Official Ron Paul 2012 Thread

[ocean_jet]

Having the highest corporate tax rate in the world causes a lot of companies, both domestic and foreign, to conduct business elsewhere. Lowering the rate makes it very attractive to bring (back) business to the U.S.

So, the idea is that we immediately slash 20% (35% now to proposed 15%) off all corporate taxes collected... by the majority of US companies...

and we will supposedly make it up AND MORE when the small minority of US companies that use overseas manuevering to avoid taxes will suddenly re-patriate their profits and pay taxes...

and that will make up the 20% we slashed off corporate tax revenue to start.

I haven't seen the numbers... but I doubt it adds up.





Long term, yes, lower corporate income taxes. I'm all for it. In the short term however, we have 15 trillion in debt growing by 2 trillion a year. Slashing 20% from corporate tax revenue doesn't seem like a good short term solution.

I hate to say it, but we need to raise taxes in the short term to bring down the ridulous amount of debt this nation has.

Cut taxes when our financial house is in order and we can afford it.

 

[Tom R.]

So, the idea is that we immediately slash 20% (35% now to proposed 15%) off all corporate taxes collected... by the majority of US companies...

One serious problem with the corporate tax rate--just like the individual income tax--concerns the loopholes. Eliminating the loopholes should go along with lowering the rate. I don't know where exactly that would put the incoming revenue figure for the gov if the rate is lowered to 15% (or 9%), but I support simplifying the tax code across the board.

Even if the individual tax rate were 100% for all people who earn $1M or more, which is a very low percentage of the U.S. population, it wouldn't be enough to put a dent in the debt. I think putting more people to work, simplifying the entire tax code, and Congress reducing their out-of-control spending will be significantly more effective.

 

[Beezil]

Having the highest corporate tax rate in the world causes a lot of companies, both domestic and foreign, to conduct business elsewhere. Lowering the rate makes it very attractive to bring (back) business to the U.S.

Tom r

Slow down a bit....

What you're trying to explain there is an enormously complicated piece of economic truth

You might need to dumb it down a bit for our native anti-capitalists!
:laugh:

 

[ocean_jet]

Tom r

Slow down a bit....

What you're trying to explain there is an enormously complicated piece of economic truth

You might need to dumb it down a bit for our native anti-capitalists!

Let me guess... you think lowering capital gains tax in favor of raising income tax is pro-capitalism, while doing the opposite, raising the capital gains tax in favor of lowering income tax is anti-capitalism?

 

[ocean_jet]

One serious problem with the corporate tax rate--just like the individual income tax--concerns the loopholes. Eliminating the loopholes should go along with lowering the rate. I don't know where exactly that would put the incoming revenue figure for the gov if the rate is lowered to 15% (or 9%), but I support simplifying the tax code across the board.

Even if the individual tax rate were 100% for all people who earn $1M or more, which is a very low percentage of the U.S. population, it wouldn't be enough to put a dent in the debt. I think putting more people to work, simplifying the entire tax code, and Congress reducing their out-of-control spending will be significantly more effective.

I pretty much agree with everything you said.


And, I am not opposed to lowering the corporate tax rate slowly over time as the national debt gets under control... but don't I think it leads to short term gains in more business, or more repatriated profits. And, honestly, I don't think it leads to long term increases in revenue through more business or more repatriated profits.

But IMO, that's ok. If we can get spending under control, we shouldn't need those tax revenues in the long term.

 

[Beezil]

Let me guess... you think lowering capital gains tax in favor of raising income tax is pro-capitalism, while doing the opposite, raising the capital gains tax in favor of lowering income tax is anti-capitalism?

Raising either would be stupidity

Lowering the corp income tax is critically necessary

 

[ocean_jet]

Raising either would be stupidity

Why?

Lowering the corp income tax is critically necessary

Why?

 

[ocean_jet]

What IS critically necessary is stopping deficit spending and lowering the national debt.


Lowering the corp income tax will worsen both of those in the short term.

 

[Beezil]

Economy major huh?

Or just an anti corp lib?

 

[XJEEPER]

Raising either would be stupidity

Lowering the corp income tax is critically necessary

You sound like one of those greedy business owners who wants a reduced tax obligation so you have more cash to invest in the expansion of your business and the addition of more jobs.........jerk.

 

[ocean_jet]

Economy major huh?

Or just an anti corp lib?

