How do the alloy axle manu compare (Superior, Warn, Yukon, Dutchman, Moser, etc)?

[XJoachim]

Broke Warn alloys, broke yukon alloys, destroyed detroit and several r&p's in the D30 and finally got a 60 front. Even if the manufacturer warantees the parts, you have to do trail repair and limp home and call the weekend goodbye.

Been there, done that - but never again. Save your money and get a strong axle if you want to run big tires.

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

Earlier, Paul was stating the benefits of the D30. He stated that the D44 hub would be the first weak point. However, if one had a hub kit on the D30 using the 5 on 5.5 kit from Warn, wouldn't the hubs be equal in strength as they are pretty much the same units, right? Also, concerning CTM's or other bushed U-joints, keep in mind that they should be run in conjunction with lockout hubs or they will most likely wear prematurely. Jeff

 

[Big Red]

Good points. I wouldn't put a manual hub kit on the 30 due to the cost of it and you could be so much into a dana 44 at that point. Plus you don't get the other advantages of the 44 like true hi-steer, larger brakes, larger ball joints, stronger housing etc. I think I'm leaning towards Yukon shafts and their new u-joints with the supplied grease gun and their rebuild kit package for my hp 44.

 

[Big Red]

Broke Warn alloys, broke yukon alloys, destroyed detroit and several r&p's in the D30 and finally got a 60 front. Even if the manufacturer warantees the parts, you have to do trail repair and limp home and call the weekend goodbye.

Been there, done that - but never again. Save your money and get a strong axle if you want to run big tires.

But with manual hubs, you can just unlock them and not spin the axles shafts, driveshafts, and r&p whereas on the 30, everything is still spinning.
Troy

 

[Paul S]

Earlier, Paul was stating the benefits of the D30. He stated that the D44 hub would be the first weak point. However, if one had a hub kit on the D30 using the 5 on 5.5 kit from Warn, wouldn't the hubs be equal in strength as they are pretty much the same units, right? Also, concerning CTM's or other bushed U-joints, keep in mind that they should be run in conjunction with lockout hubs or they will most likely wear prematurely. Jeff

I haven't compared Warn 30 hubs to 44 hubs, maybe they are equal. The reason I said that the 44 would break first is because I have only ever heard of one 30 hub breaking (Hinkley's) & I've seen many 44 hubs break. Granted, there are way more 44 hubs on the trail than Wran 30 hubs.
Regarding ujoints, CTM's can be run with unit bearings on a DD with no issues, I don't know about other bushing type joints.
Paul

 

[XJoachim]

But with manual hubs, you can just unlock them and not spin the axles shafts, driveshafts, and r&p whereas on the 30, everything is still spinning.
Troy

But you're still broke and that means i.e. you travelled a few hundred miles just to sit there and watch the others having fun while you're broke and you're in the middle of a trail without 4WD. Does that make sense? :wave:

 

[Big Red]

But you're still broke and that means i.e. you travelled a few hundred miles just to sit there and watch the others having fun while you're broke and you're in the middle of a trail without 4WD. Does that make sense? :wave:

No it sucks, but that's why I bring spare axle shafs, u-joints, steering, driveshafts, etc so I can swap it out if it breaks. Also with the dana 44's manual hubs, you can unlock them and not spin the broken parts in the axle. You can break just about anything if you try hard enough. You strengthen yours axles and you will find another weak link along the way. I'm very easy on my jeeps and don't beat on them and use the gas to get over stuff. With my lockers and rock crawling trails, slow and easy is the best, rarely do you need to hit the gas except sometimes to get a good bump up something.
Troy

 

[XJoachim]

That's the same i posted before i got heavier axles. Now i can really abuse my junk.

No, i'm not jerking, i tried to make my front 30 work but it's impossible. At 35's and up you need a different axle. Stepping up to a front 44 isn't really a big step up and after calculating my 1 year estimate of trail repairs i decided to go big (60 front) which would pay for itself in about 18 months.

 

[Big Red]

That's the same i posted before i got heavier axles. Now i can really abuse my junk.

No, i'm not jerking, i tried to make my front 30 work but it's impossible. At 35's and up you need a different axle. Stepping up to a front 44 isn't really a big step up and after calculating my 1 year estimate of trail repairs i decided to go big (60 front) which would pay for itself in about 18 months.

A hp 44 with nice alloys and strong aftermarket u-joints (CTMs, OX, Super Joints) is a good step up from a hp 44, plus you have a good axle to work with and not feel so bad about putting $ into. A 60/70 is a really nice and beefy combo, but extremely heavy too and with the XJs unibody it needs alot of mods to be able to run those axles and control them. I like the hp44/ford 9" for strength and lightweight. To each his own with this, I do like your rig. I know you must be causing quite a stir in Germany with this thing.

Do you have a link to your XJ build up or some pics. Are you running leafs in the front and coils in the back?
Troy

 

[XJoachim]

Sorry, no write-up and just a few pics at http://www.jeepcherokee.org/modules...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

I'm running 14" Bilstein 9100 rockcrawler coilover in front and rear coils. The best mod i did besides the axle swap was the coilover in front. Can't wait until i have the funds raised to put the coilovers in the rear too, but the engine is burning oil so the stroker buildup has top priority. :wave:

 

[Big Red]

Now that we have a general concensus that Warn and Superior shafts are the best with CTMs and then OX u-joints. What prices have you guys found on them for a hp44 f-150 full width?

