Rusty '96 - I'm in love with it!

[bacelaw]

It's a matter of opinion.

And, again, investing many hundreds of dollars, and/or many hours of time, to do the "right" fix on a ten-year-old car simply isn't worth it to many folks.

Den

100% in agreement...to do it "right" would prob. require a new complete floor pan from a southern jeep, welded in as it was in the factory....THAT would take more like a thousand dollars, and tons of work your average do-it-yourselfer is not prepared to do.

However, after researching, i found that there is a happy medium between a "right way" restoration, and a complete half-ass job....This middle ground is the route i'm taking...

As far as expense, rust management isn't pricey - just very labor intensive...sheet metal is cheap, screws are cheap, spray cans are cheap, roofing tar, the only real expense is the herculiner and undercoat...all told my fix will go nearly $200.00....and definately hold off the rust for five years...then, maybe ill address it again.

or, sell the 250k mi jeep to someone to run into the ground...

 

[Rick Anderson]

It's a matter of opinion.

To many folks (hell, even me!)... losing a 10-year-old vehicle to rust is just a part of the gameplan. In his day it was worse... GETTING a car to last ten years before it rusted to pieces was nearly impossible.

And, again, investing many hundreds of dollars, and/or many hours of time, to do the "right" fix on a ten-year-old car simply isn't worth it to many folks.

100% valid point,

BUT, cutting back the rust, triming a piece of metal, and sealing it with some seam sealer and paint is only a couple of extra hours and probably $35. And that repair could last another 10 years as oppossed to only 1 bad winter for just slapping piece of metal over a rusted hole with some screws.

Worth it IMHO, you don't have to totally redo the floorpan and make it better than it came originally from the factory, but you can do a little better job than a $3 band aid that realistically might only last a matter of months. There all sorts of options inbetween and its up to individual how much time/money its worth in doing the job.

 

[highhilleer]

oh yeah - one more question - with the thicker guage steel, can you get aluminum rivets that will hold forever?

Little problem with the galvanic series and corrosion of dissimilar metals. You would be setting up a "battery". Steel pop rivits are available, if you decide to go the rivit route.

 

[Rick Anderson]

Little problem with the galvanic series and corrosion of dissimilar metals. You would be setting up a "battery". Steel pop rivits are available, if you decide to go the rivit route.

Also, bending and flexing of the body is probably going to pull the two pieces of metal back a forth a bit, putting a lot of shear force on the rivet, with two thin sheets of metal along it puling and pushing in oppossite directions, like a scissors.

Steel is a lot harder than aluminum, that shear is probably going to dig into the aluminum and loosen up the rivet. A steel rivet will probably last much longer, I imagine a steel rivet is designed to connect steel and is probably harder than typical mild steel, to fight that shear action.

 

[highhilleer]

I put "if you elect to go this way" into my post. Since these are unibody cars, my gut feeling is that riviting in floor pans is not a good idea! May be something like Fusor would be a decent alternative to welding?

 

[Rick Anderson]

I don't know, it might, but I'm inclined to believe that riveting in patches into the floorpan that arleady has existing holes can only improve its strength and return it closer to original strength. If the body ridigity seems fine with the holes, riveting patches won't make the body less ridigit.

True welding would probably be stronger and may return the floorpan to original strength, or very close to it.

BUT, I'm pretty sure the floorpan is a pretty low stress item. Especially considering people have experience a signficant amount of rust-out of the floorpan with very little symptoms of bending and flexing of the body, as compared to the rust out of the bigger structural members, like the crossmembers and rails.

 

[bacelaw]

Alright - here's a couple pictures of my progress...

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g91/mikeybb/patchingrust004.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g91/mikeybb/patchingrust003.jpg

here is the before shot:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g91/mikeybb/floor002.jpg


I filled the seams with roofing tar sealer that comes in tube for caulking gun.

used high quality sheet metal screws - the cheapo ones break off when trying to screw into the sub-frame.

the white is rustoleum metal primer...used that beneath the vehicle also.

beneath the vehicle is also getting a coat of hardened metal rustoleum, not undercoat (ive heard it holds more moisture and rust than it prevents...)

Heres a question: now that i've cut away the carpet, i hear what sounds like the fuel pump? it's like a quiet buzzing sound coming from back there, i can hear it from inside and outside the car when you get down by the tank - any thoughts??

