How do the alloy axle manu compare (Superior, Warn, Yukon, Dutchman, Moser, etc)?

[Paul S]

I think you're looking at this worng Troy, as it sounds like you want the best axles for the best price, which usually makes sense. But, IMO once you step up to 37's you no longer have the luxury of selecting axles based on price, you need the best, period. I'd only consider Warn or Superior, as they are the only two that are proven. Of these, I'd go with Warn, as they have a lifetime warranty, + I've been running them for several years & havn't broken one yet.
You're HP44 is going to be at it limit with 37's, that is if you go with the best available axles, anything less & you'll be past it's limits.
As to your rear axle, I think putting 37's on 31 spline axles (regardless of brand) is asking for trouble, unless you're only wheeling moderate trails, which begs the question of 37's in the first place.

Not trying to be negative, but depending on your goals/use I think you should give more thought to your build-up.

Paul

 

[Paul S]

Spend the most money and buy the best parts.


I hate trail repairs.

Damn, I was too slow.

Paul

 

[Big Red]

Good points Paul. Man I though the hp 44/ford 9" were very premium axles with what you can run some good size tires like up to 38.5" tsl sx tires or so. How badly did I max out my hp 30 with 297 u-joints with my 35's? It worked good for me. It's too bad dana 44 doesn't come with bigger u-joints, is that their inherent downfall as far as running some 37-39" tires on them. I know the XJ design has its own limits where I believe 35's are prefect for its wheelbase, but now with my heavier duty axle I really want to run my 37's. Does the dana 60 range really take off from 38"+? And the 44 end at 36's? How about the standard 30 or hp 30 like 33's?
I see and read about guys many times running 40"+ tires on a dana 44 to get their 14 bolts off the ground in the back. What do you think superior 4340 alloy shafts and CTMs are good up to in a hp 44, maybe 38.5 TSL SX tires? I know driving style has alot to do with it and watching not to hit the gas pedal hard when you have them turned, hoping on rocks, etc.
Troy

 

[Big Red]

You're HP44 is going to be at it limit with 37's, that is if you go with the best available axles, anything less & you'll be past it's limits.
As to your rear axle, I think putting 37's on 31 spline axles (regardless of brand) is asking for trouble, unless you're only wheeling moderate trails, which begs the question of 37's in the first place.

Paul

Thanks Paul for the comments, you have some good pointers. Why do you think 37's would be past the capabilites of a 31 spline ford 9"? How about with alloy 4340 shafts? I know that with a ford 9" you can get 35 or 40 spline alloy shafts which should extend its capabilities to about a 40"tire or so I'd think. Also the r&p of this axle is very strong and has great contact. The guy I bought the CJ from towed me in my YJ over 4 miles or so of Fordyce and many times got bound up on the 37"mtrs I now have with stock shafts in a reg dana 44/ford 9" 31 spline with 5.89 gears and spools f/r.
Troy

 

[Paul S]

Good points Paul. Man I though the hp 44/ford 9" were very premium axles with what you can run some good size tires like up to 38.5" tsl sx tires or so. How badly did I max out my hp 30 with 297 u-joints with my 35's? It worked good for me.
Troy

IMO the HP44 is a great axle for 37's, but like I said, it has to be built with the best junk available. I'd consider 37's its limit.
Your rear 9 can be built many ways. With alloy 31 spline axles it's good for 35's, with 35 spline axles it's good for just about any size tire.
I run 31 spline alloy's & have twisetd the splines & bent the flange, that's on 35's. I know of at least 3 other 31 spline alloy's that gave up under 35's.
As to your HP30 & 35's, how much did you push it & did you have chromo shafts? An HP30 with Warn axles & CTM's is very well matched to 35's.

Paul

 

[Big Red]

IMO the HP44 is a great axle for 37's, but like I said, it has to be built with the best junk available. I'd consider 37's its limit.
Your rear 9 can be built many ways. With alloy 31 spline axles it's good for 35's, with 35 spline axles it's good for just about any size tire.
I run 31 spline alloy's & have twisetd the splines & bent the flange, that's on 35's. I know of at least 3 other 31 spline alloy's that gave up under 35's.
As to your HP30 & 35's, how much did you push it & did you have chromo shafts? An HP30 with Warn axles & CTM's is very well matched to 35's.

Paul

Is the weight to the rear the reason why the ford 31 splines alloy shafts fail even on 35's while the hp 44 30 spline shafts should be fine? I ran stock 297 shafts with an arb and 4.56 gears and a xj dana 44 with a full detroit with 4.56 gears with no breakage on 35"mtrs. I seen why the 44 shafts fail like the 30 shafts in stock form, the 44 shafts are so necked down in some areas leading them to break. Is it possible for aftermarket manufactures to make larger than 760 u-joints for the dana 44? I know that CTM are really beefy and have such premium stuff into them, they don't need to be bigger I guess.

