I've lost my mind.. or an MP90 on a stroker

[Talyn]

I think I have officially lost my mind.

About a year ago I've looked for a Magnuson MP90 supercharger on ebay with no success. I put the thought aside but saved the search, which I had forgot about. A little over a week ago ebay sent me an email with a single match. An MP90 in near perfect condition. So, I bid and I won. Funny thing is that a day after the auction ended another on came up exactly the same. It sold for a little less, oh well.

I don't know what it came off of, but the seller stated "It looks to have been re manufactured and never installed". I received it today and it is in like new condition. It looks to have been bolted on to something, but it has no signs of actual use. The rotor's Teflon coating is untouched, no nicks in the rotor tips and no scores in the case. Basically a new supercharger.

This is a 4th Generation MP90. It differs from the 3rd generation M90 in a few ways. It's total height is slightly lower (5.30" vs 5.42"), it has an internal bypass valve, the outlet and inlet are different (inlet can accommodate a TB w/ an adapter plate), and it is said to be more efficient. The bypass actuator can also be positioned on either side in any number of positions.

This isn't something that hasn't been done before. I got the idea from Think!Performance's kit. http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techarticles/engine/131_0803_40l_jeep_xj_cherokee_supercharger_kit/

Also, I later found that Montelibre on JeepStrokers installed one on his stroker:

Think! had a plate bolted to a slightly modified 99+ intake manifold, with some cut outs for the passenger side SC bolts. Montelibre also had a plate bolted to the intake manifold using a bit less modified manifold than Think! but he also made a plate to go between the SC and manifold, making bolting it on a bit easier.

For mounting it my plan is to cut the manifold top off as much as possible with and angle cut toward the driver side. Then weld 1/2" aluminum plate over it. The angle cut is to drop the snout as much as possible to prevent any interference with the hood. Then make an adapter plate (like Montelibre) to bolt to the bottom of the MP 90, which would then bolt to the modified manifold. The manifold will be coated in a heat barrier coating and I will also use a form of adhesive heat wrap, which I am already using on the manifold I have now. I am also planning on borrowing Montelibre's snout support/pulley plate idea, which would support the snout better and give more belt wrap on both the MP90 pulley and steering pump. I am unsure how to attach it to the snout yet, but looking for a good solution. The power steering pump will obviously have to be modified with a remote reservoir and possibly a different high pressure fitting. I am not 100% sure what to do about the pump, but I will cross that road when I get to it. I will obviously have to lose the Volant air tube, but plan on keeping the air box and Amsoil air filter.

The back of the MP90 will get a plate which will house the various vacuum lines and the throttle body. I plan on designing it to fit a 68-70mm throttle body in the future. Also, I plan on drilling and tapping it for water/methanol injection nozzles, which may come later.

For fuel I plan on using the AEM FIC6 with larger injectors. Size is undecided as of now.

This will be going on my 4.6L stroker. It has a static compression ratio of 9.54:1 and a dynamic compression or ratio of 8:1. Because of this I will be shooting for a boost of 4-6psi. I plan on using a 2.8" pulley.

I've put a lot of thought into this so far and discussed it quite a bit with O-gauge. However, two major issues may occur.

1) Will it clear the hood? Montelibre's pulley didn't clear the hood so he has a small hood vent installed which the pulley sticks into. I could do that if it doesn't but I already have GTP hood vents installed which I would like to keep. Maybe I could do a slight bulge. Or I have spoke to Brown Dog about making a set of engine drop brackets. They said it would be no problem. Maybe 1" would be all that is necessary. That would give me a better angle for the front shaft, and worse for the rear. I have an SYE in the rear so that won't be an issue. I could also install a transmission cross member drop as well, keeping it all in line. I'm not too concerned about cooling fan interference as I plan on going to all electric.

2) Ping. My stroker wasn't built around forced induction, so my compression ratio is a bit high. I also have 6* of advance over stock programed into the PCM and another 6* of advance from my CPS relocation mod. For a total of 12* of advance over stock. I can pull back timing by removing the CPS mod and via the FIC. However, there is the possibility that it may still ping under boost. That is why I plan on tapping the throttle body adapter plate for water/methanol nozzles. http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1088823 Hopefully I won't need the water/methanol injection right away and I can run just by pulling timing for now.

3) All blown up.

