18" cnc 3d router so building stuff isn't a hassle other than the fact that I am working on contract a thousand miles from home. It is driving me crazy.

 

[Talyn]

I have a CNC mill at home and a 5'x5'x18" cnc 3d router so building stuff isn't a hassle

I wish I had my own CNC mill, but I don't think the apartment people would be too happy.

That reminds me. I was washing the mock up head in the tub and I had a friend over and they asked "why is there a head in the bath tub?"... the only answer I could think of was "Because it wouldn't fit in the dishwasher."

Speaking of mock up head here are some pics of the assembly on the head
Back, showing the linkage:

Spacer will go between the back pate and throttle body, replacing the spacer already present. I also think I will extend the manifold plate to allow me to extend the MP90 output plate. I've a bit concerned that the studs from the MP90 on the driver's side will either hit the manifold or be a pain to install themselves. Extending both will allow more room for bolts/studs. There is enough room to do so and the closest point will be the rear of the MP no where the bypass valve linkage currently is. that will be moved to the passenger side of the MP90 since there is more room there.

Front view, I'll still haven't decided what to do with the fuel pressure check valve. I don't think there will even be enough clearance for a 90* fitting there. However, there is ample room to remove the fuel rail without removing the back plate.

This should clear the hood and provide a reasonable angle for the cables. Once I get the TJ IAC I may rotate the mount a bit more just to provide a bit of extra clearance. That is a stock valve cover with the Hesco VC spacer. I have an extended VC that replaced it. I see making a small cover to tidy up the appearance of the cables a bit once installed.

I think this back plate layout, #7, is a winner. It allows more room for some vacuum connects on the back of the plate and good room for the intake tubing on the driver's side. There are some changes I will do of course before cutting it.

I also think I will go with this 1" spacer ($80) for blending as well as extra vacuum taps. Keep in mind that the smaller circle is there so I can blend the TB port into the PM 90 opening.

And just for shits and giggles the ZJ in the recent snow. I was one of 3 people that came into work that day.

 

[yossarian19]

Dude, you're in Radford - WTF is up with all that snow? Isn't that a bit unusual for the area?
Also -
This thread keeps giving me a dopey grin. Glad to see progress being made!

 

[Talyn]

Dude, you're in Radford - WTF is up with all that snow? Isn't that a bit unusual for the area?

Nah.. it snows here. About two years ago it was heavy as well. However I don't think it was quite this much at one time.

 

[Vanimal]

that thing is looking slick. save your cad files for when i do mine lol

 

[Talyn]

A few updates, more test fitting and modifying mostly.

First, I picked up one of those Jaguar intake tubes.
Looks like it was made to fit in this location:

However I seriously doubt it will clear the hood like that. However, rotated a bit toward the driver side and it may work. I'll have to see though as that will be one of the last steps. Worst case I clean it up a bit, maybe polish or powder coat it and put back on ebay for an actual Jaguar owner to buy. Maybe profit?

I did a mock up on the spacer using some high density urethane (dense foam). I had a piece of scrap that was an inch think and it cuts like butter on the routed. A bit of quick sanding and a coat of paint. Don't mind the messy transition... I was in a bit of a hurry to leave but I wanted to get it finished.

Throttle body side:

Manifold side:

Installed:

Plenty of room for vacuum ports.

 

[Talyn]

I also modified the SC exhaust plate and resized the weld plate and put some holes and studs in it.

This is using studs on the outside row of the SC. Its close, but not bad. I lose one of the stock holes that I could use for a boost port, but still enough room.

This is the revised exhaust plate:

As opposed to using the stud from the SC and since I have room (I think, will need to verify) I put in another row of studs. It gives me more room to install the nuts as well as room from the boost ports:

Not a lot of room, but it will work. I may give an extra .030" though. This is the driver side:

Passenger / inboard side. Again, I may be able to adjust, but may not on this side as that is right around the area of the welding:

And that IAC I kept referring to as being from a TJ, its not. Its just an earlier sensor. I'll have to find the plug and splice it into the harness.