Do you need to run a manual hub kit with the Warn axles to run the full inner and outers? I assume the inners without, the i&o with the manual hub kit.
Troy

 

[Weasel]

Warn or Superior. Of either the edge of which is better is/have been debated and probably to close to call.

 

[Big Red]

Warn or Superior. Of either the edge of which is better is/have been debated and probably to close to call.

Do you know the ball park prices of the 2 and what warranties they include? I got a quote of $1,060 for the hp 44 shafts with CTM delivered to my door. I read that the Warns have a life time warranty, but what's the fine print. Can you run 35-37's on them? Do you know their cost? Would you need to run CTMs in them as well? I hear they have very hard material that will kill 760 u-joints or stock 297 spicer stuff.
Troy

 

[Weasel]

For pirces best bet would be to check the vendor section of Pirate4x4.com. Warns to have a lifetime but only if the u joint doesn't break. I think Sups have a similar warrenty. As for joints, depends if your breaking 760 yet. If so you could try the Longfield ones and FamerMatt has used them with sucess or jump straight to CTM's and not worry about it. Should be able to run 35-37 on either, but how we wheel most of us can run 36's n stock stuff and never break.

 

[Big Red]

For pirces best bet would be to check the vendor section of Pirate4x4.com. Warns to have a lifetime but only if the u joint doesn't break. I think Sups have a similar warrenty. As for joints, depends if your breaking 760 yet. If so you could try the Longfield ones and FamerMatt has used them with sucess or jump straight to CTM's and not worry about it. Should be able to run 35-37 on either, but how we wheel most of us can run 36's n stock stuff and never break.

I know I cannot cut corners. :laugh3: If you want the warranty on the axles and also peace of mind on not busting u-joints than the CTMs look like they are the winners. I'm so confused. Maybe I'll just keep my 35's and breathe easier with my new axles. I though I was going to be able to run up to 38.5" tsl sx tires with alloy shafts f/r. I wouldn't run this on a xj, but thought the axles could take it. All you hear in the 4x4 world is (dana 44 this or ford 9" that). :laugh3:
Troy

 

[Big Red]

You guys are making think I should keep my rev 30 with my arb and just get some alloy axles for it on my 35's. Why is the rev 30 such a "turd" as many people say if the standard or hp 44 doesn't give you much more capacity? I know it has bigger brakes, better ball joints, lock out hubs, lower gearing possibilities, but you still really cannot run huge tires on it either.

What the capabilities of a hp 30 with Superior shafts and CTM vs a hp 44 with the same thing? Can you run inner and outer alloys without doing the manual hub conversion on the hp 30?
Troy

 

[XJ_ranger]

how much are you realy saving by going with the 760's instead of the CTMs? XHD D44 U-joints according to the website you posted were like $45 for the pair of D44 u-joints... how much more or less can they cost? that seems reasonable to me...

 

[Big Red]

how much are you realy saving by going with the 760's instead of the CTMs? XHD D44 U-joints according to the website you posted were like $45 for the pair of D44 u-joints... how much more or less can they cost? that seems reasonable to me...

CTMs are like $160-175/ea and the 760 Spicers are about $22/ea. All the manufactures void the warranty if the u-joint takes out the axle I believe. Is the Longfield good enough to hold up? I think they are about $75/ea I believe. The OX is also a player, but the company seems to move around alot and are hard to get cust serv I hear.
Troy

 

[Paul S]

You guys are making think I should keep my rev 30 with my arb and just get some alloy axles for it on my 35's. Why is the rev 30 such a "turd" as many people say if the standard or hp 44 doesn't give you much more capacity? I know it has bigger brakes, better ball joints, lock out hubs, lower gearing possibilities, but you still really cannot run huge tires on it either.

What the capabilities of a hp 30 with Superior shafts and CTM vs a hp 44 with the same thing? Can you run inner and outer alloys without doing the manual hub conversion on the hp 30?
Troy

The 30 is only a turd on the internet, in the real world it's a great axle for 35's & the toughest trails CA has to offer.