Ha. I'm almost 20 years out of college... so what I learned way back then is hardly relevant.

And, I am about as pro efficient market person as you will meet, with a firm belief that it is rarely, if ever justified for the government to influence market prices. I work for a fortune 500 company and a big part of my job is to argue before regulators as to why we deserve more profit...

so... you're really barking up the wrong tree with your anti corp liberal nonsense.


Out political leaders have gotten us into a huge mess, and it's not a left wing or right wing position at this point... we need to raise taxes in the short term to fix it. Cutting spending alone cannot fix the problem.

You can cling to the right wing side of the party all you want... but, just because I disagree with you on what needs to be done to fix the fiscal disaster this nation is in, doesn't put me on the left-wing side of the party.

I'm not part of your party.

 

[ocean_jet]

You sound like one of those greedy business owners who wants a reduced tax obligation so you have more cash to invest in the expansion of your business and the addition of more jobs.........jerk.

High corporate tax rates are not stalling investment at this point.

Sluggish demand is.

As of June, US corporations are sitting on ~$2 trillion in idle cash that they are not investing because demand forecasts do not justify it.

Private equity investors are sitting on another $0.5 trillion, ready to invest.

When demand returns, investment will follow.




If you want to use tax code to influence market behavior, a policy that puts the most disposable income into the most hands is the one that is going to have the best chance of jump starting the economy.

But, tweaking corporate tax rates won't do that.

 

[Boatwrench]

Which Ron Paul wants to take away the minimum wage and slash the EPA... Sounds like you are a closet Ron Paul supporter :eeks1:

Pepsi just shot out my nose...and it stings. :worship:

 

[XJEEPER]

Supply and demand, simple concept.

Since high corporate tax rates and excessive government regulation has pushed manufacturing jobs out of the country, the current US economy is based on consumption and not production. The US has a trade deficit of over $400,000,000,000.00

This is the root issue. Prove to me how a tax increase will solve this?
http://americaneconomicalert.org/ticker_home.asp

 

[n1ywb]

Supply and demand, simple concept.

Since high corporate tax rates and excessive government regulation has pushed manufacturing jobs out of the country, the current US economy is based on consumption and not production. The US has a trade deficit of over $400,000,000,000.00

This is the root issue. Prove to me how a tax increase will solve this?
http://americaneconomicalert.org/ticker_home.asp

That's funny, I thought Chinese children working for $0.05 per day took our jobs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_YnaHNcISw

 

[ocean_jet]

Supply and demand, simple concept.

Since high corporate tax rates and excessive government regulation has pushed manufacturing jobs out of the country, the current US economy is based on consumption and not production. The US has a trade deficit of over $400,000,000,000.00

This is the root issue. Prove to me how a tax increase will solve this?
http://americaneconomicalert.org/ticker_home.asp

Changing the corporate tax rate won't fix that, or really impact that in any meaningful way. It's low wages that pushed manufacturing overseas.

Besides, I think 15 trillion in debt growing by 2 trillion a year is a bigger issue than a 0.4 trillion trade imbalance.

 

[ocean_jet]

The corporate tax rate will however impact the reptriation of foriegn earned profits by American companies.

But, again, I have to ask... would the increase in revenue from a small percent of companies repatriating their profits more than outweigh the 20% immediate loss in revenue from corporate taxes?

I haven't seen the numbers, but I doubt it.

 

[Beezil]

High corporate tax rates are not stalling investment at this point.

oH MY GAWD!!!!!!

Not a business owner either I suppose.

If you were, as I am, you'd understand how ridiculously ignorant that statement is.....

nice work!

:clap:

 

[Beezil]

You sound like one of those greedy business owners who wants a reduced tax obligation so you have more cash to invest in the expansion of your business and the addition of more jobs.........jerk.

Yep.

Not to mention, Socialist State of Illinois has added their own increases, and that's killing me.

I want lower tax rates so I can hire just one below-minimum-wage mexican to wax my bentley.

We evil business owners are all that same....

 

[ocean_jet]

oH MY GAWD!!!!!!

Not a business owner either I suppose.

If you were, as I am, you'd understand how ridiculously ignorant that statement is.....

nice work!

:clap:

Sorry.... I look at the aggregate, the entirety of the economy...

I have no doubt that some businesses like yours are cash strapped. But that isn't the typical state of business in America today.