So besides the SC I will need:
-Injectors
-Aluminum plate
-Bypass actuator
-Larger pulley
-Modified steering pump
-Steering remote reservoir
-various fitting for vacuum
-pulley
-Larger throttle body (future)
-Water/methanol injection (future?)

I'll keep this thread updated as I go. I don't have a time frame, but the biggest hurdle now it cutting down the intake manifold and getting a plate welded on.

Pics of my actual MP90:

Output:

Bypass valve external arm.

Input w/ bypass valve visible:

Case, blue is the bearing lube:

It will be going on this:

 

[Talyn]

Looks like it came off a TRD supercharger kit for a 4.7L 2003-04 4runner, 2000-04 Tundra, 2001-04 Sequoia, 1998-04 Land Cruiser: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/perfo...-4-7l-trd-supercharger-nose-drive-change.html

 

[merdock69]

Congratulations on the awesome find! I look forward to seeing your install progress.

 

[mmag1982]

Talyn an idea for location,

would it work if you mount it vertically like the sprintex setup. the manifold in this case will have to be hacked wide open from its side, but you'll have 2 advantages

1. it will sit lower in the engine bay so no interference issues

2. you will retain the power steering pump reservoir.

question how much does your charger weigh? 30lb or so ?

 

[urban yan]

I may-have played a hand in this madness.

You can't work on someone's SC without wanting one for yourself.
I consider it payback for all the Jeep mods he coaxed me into doing.

 

[urban yan]

Talyn an idea for location,

would it work if you mount it vertically like the sprintex setup. the manifold in this case will have to be hacked wide open from its side, but you'll have 2 advantages

1. it will sit lower in the engine bay so no interference issues

2. you will retain the power steering pump reservoir.

That idea would require a completely custom cast intake manifold while Talyn's setup will be based on an adapter plate for the stock manifold. It won't be easy to make the adapter plate, but it will be cheaper (except for his time that is).

Also, depending how you cast a new intake you could still run into clearance issues with the header or the PS reservoir, and let's not forget everything else around the brake booster. These MP90s are bigger than the Sprintex units; on the plus side they're not from Australia so they should be easier to service.

 

[Talyn]

Talyn an idea for location,

would it work if you mount it vertically like the sprintex setup. the manifold in this case will have to be hacked wide open from its side, but you'll have 2 advantages

1. it will sit lower in the engine bay so no interference issues

2. you will retain the power steering pump reservoir.

question how much does your charger weigh? 30lb or so ?

It would not work that well with the MP90 i have. its too long. There would be an adapter of some sort to move the throttle body from the back to closer to the engine as there would be no room on the rear of the SC for it.

The 99+ intake would not work for this as the runners go all the way out to the side. It would requite an earlier intake, then all you could use would be short sections of the runners. Pretty much a completely custom manifold that would run around $1000.

I'm not really concerned about the power steering reservoir.

The MP90 weight about 23 lbs.

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

Be advised that the PS pump on the Sprintex manifold has been rotated, I would guess as I have not actually measured it, widdershins* approximately 10 degrees or there abouts in order to clear the compressor snout.

You will also note in the photo where the PS reservoir return is located. That reservoir is from the ZJ V8. Side return, not rear return.

The belt routing in both photos looks pretty hairy to me. The photos have very little belt wrap for the PS pump (I am assuming it touches after the compressor) and the idler bearing installed in the second photo is frightening to me. Do like the snout support though...

Belt wrap is something that needs to be considered throughout the project. The compressor will be happiest with a 180 degree wrap. Hard to get done owing to space restrictions. That being said, belt and bearing life will be increased the more wrap you can get. Can't see it in the photp but the Sprintex has no where near a 180 degree wrap.

For those that are wondering why, the greater the belt contact patch, the less belt tension is required and so the lifespan of the engine driven accessories are affected less. And all of the accessories are affected here, not just the compressor. Everything. So, think long term reliability.

And finally, that Sprintex photo I recognize. One of the many installations done in the last year and a half or so. In particular, it is the Boostec Shop Heep. The red box near the hinge is a Perfect Power SMT8-L piggyback.

*widdershins. Anticlockwise. Todays simply useless, arcane english. OK, it is actually middle low German in origin...

 

[Talyn]

You will also note in the photo where the PS reservoir return is located. That reservoir is from the ZJ V8. Side return, not rear return.

