Compare international Health care

[SleeperXJ]

And perhaps Medicaid doesn't pay Health Insurers enough to prevent patient dumping...

http://www.gasdetection.com/news2/health_news_digest110.html

 

[ehall]

And perhaps Medicaid doesn't pay Health Insurers enough to prevent patient dumping...

hello? GOVERNMENT CONTROLS COSTS THE SAME WAY EVERYBODY ELSE DOES WHICH IS RESTRICT ACCESS TO EXPENSIVE RESOURCES. Why would they pay the hospital rent to shelter the homeless? Do you think they should? lol

 

[SleeperXJ]

hello? GOVERNMENT CONTROLS COSTS THE SAME WAY EVERYBODY ELSE DOES WHICH IS RESTRICT ACCESS TO EXPENSIVE RESOURCES. Why would they pay the hospital rent to shelter the homeless? Do you think they should? lol

So I guess your Ok with people dying in the streets. I'm not...
I pay roughly 33% income tax and get no health care coverage from Uncle Sam.
I also have to contribute ~$1K/year for my portion of company provided health care. I'd give up highway maintenance (I drive a Jeep) for cheaper health care. Who knows it could save Jeep.

 

[DoctorPhate]

hello? GOVERNMENT CONTROLS COSTS THE SAME WAY EVERYBODY ELSE DOES WHICH IS RESTRICT ACCESS TO EXPENSIVE RESOURCES. Why would they pay the hospital rent to shelter the homeless? Do you think they should? lol

You are clearly too ignorant to even bother discussing this with.


If you wish to have an intelligent conversation PM me in a couple of years when you grow up.

 

[SleeperXJ]

Hmmm, it seems some posts are missing from last night. Is BIG BROTHER watch'n?

 

[JNickel101]

33% income tax? Damn, you're getting ripped off.....must be one of the top 1% of wage earners in this country

You'd be smart to support fairtax.org

On another note...I think it is funny that Obama has been spouting off about how gov't healthcare won't cover illegals....I thought that was an odd statement for a democrat to make.....then I found out why - he plans to just make them all legal. Go figure....

 

[DoctorPhate]

33% income tax? Damn, you're getting ripped off.....must be one of the top 1% of wage earners in this country

You'd be smart to support fairtax.org

On another note...I think it is funny that Obama has been spouting off about how gov't healthcare won't cover illegals....I thought that was an odd statement for a democrat to make.....then I found out why - he plans to just make them all legal. Go figure....

Perfect example of why I think the states should just leave the system the way it is or maybe require everyone to have health insurance or something.

It works amazing in canada but we also don't have a huge open border at the bottom of our country leading to a 3rd world nation basically. I think all national health care would do in the states is rape the tax payers and bankrupt the country.

1. They wont be willing to pay the doctors 100-150k like they do here in Canada VS almost double that in the US like it is now.

2. Illegals can't really be stopped, mearly slowed down. As long as there isn't a 1 mile wide barrier of fences and mines between the US and Mexico, mexicans will get in. It's a fact of life and something you have to take into account when looking at programs like this.

3. MANY(not all mind you..) American's are afraid of socialist programs because they have grown up being told that any kind of socialist program is a step towards losing their freedoms and becoming a Communist. Although Socialism is closer to Communism then pure free market capitalism it doesn't make it a stepping stone. It COULD be seen as a stepping stone but there are many examples of socialist free market capitalist counties out there to prove this theory wrong.

Although I don't believe Socialism is a stepping stone to Communism in 99% of the cases I do believe it's a bad idea for the US to move towards a more socialist state simply because Americans are not educated on the system nor do I think they are ready for such a system.

Such systems will always attract abuse and the only way to combat the abuse is through watch dog programs and bureaucracy. As much as we all hate bureaucracy, without it we(Canadians) would be paying for ALOT more people to sit at one and suck the country dry on welfare.

If the states were to follow a more socialist trend from now on it would require an extremely gradual transition into it. You have to remember all the hard liners in the country who's opinions still matter. Some of them may not be too smart and their arguments may not make sense some times but in a democracy, everyone gets a voice.

