• Welcome to the new NAXJA Forum! If your password does not work, please use "Forgot your password?" link on the log-in page. Please feel free to reach out to [email protected] if we can provide any assistance.

Need help Diagnosing my Renix

Alright, so I have continued messing with this to no avail. Redid and cleaned my grounds and messed with the distributor but nothing changed.

Talked to a few mechanics at the local Jeep Dodge place and one mentioned cracked valve spring, does that make any sense?
 
I have seen rough idle and @RPM issues from collapsed (bad temper) valve springs.

I have not seen a high idle or running rich related to bad valve springs.

Question: what is causing the high idle AND rich condition? They don't usually go together. A large intake leak could cause the high idle by leaning out the mixture, and the ECU is trying to compensate with more fuel but I would expect one to cancel out the other to some extent.

Do you have an adjustable MAP?
 
I did, and I thought it might be the cause of my problems so I got rid of it. It was one of those homebrew ones from Dino's site. All the conections have been re- soldered.

Swapped PCMs today, nothing. :badpc: Just to rule that out.
 
I can watch the PCM switch to closed loop and when it does, the ST fule trim drop to 0 and then it switches right back open loop and then some time it switches back to closed and tries again to no avail.
 
That sounds like a bad O2 sensor or no power to its heating element to me.

The problem with that is the oxygen heater relay simply heats the o2 sensor faster, but it will eventually get to operating temperature even if the heating circuit isn't working. His problem seems to persist even at normal operating temperatures.
 
Is your throttle butterfly fully closed and is all your idle air being pulled through the other passages in the TB, or is it cracked open? Can you get 13% Closed TPS setting?
 
What should the o2 voltage read? I have replaced it with a new one and its reading .12 volts at idle.

Lots of good info at http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1012701. If I'm reading that info right, 0.12 volts means your 02 sensor is saying lean while your nose is saying its running rich? Note that you need to read the voltage while its plugged in. Check that the supply voltage and grounds at the plug look good as well. You do have the correct type of sensor right? Not a generic universal fit for newer vehicles?

In the link above someone quoted the FSM saying O2 sensor operating temperature is "1475 F (850 C)". I would think the heater circuit must be working to get that temp unless you're running real lean.
 
Last edited:
I see no posts by Exxon that he has determined that EVERY wire associated with the O2, MAT, CTS, MAP, TPS, and Engine speed sensors, as well as the sensors are good. All of these sensors are used by the ECU to control injector pulse width. He should remove every ground connection, clean and reinstall. He should insure the MAP sensors vacuum line is perfect; IE: put a hand-operated vacuum pump on the tube going to the MAP from the throttle body, and insure the MAP will hold a vacuum--indefinitely.
I cannot over emphasise the importance of ensuring every one of the above listed components, and there associated circuits be tested with a DVM for both proper reference voltages and conductivity. The ECM ASSUMES these circuits are operating correctly, especially proper fuel pump pressure.
One bad/intermittent ground, or high resistance short in any one of the wires running to the ECU can cause all sorts of hard to interpret shenanigans.
It appears you have a scanner--that's invaluable in determining if the ECU is seeing the same thing you will see as you test each sensor.
As for your symptoms, you say the ECU attains closed loop status, then as you watch the scanner, the O2 signal drops to a steady .12v, followed by a ST learn of 0 count. In order for the ECU to go into closed loop in the first place, the O2 signal must have been correct, while in open loop. Meaning, to get into closed loop at the end of the warm up mode, the CTS and MAT signals had to indicate adequate engine temp (~160*), and the O2 signal had to have been constantly varying between ~.5v and 4.5v (my educated guess)--but clearly had to be crossing the center threshold of 2.5v. But, as soon as it goes into closed loop, and the ECU takes over, the system starts dumping too much fuel (injector pulse width too long). So what happens when in closed loop that doesn't happen at the transition point of to going into closed loop? The ECU now controls injector pulse width using all of the same sensors it used to get into closed loop, in the first place. So what's different? CTS or MAT malfunction as they continue to sense higher and higher temps? Wires shorting due to increased temps past "closed Loop" temps? Remember, the temp sensors act like the carburetor choke of "old". Incorrect readings can easily affect richer running.
From my reading, the Renix ECU operates very similar to the OBD-I systems, right down to saving at least some faults; a proper scanner is required to see these. The main difference that I see at the moment, is the difference in the types of O2 scanners used for the Renix system, versus post Renix Chrysler, and most other cars. The Renix O2 sensor is a variable resistor, varying its resistance based on sensed oxygen levels, versus the more common O2 sensors, that generate a voltage based on sensed O2 levels. The measured output of the Renix O2 sensor should be between 0 and 5 volts. Stoichiometric (14.7:1 fuel ratio) is represented by 2.5v. The more standard O2 sensors generate a voltage between 0 and 1v, with a stoichiometric value of .45v. Other than those differences, the ECUs use the same, or very similar scheme to control injector pulse width.
With regard to the O2 heater. The heater is controlled by the ECU, which energizes the relay until the ECU senses (??)adequate exhaust flow to insure proper operation. I interpret this to mean that some where above fast idle--2000+ RPM?--the ECU turns off the )2 heater.
 
