Official Ron Paul 2012 Thread

[ocean_jet]

oH MY GAWD!!!!!!

Not a business owner either I suppose.

If you were, as I am, you'd understand how ridiculously ignorant that statement is.....

nice work!

:clap:

Facts are the facts... there is ~$2.5 trillion dollars in the hands of businesses ready to be invested in capital expansion, and increased hiring.

The demand isn't there.




Your individual situation doesn't extrapolate to the rest of the nation. The money is there waiting for the demand to catch up. Just because your business is cash strapped doesn't mean the rest of the nation is in the same position.

Expand your perspective a bit... $2.5 trillion sitting idle doesn't lie.

 

[420BlackXJ]

Supply and demand, simple concept.

Since high corporate tax rates and excessive government regulation has pushed manufacturing jobs out of the country, the current US economy is based on consumption and not production. The US has a trade deficit of over $400,000,000,000.00

This is the root issue. Prove to me how a tax increase will solve this?
http://americaneconomicalert.org/ticker_home.asp

I swear you make up these "facts" as you need them. Quit pulling shit out your ass and expect everybody to accept it.

Cheap labor overseas and greedy investors are what pushed jobs out of the US.

 

[ocean_jet]

Deloitte conducted a survey of these firms earlier this year as part of a report titled "Mid-market perspectives: 2011 report on America's economic engine" (.pdf). The mid-market segment consists of firms with annual revenues between $50 million and $1 billion.

The segment is responsible for employing tens of millions of people, largely in the U.S. -- 53% have no workforce outside the country and just 18% of theses companies have more than 25% of their employees based abroad.

Here are the result for biggest obstacles to growth for mid-market companies, according to the 527 Deloitte surveyed:

The company that I work for has a workforce of approx. 2100 and is hiring, as well as expanding our network footprint.

So, XJEEPER's company is expanding, depspite a 35% tax rate.

The company I work for is embarking on a multi-billion dollar capital expansion over the next several years, despite a 35% corporate tax rate.

Mid Market companies do not mention high taxes at all as an impediment to growth.



The top two are demand related metrics.... just like I have been saying.

When the demand returns, the cash is there for the capital expansion.


High corporate taxes are not an impediment to expansion in today's economy.

 

[XJEEPER]

I work with SMB owners every day, you know, the folks who:

• Represent 99.7 percent of all employer firms.
• Employ just over half of all private sector employees.
• Pay 44 percent of total U.S. private payroll.
• Have generated 64 percent of net new jobs over the past 15 years.
• Create more than half of the nonfarm private gross domestic product (GDP).
• Hire 40 percent of high tech workers (such as scientists, engineers, and computer programmers).

What financial challenges are preventing ALL of them from expanding their businesses?

Increasing taxes
Increasing payroll taxes
Increasing healthcare costs (unknowns due to Obamacare)
Increasing risk mitigation/insurance costs due
Increasing regulations
Increasing material and energy costs

If we want to see employment growth and economic stimulation from the market sector that provides the majority of all non-governmental jobs in the nation, the government needs to swiftly enact policy to get these roadblocks out of the way.

 

[ocean_jet]

With bonus depreciation laws for 2011, how can any business claim high taxes are stopping expansion this year?

IRS allowed 100% of capital investment to be taken as a tax deduction for all of 2011 and most of the end of 2010. It will continue through 2012 at a 50% clip.



Beezil, have you been investing capital in 2011 to take advantage of that huge tax break?

 

[ocean_jet]

What financial challenges are preventing ALL of them from expanding their businesses?

Increasing taxes
Increasing payroll taxes
Increasing healthcare costs (unknowns due to Obamacare)
Increasing risk mitigation/insurance costs due
Increasing regulations
Increasing material and energy costs

So, you're telling me that generally the SMB's you work with, they have a back log of orders they cannot fill because they lack capacity? Or are turning away business because they don't have the productive capacity to serve new clients or customers?