 

[Rick Anderson]

Bravo, its looks very good.

BUT, you didn't show us the prep work. Did you cut the rot out and treat any remaining surface rust?

The sealant is applied over the entire surface between the patch and floorpan? If you have gaps or air inbetween the two pieces of metal thats a place for water to get in and start rot again.

It looks good, put a couple of coats of paint over the primer and it could last several years or more, lots longer than just a piece of tin screwed down over it. What was the investment? less than $50 and a couple of hours? I think it will be worth it.

Hardened Metal Rustoleum?? Whats that? is it different than regular rustoluem paint? Its not Metallic Rustoluem, I think that paint is NOT recommended for outdoor use.

Your probably just hearing the fuel pump. They usually make that sound and barely audible, only when your near it and its qiet do you hear it.

 

[bacelaw]

Bravo, its looks very good.

BUT, you didn't show us the prep work. Did you cut the rot out and treat any remaining surface rust?

thanks!! yes, i cut away all the rotted parts...treated the mating surface with primer - cut a piece to fit, put roofing tar on seals, and screwed down...so, there really isn't any air/space in the seams, that roofing tar is the balls.

the tar is sticky, and when screwed down fills in everything.

It looks good, put a couple of coats of paint over the primer and it could last several years or more, lots longer than just a piece of tin screwed down over it. What was the investment? less than $50 and a couple of hours? I think it will be worth it.

yeah, very cheap fix, yet very labor intensive...here's a tip - get some legitimate sheet metal screws - cheapo's will not get through into the sub-frame.

I heard bad things about undercoat...so yeah, im priming the underside and applying an outdoor rustoleum - good call on checking if it's intended for outdoor use!

Rustoleum is great - after primer, it really seals, protects, and inhibits rust for sure...

One more note - i did NOT lower the gas tank, no holes above it....but it really would be best to lower it, grind the floor from underneath and treat that area....i just filled up, so not going to happen.

Rick - post some pics when you start/finish!

 

[Rick Anderson]

I heard bad things about undercoat...so yeah, im priming the underside and applying an outdoor rustoleum - good call on checking if it's intended for outdoor use!

Rustoleum is great - after primer, it really seals, protects, and inhibits rust for sure...

I hope it wasn't just from me, because I did make a comment like that during this thread. That was just my general observation about the undercoat on my XJ, I really don't know what the general consensus on undercoat is.

Any other opinions about typical undercoat? CAN IT LET MOISTURE PAST IT AND TRAP IT?

Personally, I'm considering getting truck bedliner or herculiner to paint the underside.

The idea of the undercoating is to protect the paint from chipping from stones being thrown up under vehicle. Just tough paint under the car may chip and rust could start. I'm hoping the bedliner/herculiner will give me that rubbery chip proof protection and not let moisture past, like it appeared the typical undercoating on my XJ did.

I've seen differing opinions on using Rustoleum on cars, some people believe you should only use CAR Paint on cars, thats designed for Cars. IT is TRUE, that paints can be incompatible, so you should be careful about mixing existing car paints with Rustoleum and new car paint with Rustoleum, BUT IN OUR CASE; we should be OK, we are painting bare metal or roughing up the existing paint and then putting down a primer designed for the rustoleum, so it should hold up.

For all the Nay sayers about Rustoleum on cars, I ask, where can I easily find a cheap paint, that is tougher than Rustoleum, and designed for a car, that I don't need expensive professional equipment to apply it?

One more note - i did NOT lower the gas tank, no holes above it....but it really would be best to lower it, grind the floor from underneath and treat that area....i just filled up, so not going to happen.

Rick - post some pics when you start/finish!

I've dropped the gas tank, although the undercoating is pretty messed up in that area, I didn't find any rust or holes.

I've been really busy lately, hopefully I'll post some pics this weekend.

 

[bacelaw]

I

I've seen differing opinions on using Rustoleum on cars, some people believe you should only use CAR Paint on cars, thats designed for Cars. IT is TRUE, that paints can be incompatible, so you should be careful about mixing existing car paints with Rustoleum and new car paint with Rustoleum, BUT IN OUR CASE; we should be OK, we are painting bare metal or roughing up the existing paint and then putting down a primer designed for the rustoleum, so it should hold up.

honestly, with a few coats of primer, and then a topcoat - it really look indestructable...ill be interested to see how it holds up through a winter.