From an old post:

Re: For you Dana 30 haters, couple ?'s

Ok, let’s look objectively, cough, at the pros & cons a built HP30 to a built HP44. By built, I mean Warn Axles, CTMS, best steering options available, etc…
Weakest weak link: D44 hub. score 1 for the 30
2nd weakest weak link: D44 stub: score 2 for the 30
3rd weak link would probably be a CTM or D30 stub, but at this point things are pretty unlikely to break.
Ground clearance: score 3 for the 30. This will be argued as a con since it comes at the expense of R&P strength, but R&P failures are so uncommon it would be disingenuous to consider this a con.
Weight: D30 wins this one. This will be argued as a con since it comes at the expense of housing strength, but in the real world this is a non-issue. I have never seen a 30 housing bend, nor have I ever seen housing deflection contribute to R&P failure.
Ball joints: Score 1 for the 44. But in reality the difference is negligible. Both will pop equally easily if you drive on a broken axle, & both will last many years under on/off-road use (on-road use is obviouse, but added for Nay).
Brakes: 44 wins this one, unless the 30 is upgraded to WJ knuckles & brakes, in which case I believe the 30 wins, although not by enough to make a difference.
Track/width: the 44 has infinite options, but since this post is related to California wheeling, this is not a pro, as the stock 30 width is perfect for CA. Anyone that thinks building a full width 44 for CA trails is an upgrade needs more seat time.
Steering: the 44 takes this one big time. A built to the hilt 30 still doesn’t have the option of true hi-steer knuckles. This alone outweighs all other pros & cons IMO.
As to some other talked about options: I wouldn’t trade a built HP30 for a built LP44, no matter how built the LP44 is. Nor would I trade a built HP30 for a built HP60. The HP60 gives up too much in added weight, lose of ground clearance, & cannot be built to stock width (without going to coilovers).
Conclusion: a fully built HP44 is a great upgrade, anything else is one step forward, two steps back.
All of the above is based on running 35’s & CA wheeling.
Paul

 

[JnJ]

All very good points, but what about gearing options?

The 30 is only a turd on the internet, in the real world it's a great axle for 35's & the toughest trails CA has to offer.

From an old post:

Re: For you Dana 30 haters, couple ?'s

Ok, let’s look objectively, cough, at the pros & cons a built HP30 to a built HP44. By built, I mean Warn Axles, CTMS, best steering options available, etc…
Weakest weak link: D44 hub. score 1 for the 30
2nd weakest weak link: D44 stub: score 2 for the 30
3rd weak link would probably be a CTM or D30 stub, but at this point things are pretty unlikely to break.
Ground clearance: score 3 for the 30. This will be argued as a con since it comes at the expense of R&P strength, but R&P failures are so uncommon it would be disingenuous to consider this a con.
Weight: D30 wins this one. This will be argued as a con since it comes at the expense of housing strength, but in the real world this is a non-issue. I have never seen a 30 housing bend, nor have I ever seen housing deflection contribute to R&P failure.
Ball joints: Score 1 for the 44. But in reality the difference is negligible. Both will pop equally easily if you drive on a broken axle, & both will last many years under on/off-road use (on-road use is obviouse, but added for Nay).
Brakes: 44 wins this one, unless the 30 is upgraded to WJ knuckles & brakes, in which case I believe the 30 wins, although not by enough to make a difference.
Track/width: the 44 has infinite options, but since this post is related to California wheeling, this is not a pro, as the stock 30 width is perfect for CA. Anyone that thinks building a full width 44 for CA trails is an upgrade needs more seat time.
Steering: the 44 takes this one big time. A built to the hilt 30 still doesn’t have the option of true hi-steer knuckles. This alone outweighs all other pros & cons IMO.
As to some other talked about options: I wouldn’t trade a built HP30 for a built LP44, no matter how built the LP44 is. Nor would I trade a built HP30 for a built HP60. The HP60 gives up too much in added weight, lose of ground clearance, & cannot be built to stock width (without going to coilovers).
Conclusion: a fully built HP44 is a great upgrade, anything else is one step forward, two steps back.
All of the above is based on running 35’s & CA wheeling.
Paul

 

[Weasel]

Also on the steering what about full hydro?

 

[Paul S]

All very good points, but what about gearing options?

Since I limited the HP30 to 35's, deeper gearing than the 30 offers isn't an issue.

Paul

 

[Paul S]

Also on the steering what about full hydro?

I don't see why you couldn't run full hydro on a 30, but I don't know why you would want to with little old 35's.

Paul

 

[Big Red]

I think I might keep my hp 30/rear 44 than and sell the hp 44/9" I just got. I thought I would have much better capabilities that you have outlined Paul. Can you run alloy inner and outers with CTM or Longfield u-joints without needing to run manual hubs on the 30? If so I think I will just get some alloys and breathe a little easier with them. I think the xj dana 44 rear is fine with my 35's in stock form.

I have a spare set of axle shafts front and rear anyways, actually 2 set for my front, but my bro just got a 91'xj too and runs 35" Baja Claw bias so we need a few sets between us. He is running his front open with those tires with 4.88 gears and a early bronco ford 9"with alloy shafts spool 4.88 gears and 5 on 4.5 conv.
Troy
Troy

 

[JnJ]

Since I limited the HP30 to 35's, deeper gearing than the 30 offers isn't an issue.

Paul

Point taken. Though, I ran 4.88s with 35s and would have liked 5.13s.