 

[ocean_jet]

It's demand... not high tax rates:

Twenty-eight percent of small business owners reported that their top business problem is still poor sales. In fact, poor sales has been the top business problem for small business owners for the past three years, according to NFIB research. The net percentage of owners expecting better business conditions in six months was a negative 22 percent, up 4 points from August, but 32 percentage points lower than January. Not seasonally adjusted, 38 percent expect deterioration and only 9 percent expect improvement.

"An increase in consumer spending would be the best imaginable stimulus right now, not gimmicky Washington policies," said NFIB Chief Economist Bill Dunkelberg. "Promising temporary tax cuts financed by permanent income tax increases will not help many small business owners who pay taxes based on personal-not corporate-tax rates. The key to economic recovery is restoring the confidence of consumers; only then will small businesses begin to see the sales they need to expand. If consumers fear the path we are on, then 'less is more' policies that reduce the size of government will increase confidence."

http://mobile.eweek.com/c/a/Midmark...dence-Sees-Modest-September-Gain-NFIB-817794/

 

[XJEEPER]

I swear you make up these "facts" as you need them. Quit pulling shit out your ass and expect everybody to accept it.

Cheap labor overseas and greedy investors are what pushed jobs out of the US.

Speaking of pulling something out......I suggest you call for backup, or have a portal installed in your navel for navigation purposes.

I even provided a link to the info source, of which you again chose to ignore........

Here's another, so you can ignore it too.

http://americaneconomicalert.org/view_art.asp?Prod_ID=4679

 

[Boatwrench]

hey guys,

Can we get this back on topic. Ron Paul.

We (I'm guilty too) of running down the rabbit hole of the economic woes facing our country and the world.

Thanks,
Tom

 

[XJEEPER]

hey guys,

Can we get this back on topic. Ron Paul.

We (I'm guilty too) of running down the rabbit hole of the economic woes facing our country and the world.

Thanks,
Tom

Who?

:eyes:

 

[Matt S.]

Last night kinda bugged me. The candidates made themselves (mostly) look like fools.

Today, every article I read said something along these lines...

"XYZ person lied about ABC, in fact almost everyone needed fact checking last night. Except for Ron Paul (who we all know will never be elected) who remained consistant and honest."

WTF is up with journalists directing public opinion. Why cant they state the facts fairly and let people make their own damn mind up!?



Im having lunch with my 80 year old Grandmother tomorrow. She wants to talk about politics. Our last conversation about this was 4 months ago and she LOVED bachman... I convinced her that she should look at cain or paul. She said she would never vote for an African American because Obama did so bad.

So now, I get to have lunch with a woman who talks politics with all her friends, and try to get her to understand Paul is truly the best vote. Hopefully she will take it home and to her group of elders.


Anyone want to save me the time searching and get me the top 10 reasons Paul is best for old people? Seriously. All she watches is FOX news and god knows that is accurate

 

[ocean_jet]

Ron Paul Is…The Senior Citizens' Best Friend

Sponsor of Social Security Preservation Act (HR 219)
Cosponsor of Earnings limit repeal (enacted)
Current sponsor of Repeal Clinton tax-hike on Social Security benefits
According to the National Taxpayers Union, Ron Paul is one of only seven members who did not vote to spend even one penny of Social Security benefits on other programs
One of two members to vote AGAINST "changing" (cutting) the COLA formula
Opposes any effort to allow the government to invest Social Security funds in the market
100% rating from United Seniors Association

http://ronpaulforcongress.com/html/ronpaulis.html

 

[Beezil]

With bonus depreciation laws for 2011, how can any business claim high taxes are stopping expansion this year?

IRS allowed 100% of capital investment to be taken as a tax deduction for all of 2011 and most of the end of 2010. It will continue through 2012 at a 50% clip.



Beezil, have you been investing capital in 2011 to take advantage of that huge tax break?

Yep

Just spent $245,000 on equipment today

Ohio and alabama

Just another simple transaction that wont add any jobs as machine tool manufacturers continue to adopt lean practices and do more with less

But somehow i owe the government a larger portion of the revenue ive generated by taking risks, being innovative, working hard, contributing to gdp and reducing waste.