 

[Big Red]

I think you're looking at this worng Troy, as it sounds like you want the best axles for the best price, which usually makes sense. But, IMO once you step up to 37's you no longer have the luxury of selecting axles based on price, you need the best, period. I'd only consider Warn or Superior, as they are the only two that are proven. Of these, I'd go with Warn, as they have a lifetime warranty, + I've been running them for several years & havn't broken one yet.
You're HP44 is going to be at it limit with 37's, that is if you go with the best available axles, anything less & you'll be past it's limits.
As to your rear axle, I think putting 37's on 31 spline axles (regardless of brand) is asking for trouble, unless you're only wheeling moderate trails, which begs the question of 37's in the first place.

Not trying to be negative, but depending on your goals/use I think you should give more thought to your build-up.

Paul

Update:

I'm having Ryan (Rawbrown) build my axles with the following:

HP44 front: 5.38 gears, lock rite, and Yukon 4340 alloy shafts with OX u-joints, Blue Torch heavy duty diff cover & Ford 9" rear: 5.43 gears, detroit, 35 spline Yukon 1541 alloy shafts, and Strange Nodular case

I cannot wait to get the 37" mtrs on 8" beadlocks on my XJ, but if I find this too much, I just got a 5--65% 35" mtrs for it. Since I went as low as I did with the gearing and the alloys and 35 spline 9" shafts and nodular housing etc etc, I definately want to run the 37's now. I have to to justify the expense of all the goodies I went with.
Troy

 

[offroadman83]

Can't wait to see this beast when it is done. I wanna do the same to mine, same axles and tires and gears, but mine is a daily driver and if I do it everything has to be ready to throw in there.----------Kyle

 

[Big Red]

Can't wait to see this beast when it is done. I wanna do the same to mine, same axles and tires and gears, but mine is a daily driver and if I do it everything has to be ready to throw in there.----------Kyle

I just got a digital camera, so as soon as I get the jeep back I'll snap some pics and post them.
Troy

 

[Rawbrown]

as off right now, its got a really cool jackstand lift. nice and high...

 

[Roxtar]

I'm a HUGE fan of the Jantz Joints, the real ones he sells, not the Yukons he licensed to Randy's.
They're the same joint but Randy's leaves out the spring and piston that pressurizes the grease, a big selling point to me.
The Jantz joint is the only high end joint I know of that you can grease without removing the tire.

 

[Big Red]

I'm a HUGE fan of the Jantz Joints, the real ones he sells, not the Yukons he licensed to Randy's.
They're the same joint but Randy's leaves out the spring and piston that pressurizes the grease, a big selling point to me.
The Jantz joint is the only high end joint I know of that you can grease without removing the tire.

Why do you like the unpressurized grease feature? I think I greased my OX u-joints without removing the tire. It is very easy though to break the needle grease fitting attachment on the gun. How much are the Jantz joints? Still around $70 a piece? I didn't think they were still being made? So the Jantz are the same 4340 alloy as the Yukon Super Joints? I thought they were just 760 u-joints with bronze sleeves instead of the needle bearings in the caps.

After having the OX u-joints for a little bit, I really like them. I just wish I had the 2nd generation ones that have grease fittings on each cap rather then having to grease the fitting in the center of the body. They are fully rebuileable and easy to work on. They are totally a different direction in u-joint design by not having snap rings and instead having an internal trunion retainer. They are like a puzzle and have a # of pieces.

 

[Oatmeal]

I have had dealings with Dutchman before and would NEVER use their crap again nor would I ever recommend them to anyone............Hans

 

[Big Red]

I have had dealings with Dutchman before and would NEVER use their crap again nor would I ever recommend them to anyone............Hans

What axle shafts did you get from them...how much and what happened?

 

[Oatmeal]

What axle shafts did you get from them...how much and what happened?

Ok, maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges here but, it speaks for their quality control and product (in my opinion) here's the story: I own an early Bronco (as well as a built Toyota p/u and a fairly stock '96 XJ) well, I had a D/L equipped 28 spline 9" rearend that had an appetite for rear axle bearings, they were replaced so many times that the keepers wouldn't stay on the axles anymore and the bearings would work loose eventually (the housings (2) weren't bent either) so, I ordered some new, custom made, high dollar (over $400 for the pair) alloy, tapered roller bearing 28 spline (since I had a 28 spline Detroit) shafts. Well, I ran them for about a year and their 1st trip over the Rubicon (my second) the driver's side shaft literally explodes at the splines in the Little Sluice while idiling in low range (NP435= 6.69 1st gear x 2.33 Dana 20 x 4.11 axle on 35s= conservative gearing) disassemble the third (to get the broken chunk out) and change the broken shaft to a well used (and twisted!) borrowed stocker, when I get home I call them and they tell me I've got too low of gearing, D/L too big a tire....blah, blah, blah so I give them the benefit of the doubt and order (stupid me) a replacement (another almost $200!). Following year, Rubicon, Little Sluice can't get through because, apparently I broke the passenger side shaft before I even got there (didn't even hear it this time) so I drove the rest of the trail (and home) with a broken shaft because I didn't want to tear it apart again (pouring rain). When I got home, I took it all apart (luckly my D/L didn't get ruined) to find out the "new" shaft is severely twisted and was close to breaking so, I stick in my old stockers with tack welded on keepers, throw the Dutchmans in the trash and drive it that way for awhile (daily driver) until my 31 spline Warn full floater came in (paid $475 through a friend at Dick Cepek) and that's the way it is today. Sorry, about the long post but, I still get really mad when ever I hear or see mention of Dutchman Motor Sports. By the way, I gave my old shafts to a buddy of mine and he carries them for spares (they held up way better than DMS's alloy garbage....not even twisted)......P.S. I drive with extreme finnese and don't hammer my trucks!........Hans