I'll go with some shorter studs as well as rethink the washer situation. The bottom blue washers are flat and the top ones are Belleville and provide a lock. I was planing on putting flat washers under the Belleville washers to protect the aluminum, but I won't like how they mate up. I could use nylock lock nuts, but there is always the possibility that if I need to remove the SC from the manifold that the nuts will stay locked and pull the studs out. Of course the studs will be loctite'd into place for thread sealing as well as locking.

I also need to decide if I should use the studs from the SC or go with the separate row of studs on the driver side. Maybe more unneeded complexity? Or better anchoring?? Checking for clearance will give one form of an answer. Using the studs from the manifold will allow a narrower weld plate and SC exhaust plate, however I will lose a boost tap.

 

[yossarian19]

You could use serrated flange nuts instead of belleville washers. If you are really concerned about them backing off (I probably wouldn't be, provided you use serrated nuts) you could use blue loctite on the nuts & green on the studs.

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

All metal "crush" self lock nuts work well in high heat applications. I would be wary of a nylock in this area. I am a bit paranoid though...

Vacuum taps. One of the things I have found to help the vacuum levels out is to braze a short piece of brass tubing into the bottom of the fitting that is long enough to get it into the air stream. Gives a nice venturi boost to the vacuum signals.

Just has to be long enough to clear the part it is mounted into.

 

[Vanimal]

All metal "crush" self lock nuts work well in high heat applications. I would be wary of a nylock in this area. I am a bit paranoid though...

Vacuum taps. One of the things I have found to help the vacuum levels out is to braze a short piece of brass tubing into the bottom of the fitting that is long enough to get it into the air stream. Gives a nice venturi boost to the vacuum signals.

Just has to be long enough to clear the part it is mounted into.

Stover nuts will definitely pull the studs out when removed, even with red locktite (although only blue should be used in aluminum). Especially if there is enough heat to effect the nylocks.

 

[Talyn]

Stover nuts will definitely pull the studs out when removed, even with red locktite (although only blue should be used in aluminum). Especially if there is enough heat to effect the nylocks.

I haven't seen anything from loctite that only blue should be used. I do know that aluminum does need the activator applied first.

All metal "crush" self lock nuts work well in high heat applications. I would be wary of a nylock in this area. I am a bit paranoid though...

Nylon is good until around 250*. I odn't think it will get that hot... but anything is possible.

You could use serrated flange nuts instead of belleville washers.

Serrated will definitely tear the aluminum up.

I think I will stick with the bellevilles or use some nord lock washers. However the thing I like about the bellvilles is that they keep constant tension on the part acting like a spring.

 

[bigdaddyjlove]

Would these work?

http://stage8.com/

 

[Vanimal]

I haven't seen anything from loctite that only blue should be used. I do know that aluminum does need the activator applied first.

Nylon is good until around 250*. I odn't think it will get that hot... but anything is possible.

Serrated will definitely tear the aluminum up.

I think I will stick with the bellevilles or use some nord lock washers. However the thing I like about the bellvilles is that they keep constant tension on the part acting like a spring.

We've had issues with red damaging aluminum threads during removal on more than one occasion. I'm not sure if the holding strength is too high for the threads in cast aluminum or what.

 

[Talyn]

A couple weeks ago I mocked up the supercharger + manifold on an engine. Used the Gates Laser Align tool to pull the SC pulley inline with the crank pulley. From my crude measurements off the PS pump was only 1/16" off. I'm unsure if i will continue to use the Gates tool or get the Dayco which shoots a line instead.. and also doesn't need calibration.

Close up:

I also did come measuring. The red circle is where the throttle bracked will land.. plent of space. The green is where the highest point on the front of the MP90 body will be.. its close, but a 1/2" engine drop and maybe some of the brace removal will help. The red is where the pulley will land. The hood latch will definitely have to be moved over and I might have just enough room to clear once I do that, shave the front of the pulley down a bit and lower the engine.