I will most likely be going with a remote reservoir. Which pump is still under consideration. Summit shows a bunch of different pumps of the same style (TC) w/ a fitting or nipple for the return. I do not know if the dimensions hold between them all. PSC makes a kit, but $450 and includes a higher pressure and flow pump, which I don't need. The Think! kit used a simple press in fitting to replace the reservoir, which I could not find.

The belt routing in both photos looks pretty hairy to me. The photos have very little belt wrap for the PS pump (I am assuming it touches after the compressor)

I don't believe it does. It probably goes from the compressor to the belt tensioner pulley. But it doesn't have much wrap.

and the idler bearing installed in the second photo is frightening to me. Do like the snout support though...

Aside from the RPM the bearing will be turning, any other reason?

Belt wrap is something that needs to be considered throughout the project. The compressor will be happiest with a 180 degree wrap. Hard to get done owing to space restrictions.

Yes, but there are only so many options. The idler pulley is a good idea, but in order to get the speed down it would need to be larger, and there isn't much room for that.

 

[Talyn]

I don't believe it does. It probably goes from the compressor to the belt tensioner pulley.

I take that back. MonteLibre's does touch the PS pulley on the way back

 

[Talyn]

I don't think there is any real good way to route the belt. The small idler puller (possibly add another) is an idea. However, guessing at a 1.5" or so pulley it would be spinning at 23,000 RPM. Pulling it toward the driver side between the SC and PS pump with a larger pulley is an idea, but that would take up a lot of room as it would need an idler pulley then it would need one to push the return path to the stock tensioner away from the first added pulley.

Running a second belt off the balancer isn't doable either as the fans are in the way.

 

[kastein]

oh wow, I can't wait to see what happens on this. It'll either be awesome, or something's gonna blow up...

Bugged a few of my machinist friends to see if they have a way to get spare machine time, too. I suspect a suitable manifold to mount everything sprintex-style could be constructed from two separate halves on a 4ax or 5ax mill, then bolted together. Thoughts?

 

[Talyn]

A new manifold would be nice. Bolted together with an intercooler inside. Coming up with the flange(s) to the head and intake runner design would be the hard part. However, something of that magnitude is out of my skill set. If you based it on an existing manifold and just used the runners you would want a pre 99 manifold as in the post 99 the runners are in the way. For that reason I am not even sure how much of an angle cut I will be doing.

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

You make a very good point about using the earlier manifold for a side mount installation. Just remember that you are going to need plenum volume. If you look at the pics I took for the 68mm TB thread, you will see all the "extra" space that Sprintex included. In theory, at any rate, one displacement of plenum is considered ideal. While I have not beasured the volume of the Sprintex manifold, I would guestimate it at better than 2 litres in volume. Possibly 3 litres, but I doubt it...

Photos of Manifold:

And:

And another:

These shots do a better job of illustrating the additional internal volume. The "cut out" areas on the bottom of the manifold are for ratchet extension clearance purposes. As it turns out, this manifold is easier to install than a stock one. I believe (but have no measured) that the primary runners at the head are a bit longer than stock. I could be wrong here but I can go measure it if you like.

The hole aft of the compressor mounting location is for the recirculation valve.

If only Sprintex operated like Whipple. Whipple will sell you any component you like out of the catalog. They do not insist you buy a complete kit.

Photos taken at the Boostec shop just prior to installation in the shop Heep.

 

[urban yan]

Speaking of side mounted, here's where Talyn's at with my SC.

 

[bjoehandley]

That does look pretty sweet, especially with the twin cat header, kinda has a vintage speed parts look to it.

 

[WheelinJR]

This is neat.

Can I make a suggestion for you since you're running higher compression? Tune and fuel with E85. Sure it is harder on seals and such, but man it burns so very much cooler than pump.

 

[Talyn]

Thanx for the suggestion. But, no E85 here, and I really don't want to run it. Well, there is one station that is about 40 miles away. Howeve, I wonder if one could replace the methanol in a water-methanol injection system with ethanol.

 

[WheelinJR]

In our area there are only 2 stations, and a drive to both of them.

We fill a drum at a time along with 4 five gallon jugs. I get that it's tough if you're driving alot. That's why we only converted the rally car, and not my daily driver as well. I tell you what though, 30 pounds of boost and gobs of torque from a stock block Mivec 4g63 sure feels nice...

Ehtanol injection from an extra injector controller would be a neat idea.

 

[Talyn]

This is a daily driver, and I use about 10 gallons a week. Although I have thought of putting it up in the winter... salt on roads and all.