I just pulled the carpet about the muffler - my entire backseat, passenger side, foot area is gone! no rusted metal, just gone!

however, if anyone is in the boston area - i found a source for 4'x8' sheet metal for $41.13...that's cheap - JFreeman in Dorchester, MA

 

[bacelaw]

well, here are the latest...

that driver's side cargo area was worse than originally expected.

all i did today was cutting/grinding for a few hours.


before the cutting/grinding:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g91/mikeybb/floor006.jpg


After cutting:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g91/mikeybb/patchingrust005.jpg

I shot the gas tank with a little primer too, just for kicks cause it had some surface rust.

for those of you just tuning in: the goal of this project is a 4-5 year rust fix...nothing more, nothing less.

 

[dizzymac]

What guage is the sheet metal? I found 20 ga for about the same price.
I also found front and rear FULL floor pans for $165 /$145, but Truck Freight shipping is $125 per panel, I have e-mailed company to see if local pick is an option, they are here in NH on the coast. 1 hour 45 min for me, about the same for you. I'll keep everyone posted,if local p/u is ok, it would be a big savings to many of us out there suffering form "carpet cancer".

 

[bacelaw]

What guage is the sheet metal? I found 20 ga for about the same price.
I also found front and rear FULL floor pans for $165 /$145, but Truck Freight shipping is $125 per panel, I have e-mailed company to see if local pick is an option, they are here in NH on the coast. 1 hour 45 min for me, about the same for you. I'll keep everyone posted,if local p/u is ok, it would be a big savings to many of us out there suffering form "carpet cancer".

wow! DEFINATELY keep me posted, in 5 years, when my patches are rusting out again, it would be awesome to have some full panels...and i'd drive up there for them for sure!

the carpet really sucks, that rubber padding was wet on mine, and we hadn't had any wet weather in weeks.

the sheet metal i'm using is 20 or 22gauge.....the place in dorchester only had aluminum, no steel - do you have a source for 4x8' sheet metal?

 

[dizzymac]

Isaacson Steel Inc.
40 Jericho Rd
Berlin, NH. 03570
603-752-2044 ext. #6
800-752-2045 ext. #6
Its about 3 1/2 -4 hours from you, about 2 from me. If I don't get a good answer from the floor pan ppl. I will be going up to Isaacsons, I talked to them on the phone and they were real helpful. I'll keep you posted as to when/if I am going.

 

[bacelaw]

Isaacson Steel Inc.
40 Jericho Rd
Berlin, NH. 03570
603-752-2044 ext. #6
800-752-2045 ext. #6
Its about 3 1/2 -4 hours from you, about 2 from me. If I don't get a good answer from the floor pan ppl. I will be going up to Isaacsons, I talked to them on the phone and they were real helpful. I'll keep you posted as to when/if I am going.

ouch, 2 hours for a piece of steel? i cant believe how difficult it is to find sheet metal in large sheets around here!

home depot only appears to sell a 2' square piece, 22gauge and 16 gauge only.

i'll make some phonecalls this week as well and see what i can dig up - maybe a place on the north shore would be perfect for both of us!

 

[bacelaw]

Here's a slight update...the passenger side floor after cutting out a section of the bad stuff...

i'll post my patch in the next couple weeks, again, not perfect, but my fix should last 5 years+.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g91/mikeybb/IM000635.jpg

check it out

 

[BSH]

Hey, bacelaw - did you ever get the rest of your floor fixed? What did you do with the rusty cross piece where the front seat bolts in?

 

[bacelaw]

the floor is fixed, and hopefully will outlast the jeep....i'll post a couple finished product pics when i get the chance.

i went the cheap route, and easy route - and it was still a major undertaking.

but now i've got a strong floor, it's all herculined...i wasn't surgical, didnt get every ounce of rust - but it's definately better. and that herculiner stuff is tough as nails.

 

[aiinny]

Yes, learning to weld is fun. You get "stuck" at first and like Matthew said by the time you are done you will have no fear. You could weld anything. I guess we all got "stuck" and ground off the rod and got stuck again and again ground off the rod till you learn how close not to go.Think positive and use a light, light touch and your beads if you are beading will come out with the flux seperating form the well. Run your welding rod like you were touching a beautiful body. Be gentle.