Leaked video from Iraq

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

Fine. Like I pointed out earlier, I believe it to be a generational thing. Age brings a different perspective.

this isnt your godamn war so stay out of it.


i dont preach to you about how vietnam was fought do i?


what was your job in the military anyways? please enlighten us with your vast knowledge of modern military strategy.

 

[fscrig75]

Fine. Like I pointed out earlier, I believe it to be a generational thing. Age brings a different perspective.

I think I get what your saying but this forum is our VFW right now. Give it 10-15 years and we'll be the ones sitting in the VFW talking smack. I do try to go down to the Legion and VFW every so often just to shoot the breeze with the old timers. I like their stories.

 

[fscrig75]

this isnt your godamn war so stay out of it.


i dont preach to you about how vietnam was fought do i?


what was your job in the military anyways? please enlighten us with your vast knowledge of modern military strategy.

Relax, he has served and he has earned the right to have an opinion. Not every service member is a ground pounder.

 

[ECKSJAY]

Relax, he has served and he has earned the right to have an opinion. Not every service member is a ground pounder.

Nobody's perfect.

 

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

I think I get what your saying but this forum is our VFW right now. Give it 10-15 years and we'll be the ones sitting in the VFW talking smack. I do try to go down to the Legion and VFW every so often just to shoot the breeze with the old timers. I like their stories.

right. x2





i grew up in the american legion, my mom was a bartender there, im a current member. my father was a vietnam marine, his father was in WWII.... i grew up with a great appreciation for the generations past because i thought they had something the current generation lacked..... work ethic, true patriotism, and balls.

but people like boatwrench and zukiron remind me that there are bad apples in every bunch, and maybe most of the XXXXXXs from prior generations died off early so i never got to see too much of them.....

 

[fscrig75]

Nobody's perfect.

Hell I'm Super Pogue now, AIT instructor. Someone please shoot me.:looser:

 

[AIbandit]

Hell I'm Super Pogue now, AIT instructor. Someone please shoot me.:looser:

I got you beat
I'm a firearms instructor for the navy now :doh:

 

[ECKSJAY]

Hell I'm Super Pogue now, AIT instructor. Someone please shoot me.:looser:

lol I trained for combat support but ended up guarding a SCIF stateside...I can haz a say? :cheers:

 

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

Relax, he has served and he has earned the right to have an opinion. Not every service member is a ground pounder.

okkkkay shit ill play along.


i hope i dont turn into epic beard man some day, snapping on some dude on a bus.

IRRRRRRAQQQQQ BITTTCHESSS!

 

[fscrig75]

I got you beat
I'm a firearms instructor for the navy now :doh:

At least you can handle weapons, I'll drop my packet in 2 years and this assignment is 3 years. I will never fire a military weapon again.:rattle:





Unless I can find a way out of this living hell that is Ft Sill, OK

 

[AIbandit]

At least you can handle weapons, I'll drop my packet in 2 years and this assignment is 3 years. I will never fire a military weapon again.:rattle:

Unless I can find a way out of this living hell that is Ft Sill, OK

Yeah but now I get loaded weapons pointed at me by retards instead of hajies.
Not my preferred way to go.


I do get alot of trigger time though.

 

[Boatwrench]

this isnt your godamn war so stay out of it.

I would have liked to, but the Taliban had different ideas.

i dont preach to you about how vietnam was fought do i?
I wasn't there

what was your job in the military anyways? please enlighten us with your vast knowledge of modern military strategy.
OK, I'll try and make it more clear...BOATWRENCH...but that was before I took too many promotions, then my official job was staff, but since the only one older than me was the 3-star, it was more like guidance counselor

I see our difference of opinion stemming from our attitudes towards the cards life deals us. I respect life and I respect opinions, even those different than mine.

 

[Boatwrench]

I got you beat
I'm a firearms instructor for the navy now :doh:

At Everett or Bangor?

 

[ECKSJAY]

At Everett or Bangor?

Creepy...

 

[Boatwrench]

Creepy...

I shot my last quals at Bangor sub base in November, it was a civilian instructor.

 

[WB9YZU]

Yes it was premeditated, that's what AH-64s are good at. They hover a nice distance away and destroy the target.
The reason they didn't engage right away is simple 1) they didn't have permission at the time, 2) they lost their field of fire, the group thing was pure luck, its easier to kill them close then far apart. Why don't you watch the video again and instead of listening to the moron from MSNBC listen to the communication between pilot and gunner and from the other AH-64.

You are right again they were not threatened, the targets on the ground didn't even know the AH-64 was there until it was to late. Take some time to learn and understand military tactics before you run your mouth about things you don't know. Ask the fly boy around here, we like to engage at the furthest possible distance.

As for the van that's all METT-TC. I would've engaged it too, for all the gunner knew they were there to pick up the weapons and rescue their brothers in arms. By destroying the van they eliminated 2-3 more combatants.

This is the problem, you are using terms in a specific manner that makes the AH-64 crew look like war criminals, premeditated and massacre. You are passing judgement on the tactics that these warriors used when you have no clue about military tactics. I don't know sh*t about rebuilding an engine or transmission so you will never hear me tell someone how to do it, in turn you don't know sh*t about military tactics so you should just keep your opinion to yourself.

This is a 2nd try so bear with me...I didn't like my 1st try...

You brought up some interesting points in paragraphs 1 & 2, very enlightening. However, I'm not exactly sure what a METT-TC is...