This is where the throttle body will hit in relation to the fuel rail... I have 3-4" behind that before the fire wall. Still don't know if the Jaguar intake tube will fit.

I measured for clearance to extend the plates out to the driver's side. I have plenty, but I can't move the MP any further to the driver's side due to clearance with the brake booster. However, I can extend both plates so I don't have to mount off the SC studs (more clearance between the side of the manifold and the studs) and more room to mount the manifold support.

Last week I ordered a piece of aluminum to weld on tht manifold. This will be one of the parts that will make me the most nervous. The possibility of damaging the manifold, not sealing the plate to the manifold and possibly warping the manifold itself.

 

[Talyn]

Not much of an update. The manifold has been at the welders for the past month or so to attach the top plate to the manifold. He said he was almost done last week. Ugh... seems like most of my projects are on hold due to some outside source.

I did remove the bypass bearings so I can run the bypass actuator on the passenger side instead of the driver's side of the MP90. The bearings themselves were $30 for both and I used this tool to remove them: http://www.ebay.com/itm/390672342439?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

This tool made it a breeze to remove the bearings. I also pulled the worn bearing on my throttle body to replace with this tool as well. It can be also used to remove the transfer case bearings. I'm undecided if I should keep it or sell the kit at a discount.

Excuse the shitty tablet camera pics... I left the real camera at home.

Magnuson wanted $90 for labor + parts + shipping to replace the bearings. And shipping this heavy bitch to Cali is not cheap. Magnuson would not sell just the bearings to me. Luckily the bearing has the part number on them and while they were a bit hard to find I found a local guy that could get them. And he even dropped them off at my place of work. Nice.

So all I need now is the actuator valve and the arm, which I can install myself.

 

[Talyn]

After a long wait I got my SC manifold back from the welder. The welds may not be pretty, but they are much better than I expected. Especially when considering he was welding a 1/2" 6061 plate to a cast manifold with a wall thickness of around 3/16". I was actually expecting much worse. He did have to do some stick welding at the front of the plate as there wasn't enough room to get the TIG or MIG welder in there. I'm not going to see it and as long as it holds I don't care.

There was actually a bit of warping on the head mating surface from when he welded the space between #1&2 and 5&6 runners due to me breaking through when removing the walls between the runners. I should have supplied him a head to bolt it to while welding back then, but I did not take that into consideration. This time I did. He actually mentioned that he kept snugging the bolts down while welding the plate on. That bit of warp is now gone.

There is much more work to be done on the manifold though... drill and tap the vac/ pressure ports, pressure test the manifold for leaks (and so I don't blow the welds off it.. lol), clean up the welds, grind the intruding plate on # 3 & 4 runners, machine the plate flat, mock up everything on a block and head, decide on a position for the MP90, align the MP90 with the balancer and PS pump pulley, mark mounting holes, drill and tap, make manifold support off the engine mount, have it coated, etc. And that is just on the manifold. Crap.. looks like i might be installing it in the middle of winter. And I still have other projects to work on.

Still waiting on those Brown Dog mount too.

 

[MoparManiac]

Those welds look pretty good to me.

I'd imagine the manifold is the same type of shitty cast aluminum they make the NP transfer cases from. I've welded a few doubler kits now and when you try to start puddling up the cast, it either takes or blows through.

It's a really dirty/porous material no matter how much care you take.

 

[smokinu]

Those welds look pretty good to me.

I'd imagine the manifold is the same type of shitty cast aluminum they make the NP transfer cases from. I've welded a few doubler kits now and when you try to start puddling up the cast, it either takes or blows through.

It's a really dirty/porous material no matter how much care you take.

agreed. im going to a local jc here. and we have had to weld on some cast aluminum parts in class. it really dose suck. and our welds look way worse then his dose. i would not worry about that part failing.