Sure, lets turn corps upside down, take their money and give it to the zero liability, non-productive recipiant to whom i owe nothing

Next months reading assignment:

Atlas shrugged

See you in colorado, Dr. Floyd

 

[Beezil]

Who?

:eyes:

The crackpot

 

[ocean_jet]

Yep

Just spent $245,000 on equipment today

Awesome. So, you (most likely) get to deduct that from your corporation's 2011 tax bill.

So, your corporation's effective tax rate should be well below the 34-39% statutory rate?

But somehow i owe the government a larger portion of the revenue ive generated by taking risks, being innovative, working hard, contributing to gdp and reducing waste.

A larger share? larger than what?

(Actually, by taking the risk of spending the 245k, your corporation should get to deduct that from your taxable income this year, and pay a much smaller portion of your revenue this year.)

Sure, lets turn corps upside down, take their money and give it to the zero liability, non-productive recipiant to whom i owe nothing

Who said anything about
-turning corporations upside down?
-giving money to a non-productive recipient?


Or, is this response intended for a different post that you neglected to quote?

 

[Darky]

Last night kinda bugged me. The candidates made themselves (mostly) look like fools.

Today, every article I read said something along these lines...

"XYZ person lied about ABC, in fact almost everyone needed fact checking last night. Except for Ron Paul (who we all know will never be elected) who remained consistant and honest."

WTF is up with journalists directing public opinion. Why cant they state the facts fairly and let people make their own damn mind up!?



Im having lunch with my 80 year old Grandmother tomorrow. She wants to talk about politics. Our last conversation about this was 4 months ago and she LOVED bachman... I convinced her that she should look at cain or paul. She said she would never vote for an African American because Obama did so bad.

So now, I get to have lunch with a woman who talks politics with all her friends, and try to get her to understand Paul is truly the best vote. Hopefully she will take it home and to her group of elders.


Anyone want to save me the time searching and get me the top 10 reasons Paul is best for old people? Seriously. All she watches is FOX news and god knows that is accurate

I watched the "highlights" of the debate and good lord, they looked like a bunch of jacka**es. I mean seriously, Mitt and Perry?

MR"You're talking over me"
RP"Yeah?"
Are you gonna let me finish?
No
Come on, I listened to you, you need to learn some manners.

And then everyone trying to lynch Herman Cain? Oops, was that a bad term... Ya know what you do when you dig up all the dirt on each other and toss it out in the open? You take away the journalists' and the opposing party's fun! Why make Obama's job easier? One of you will win the nomination, but you all will have been so busy trying to discredit each other so you could win that you'll be screwed anyways and won't have a shot at winning. Not to mention, if I'm running and I get the nomination, you think I'm gonna want to choose a running mate that 5 minutes ago hated my guts?

 

[ocean_jet]

Sure, lets turn corps upside down, take their money and give it to the zero liability, non-productive recipiant to whom i owe nothing

Your reading assignment:
http://naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=245458901&postcount=349

Hell, maybe if your supply chain is 100% American, you pay no corporate tax?

Before you continue to call me a corporate hating, anti-competitive market liberal... read the above and get back to me.

I believe in lowering the corporate tax... for companies that contribute to America's economy. I just don't believe in immediately slashing it by 20% when we are 15 trillion in debt as a nation. (Thanks to people like you who keep voting for the same XXXX sticks who keep spending money we don't have.)



And, as for "giving it to unproductive recipients", I believe ALL welfare abusers should be in prison. Remove the non-violent drug offenders and replace them with welfare abusers.

You want to scam the American people for your sustenance... fine. We'll give you a roof, clothes, and 3 meals a day. And, you'll paint license plates for whatever state you reside in.



So, you can stop referencing Ayn Rand as if I somehow support government control. I don't. (And seriously, in the context of your false ad hominems, I think I would be much more a Wesley Mouch than a Dr. Floyd... don't you?)

I believe in liberty, both social and fiscal, the responsibilities that come with liberty, and the Constitution of the United States of America.


THAT's Why I support Ron Paul.

(And apparently you do too Beezil... well, at least his tax policy anyway).