Your spin on what I wrote was interesting, but not what I intended. You are right, I am not Military or Ex-Military, so I used regular words which describe what I saw. If they seem blunt, well, that's what I saw. I have never claimed knowledge of Military tactics, if I have, you'll have to point out to me where I did. At no point in either post did I tell anyone what I thought the action should have been, so your engine/transmission analogy is flawed.

I disagree with both Your and Dumptruck's assertion that because people do not understand Military Tactics that they should have no opinion or voice, here or anywhere else. I'll only address the Forum issue.

This is a discussion Forum, not a VFW post, not a Military discussion Forum. Not all Members are Military or Ex-Military, and I believe you need to respect that. People will have opinions and you can either decide to correct them via discussion (as you started off doing ), or you can play the STFU game. Since this is a discussion Forum, I would rather have a nice discussion and learn something along the way.

Ron

 

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

I disagree with both Your and Dumptruck's assertion that because people do not understand Military Tactics that they should have no opinion or voice, here or anywhere else. I'll only address the Forum issue.

This is a discussion Forum, not a VFW post, not a Military discussion Forum. Not all Members are Military or Ex-Military, and I believe you need to respect that. People will have opinions and you can either decide to correct them via discussion (as you started off doing ), or you can play the STFU game. Since this is a discussion Forum, I would rather have a nice discussion and learn something along the way.

Ron

US shut the XXXX up? excuse me?




look you godamn troll, you've got it backwards.

you neglected my post directed at you and thats all fine and dandy, just shows what kind of a shitbag human being you are.

but i swear to god damn jesus, allah, buddah, or fuggin satan himself if you told me or any combat vet to not voice their opinion on a subject matter where they are the experienced duty expert..... well then i'd have to reserve the right to fuq your ass up.


last time i checked this wasnt a XXXXing hold discussions on things i dont have a XXXXing clue about forum either............... or did i miss that.

well shit, its a political forum.

are you a politician? am i? no....then we both dont have a right to be here.

are you a combat vet?


well shit, as you said before......S T F U


your troll ass bullshit has been sucessful youve given me a XXXXing headache and your lucky my fridge is full of beer and my ol ladys not on her period or else id have to beat the piss and blood out of some faggot like you.



OH AND METT_TC is defined as mission, enemy, terrain, weather, troops, support available, time available, civil considerations C

 

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

one more thing.



<edit>

 

[tharlanjr]

I disagree with both Your and Dumptruck's assertion that because people do not understand Military Tactics that they should have no opinion or voice, here or anywhere else. I'll only address the Forum issue.

Unless you know what your saying don't speak.

Here's a joke to get it across a little better...

A guy was seated next to a 10-year-old girl on an airplane. Being bored, he turned to the girl and said, "Let's talk. I've heard that flights go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger."

The girl, who was reading a book, closed it slowly and said to the guy, "What would you like to talk about?"

Oh, I don't know," said the guy. "How about nuclear power?"

"OK," she said. "That could be an interesting topic. But let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow and a deer all eat the same stuff... grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, and a horse produces clumps of dried grass. Why do you suppose that is?"

The guy thought about it and said, "Hmmm, I have no idea."

To which the girl replied, "Do you really feel qualified to discuss nuclear power when you don't know s***"

 

[fscrig75]

This is a 2nd try so bear with me...I didn't like my 1st try...

You brought up some interesting points in paragraphs 1 & 2, very enlightening. However, I'm not exactly sure what a METT-TC is...

Your spin on what I wrote was interesting, but not what I intended. You are right, I am not Military or Ex-Military, so I used regular words which describe what I saw. If they seem blunt, well, that's what I saw. I have never claimed knowledge of Military tactics, if I have, you'll have to point out to me where I did. At no point in either post did I tell anyone what I thought the action should have been, so your engine/transmission analogy is flawed.

I disagree with both Your and Dumptruck's assertion that because people do not understand Military Tactics that they should have no opinion or voice, here or anywhere else. I'll only address the Forum issue.

This is a discussion Forum, not a VFW post, not a Military discussion Forum. Not all Members are Military or Ex-Military, and I believe you need to respect that. People will have opinions and you can either decide to correct them via discussion (as you started off doing ), or you can play the STFU game. Since this is a discussion Forum, I would rather have a nice discussion and learn something along the way.

Ron

It stands for Mission, Enemy, Terrain(weather), Troops, Time and Civilian considerations (METT-TC) Basically you all these categories to help you determine what actions you should take when situations arise during you mission that were unseen or unprepared for.

I have zero issue with being blunt, my issues comes from the words you used. Massacre and premeditated are words used when an horrible act has occured against a single or group of people. These are words used in court by lawyers to paint a picture of a horrible person that should not be allowed to live among the rest of us, not regular words. You said in your post that we do not know what caused this group of men to be targeted in the first place. If you do not know the back ground how can you prejudge these men to be guilty of a premeditated massacre.

If the crew actually thought it was actually in danger from a RPG, I figure they would have opened up immediately, and not waited for the men to become a nice target. What was the reason for destroying the van?

However, the video I watched showed a group of men, which the gun crew waited.....

This is where you do not understand military tactics. We do not just spray bullets where ever we feel like it. We wait till we have a good target and then we engage. We try and avoid collateral damage as much as possible. Military tactics teach us when to engage and when to hold our fire for a better targets.

You are entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is formed on false ideas, which causes your opinion to be wrong. You should fully understand a situation before you form an opinion.

I did not get to see what prompted this attack.....

Everyone is entitle to think and say what they want, its one of the reason I serve. The words you used to describe what these warriors did bother me, they show you as a person that thinks they are guilty and must prove they are innocent. It shows you have no respect for what service members do for you past, present and future.