Last edited:

Checked my o2 sensor according to that. It checks out good.

I see no posts by Exxon that he has determined that EVERY wire associated with the O2, MAT, CTS, MAP, TPS, and Engine speed sensors, as well as the sensors are good. All of these sensors are used by the ECU to control injector pulse width. He should remove every ground connection, clean and reinstall. CTS or MAT malfunction as they continue to sense higher and higher temps? Wires shorting due to increased temps past "closed Loop" temps? Remember, the temp sensors act like the carburetor choke of "old". Incorrect readings can easily affect richer running.

After I checked the o2, I moved onto the MAP sensor harness. It had 6.7 ohms of resistance. I cleaned the grounds at the dipstick, and the other one going from the head to firewall and that brought it down to 4.7 ohms. Should be almost none or at least less than one should'nt it?

Going to mess with the MAT and CTS tonight. The TPS is calibrated but I can go back and see how the ground circuit is on that.
 
Checked my o2 sensor according to that. It checks out good.



After I checked the o2, I moved onto the MAP sensor harness. It had 6.7 ohms of resistance. I cleaned the grounds at the dipstick, and the other one going from the head to firewall and that brought it down to 4.7 ohms. Should be almost none or at least less than one should'nt it?

Going to mess with the MAT and CTS tonight. The TPS is calibrated but I can go back and see how the ground circuit is on that.

Yes.
 
Have you measured between the map/tps ground and the wire at the dipstick bolt? If that looks high, open up the main wiring loom at the back of the valve cover. There is a crimped connection where all of those ground wires come together. I and a few other people have had an issue with that connection corroding and falling apart.
 
there's a nasty crimped wire that gets wrapped in duct tape under the coolant bottle. I had some problems in there, but IIRC there's no injection harness stuff in there, but the wires going to the fuel pump, and the ECU power wires are both crimped right there.

I admit that I did not read as closely as I should have, but have you tested the injectors with a noid light? I wonder if you've not got an injector that's hanging open, or has a weak return and cannot stop the high pressure fuel. Also, checked the fuel pressure? a bad regulator would lead to too much fuel in the motor, as would an obstructed return line.
fuel pressure should be 31 PSI, 39 if you pull the vacuum line to the regular, and should spike to about 75 if you pinch the return line momentarily.
 
I dont have a noid light, but I would like to test the injectors. Is there any other way? If I remember right, my pressure at the fuel rail was 33 I think?
 
I'd roll with 33, depending on the vacuum that's about right.

I'm not sure of any other way to test the injectors. Let me dig in the FSM.
 
ok. I'll paraphrase this the best I can.

Put an ohm meter across the two terminals. Resistance should be approx 16 ohms@68F

Connect test lamp between terminals (harness side) observe test lamp while cranking. If falshes, proceed to next test.

there's some stuff about verifing the fuel pressure, but since you've got a rich problem and not a lean one I think your fuel supply is good.
The next bit is likely more pertinent.
It says to remove the injector(s) and connect one side to 12V and ground the other repeatedly. Everytime you ground it you should hear an audible "click"

That's the procedure from the "
Jeep
®
4.0 LITER MULTI-POINT
FUEL INJECTION
(1987-1990 RENIX System)

" service manual.
 
DANG! And I just pulled the injector rail and reinstalled it and come back inside and read this. LOL

I pulled the spark plugs again. I put new ones in back in October when this mess started and none looked that bad. I pulled them and cleaned them maybe two months ago, they were all a little sooty but nothing extreme. Tonight I pulled them and the #1 and #6 plugs were black. The rest were still clean. So I pulled my injector rail and put the two spare injectors I had in the #1 and #6. Still runs the same.

Valvetrain? Compression test?

I also pulled the wiring loom off the harness and all that electrical tape and from the T under the MAP sensor and checked were all the grounds are all connected. It looked good. All the wires are clean, not crimped, an I checked it all the way down the fuel rail to till it terminates at the 02 sensor.

And I am still getting 4.7 ohms through the MAP sensor ground.

Weather is going to be crappy here this weekend so I'll doubt I get to work on it till maybe Wednesday at least. ::(:
 
Back
Top