 

[n1ywb]

Why make Obama's job easier? One of you will win the nomination, but you all will have been so busy trying to discredit each other so you could win that you'll be screwed anyways and won't have a shot at winning. Not to mention, if I'm running and I get the nomination, you think I'm gonna want to choose a running mate that 5 minutes ago hated my guts?

Isn't that par for the course in politics? Anyway dems aren't watching these so at worst they might alienate some independents, but they probably aren't too phased by it anyway. Not to mention the american public has a 5 second attention span so these debates will be ancient history by the time the general election rolls around in over a year.

What gets me in these debates is how the ONLY GOAL THAT MATTERS is beating Obama which is basically a nice way of saying "We care more about POWER than about fixing this country." But I guess that's not really surprising, that's the whole point of political parties, putting your party before the people.

At least Ron Paul is putting his money where his mouth is.

 

[n1ywb]

Slight change of topic; Is there any candidate other than Ron Paul who would pull us out of ACTA negotiations? Can the president legislate domestic law via international treaty? This is yet another one of Obama's disappointing failures which has led me to believe that it doesn't matter who you vote for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement

The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA) is a proposed plurilateral agreement for the purpose of establishing international standards on intellectual property rights enforcement.

The scope of ACTA includes counterfeit goods, generic medicines and copyright infringement on the Internet.

Both the Bush administration and the Obama administration had rejected requests to make the text of ACTA public, with the White House saying that disclosure would cause "damage to the national security."[76] In 2009, Knowledge Ecology International filed a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request in the United States, but their entire request was denied. The Office of the United States Trade Representative's Freedom of Information office stated the request was withheld for being material "properly classified in the interest of national security."[77] US Senators Bernie Sanders (I-VT) and Sherrod Brown (D-OH) penned a letter on 23 November 2009, asking the United States Trade Representative to make the text of the ACTA public.[78]

An open letter signed by many organizations, including Consumers International, EDRi (27 European civil rights and privacy NGOs), the Free Software Foundation (FSF), the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), ASIC (French trade association for web 2.0 companies), and the Free Knowledge Institute (FKI), states that "the current draft of ACTA would profoundly restrict the fundamental rights and freedoms of European citizens, most notably the freedom of expression and communication privacy."[58] The Free Software Foundation argues that ACTA will create a culture of surveillance and suspicion.[59] Aaron Shaw, Research Fellow at the Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University, argues that "ACTA would create unduly harsh legal standards that do not reflect contemporary principles of democratic government, free market exchange, or civil liberties. Even though the precise terms of ACTA remain undecided, the negotiants' preliminary documents reveal many troubling aspects of the proposed agreement" such as removing "legal safeguards that protect Internet Service Providers from liability for the actions of their subscribers" in effect giving ISPs no option but to comply with privacy invasions. Shaw further says that "[ACTA] would also facilitate privacy violations by trademark and copyright holders against private citizens suspected of infringement activities without any sort of legal due process".[60]


The Free Software Foundation (FSF) has published "Speak out against ACTA", stating that the ACTA threatens free software by creating a culture "in which the freedom that is required to produce free software is seen as dangerous and threatening rather than creative, innovative, and exciting."[59] ACTA would also require that existing ISPs no longer host free software that can access copyrighted media; this would substantially affect many sites that offer free software or host software projects such as SourceForge. Specifically the FSF argues that ACTA will make it more difficult and expensive to distribute free software via file sharing and P2P technologies like BitTorrent, which are currently used to distribute large amounts of free software. The FSF also argues that ACTA will make it harder for users of free operating systems to play non-free media because DRM protected media would not be legally playable with free software.[59]

This shit is a perfect example of why we need somebody like Ron Paul in the White House.

 

[Boatwrench]

This shit is a perfect example of why we need somebody like Ron Paul in the White House.

Really? You think there would be changes? Remember what the last guy that said things would change?

Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.*** It is still there. Candidates talk out their backside about crap they don't know anything about, get elected, then read the briefing books and get an education.

Ron Paul won't be different. Now if Ron Paul could get the US out of NAFTA he would recieve my vote.






*** The reason I repeatedly speak of GTMO was just by chance was there when then candidate Obama stated he would shut it down. Naive.