Boatwrench
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Petaluma, CA
Sad, but I realize it's a generational thing.
-
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Leaked video from Iraq
- Thread starter Darky
- Start date
FearNoFish
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Heber City, UT
Having been born soon after the end of WWII, I have lived through multiple "conflicts", "police actions", "nato depolyments" or what ever you want to call them. I never served. I was glad to get my 4F. I was of flower power age during the Vietnam war but never could stand the hippie mentality.
I have always had the upmost respect for any man or women the would put their lives on the line to protect my sorry ass. I have never felt that I was in a position to second guess their decisions, made in a split second under extreme pressure to protect lives of their fellow soldiers.
I have a much harder time respecting the polititions and civilians that set back in their easy chairs and ask our soldiers to go into battle half prepared and half supported.
No war has ever been fought and won with out civilian casualties. It is unfortunate but true. If we send our people into harms way, at least give the the support required to get the job done or don't send them at all.
In for a penny, In for a pound. (Do it all the way or don't do it at all)
FNF
I have always had the upmost respect for any man or women the would put their lives on the line to protect my sorry ass. I have never felt that I was in a position to second guess their decisions, made in a split second under extreme pressure to protect lives of their fellow soldiers.
I have a much harder time respecting the polititions and civilians that set back in their easy chairs and ask our soldiers to go into battle half prepared and half supported.
No war has ever been fought and won with out civilian casualties. It is unfortunate but true. If we send our people into harms way, at least give the the support required to get the job done or don't send them at all.
In for a penny, In for a pound. (Do it all the way or don't do it at all)
FNF
WB9YZU
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Madison, WI
Don't worry about it, it's all in the text. Just read the article.
I did not get to see what prompted this attack, certainly no one here did.
However, the video I watched showed a group of men, which the gun crew waited until long after this supposed RPG showed up and they were grouped up, then they opened fire. When any tried to escape they were tracked down and killed. When a van drove by and tried to save one of these men, they destroyed the van.
If the crew actually thought it was actually in danger from a RPG, I figure they would have opened up immediately, and not waited for the men to become a nice target. What was the reason for destroying the van? Because it was rescuing one of the targets? It appears this was not reactive, it was premeditated.
I don't think you can spin this and come out clean. The video shows a massacre and whether the people were doing wrong or not, the terminology is the same.
Now whether that massacre was "justified" is another matter. As I mentioned, the video and story does not show why the helo crews were hunting this group of men, it only shows the result.
Ron
This is a war. It's not taking place in the United States by law enforcement officials. In war, you take the offensive, not wait for the bad guy to shoot first. It's the only way to win a war... If you don't kill them now, you'll kill them later after they've attacked and killed hundreds of people.
Massacre or not, it's justified. Mistakes happen, and I feel HORRIBLE for the family of the media that were killed, mostly because some dumb f*ck decided it was a "good" thing to leak this video out to the masses that showed two innocent men killed. It's the new age we live in, we cannot successfully fight a war, because everything is recorded now, and obviously released to the media where our soldiers receive FIERCE backlash from the country. It's bullshit.
Boatwrench
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Petaluma, CA
The video I watched had a building in the way, so there was a delay in firing.
fscrig75
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Burkburnett/Lawton
Yes it was premeditated, that's what AH-64s are good at. They hover a nice distance away and destroy the target.
The reason they didn't engage right away is simple 1) they didn't have permission at the time, 2) they lost their field of fire, the group thing was pure luck, its easier to kill them close then far apart. Why don't you watch the video again and instead of listening to the moron from MSNBC listen to the communication between pilot and gunner and from the other AH-64.
You are right again they were not threatened, the targets on the ground didn't even know the AH-64 was there until it was to late. Take some time to learn and understand military tactics before you run your mouth about things you don't know. Ask the fly boy around here, we like to engage at the furthest possible distance.
As for the van that's all METT-TC. I would've engaged it too, for all the gunner knew they were there to pick up the weapons and rescue their brothers in arms. By destroying the van they eliminated 2-3 more combatants.
This is the problem, you are using terms in a specific manner that makes the AH-64 crew look like war criminals, premeditated and massacre. You are passing judgement on the tactics that these warriors used when you have no clue about military tactics. I don't know sh*t about rebuilding an engine or transmission so you will never hear me tell someone how to do it, in turn you don't know sh*t about military tactics so you should just keep your opinion to yourself.
- Location
- on the beach in Ocean View, VA
Boatwrench
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Petaluma, CA
I'm 53. I am old enough to know plenty of the greatest generation and their attitude was it was a crappy job, we did it, it's over. They would sit in VFW halls and then talk smack about the armchair generals, not in public, maybe because every persons opinion was important.
Boatwrench
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Petaluma, CA
- Location
- on the beach in Ocean View, VA
wasn't sure who it was/ if it was directed toward-- situation, in general, I'll second every word of it.
wolfpackjeeper
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- 500' and 500KCAS, RAF lakenheath
In a missile environment like that you engage as far away as possible, the delay came from getting a hostile declaration and strike approved, then setting up for the shot. We were talking about this today actually. I guarantee those pilots feel ad about the reporters, but the rest of the squadron is going to feel a lot worse if you are a smoking hole in the ground. You are also paid to bring the asset back.
It looks to me like the were within ROE with a valid authorization to shoot. ICS chatter is what it is, those guys get paid to take huge risks flying into an area that is saturated with RPG's and some scary little man portable SAMs. That stress has to blow off somewhere.
Coastie
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Upper Peninsula, Michigan
The only disturbing thing about that video was the hair cut on the blond headed guy.
If I had seen only the footage and did not know before hand that it was a camera I would have thought it could have been a weapon as well.
If I had seen only the footage and did not know before hand that it was a camera I would have thought it could have been a weapon as well.
I clearly saw AK-47's in multiple peoples hands when they first acquired.
Honestly even if they were "journalists" they were probably filming attacks for training videos. XXXXem
Ron you weren't there and you will never have the balls to be there.
Yet you speak of something you have no knowledge of. Do you work for the media? because you should.
Honestly even if they were "journalists" they were probably filming attacks for training videos. XXXXem
Ron you weren't there and you will never have the balls to be there.
Yet you speak of something you have no knowledge of. Do you work for the media? because you should.
ECKSJAY
Water is dirty
- Location
- Covington, WA
xDUMPTRUCKx
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- highway to hell
what do you do for a living zuki-ron?
if it pays half as good as what i do i trade you straight up.
you can preach your idea of effective combat in afghanistan.
who knows you could be the greatest thing to happen to this country since obama.
if it pays half as good as what i do i trade you straight up.
you can preach your idea of effective combat in afghanistan.
who knows you could be the greatest thing to happen to this country since obama.
xDUMPTRUCKx
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- highway to hell
like i stated earlier, people who haven't been there don't get an opinion.
those people need to keep their shit to themselves, cause us who HAVE been there and done that really don't appreciate it.
Maybe I should just spout off how I think everyone who never was in the service is a godamn pussy and should move to canada?
Israel has their shit right, mandatory service....if you don't like it, too bad, do your term and then move somewhere else like America where there are plenty of people to do the dirty work for you.
Boatwrench
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Petaluma, CA
Not everyone who has been there shares your opinion. I know plenty who don't. Just saying...
There's a problem with all volunteer career military and not having a draft or manadatory military service. A disconnect between those warrior types and the civilians. I can't count the number of times I would have to correct JO's when they would say "the real world".
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Fixed
Boatwrench
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Petaluma, CA
Fine. Like I pointed out earlier, I believe it to be a generational thing. Age brings a different perspective.
vincepru
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- cleveland, ohio/ KC, MO