 

[Tom R.]

...or maybe require everyone to have health insurance or something..

There are two problems with this. First, forcing people into it goes against our system of freedom. Second, some people choose not to have health insurance.

Although I don't believe Socialism is a stepping stone to Communism in 99% of the cases I do believe it's a bad idea for the US to move towards a more socialist state simply because Americans are not educated on the system nor do I think they are ready for such a system.

Perhaps many Americans don't want Socialism because they are educated about it.

 

[DoctorPhate]

Perhaps many Americans don't want Socialism because they are educated about it.

Please explain in detail then why you believe a socialist program such as nationalized health care is inherently evil. I'd be interested to know why American's are so against even one or two social programs.

Personally, being a Canadian I look around me and other then the higher taxation(which I'm ok with) I don't see anything bad about our health care system.

 

[JNickel101]

My issue is, if I am 100% healthy and don't have bad habits (smoking, excessive drinking, obesity), why am I going to pay the same amount of $$$ for healthcare (which I may never use), as some person who is on 18 different medications, oxygen and visits the doctor every week?

Another issue is, we have a country full of hypochondriacs. That's why ERs and clinics are so full....everyone thinks something is wrong with them, anytime they don't feel 100% perfect, they think they need to see a doctor or take some kind of medication - and media enhances this by spreading fear - bird flu, swine flu, SARS, whatever....If you can afford to do this on your own dime, then fine - but don't make me front the cost for your mental issues.

 

[DoctorPhate]

Thats why we have wait lines in our ERs.

People in Canada bitch and complain about wait times but you know what? Those hypochondriacs you mentioned are the ones waiting while people who are actually sick get put through.

My uncle is 43 and up until 3 weeks ago he was healthy with no bad habits.

Turned out he had cancer in his lung but the tumor formed on the back of the lung instead of inside it so it went un-noticed and grew into his spinal collumn. He now has bone cancer, brain cancer and lung cancer. 43 years old, 2 kids(6 and 15) and never had bad habits.


I see your point about not wanting to pay for it and to be honest I consider it somewhat selfish. You would rather have a coffee once a week then help save someones life. That's your choice and thats why you live in the US and I live in Canada.

I pay in the 40% rate for my taxes but I'm ok with that because I know a single mother can afford to get her child health care if he brakes his leg or gets hit by a car or something.

Keep in mind that 40% rate includes health care, welfare services, disability insurance(for myself), and a plethora of other services designed to help people live their lives if something bad happens.

I want to make it clear that I understand and respect your opinion about this matter which is why I'm in support of a two tiered system here in Canada which we now have. Taxes have gone down slightly and those who wish to pay to be served can be.

Personally having grown up with a single mother who worked and went to school to get REAL job to provide for me, it puts me in a unique position to see the benefits of such programs.


Edit: btw that 40% also includes CPP which is Canadian Pension Plan. Its a government service that takes a small sum from your taxes and puts it into a pension plan for you which is given at 65 or at your death in a lump sum if before 65

 

[JNickel101]

Selfish? I just want people to work and pay for what they want. How often do you fill up and pay for someone else's gas when you're fueling up your XJ at the station? I could say it's pretty selfish of you for NOT paying for the person's gas at the pump next to you.

That's the big "if" - I don't want to pay for someone else's "if" - I want to pay for my own "if". I don't pay anyone else's vehicle insurance - I think it sucks enough that car insurance rates here in New Mexico are higher than a lot of other comparable places due to #1, high rate of DUIs, and #2, high rate of uninsured motorists (aka illegals).

And before I get flamed for #2, those are direct words from my State Farm agent.

 

[DoctorPhate]

Paying for someone elses gas to go to the beach and paying for someone to get in an ambulance because they are having a heart attack are two very different things.

We also have lower insurance here because the insurance company doesn't have to pay for medical bills of the guy who's head is splattered all over your stinger on your XJ.

I apologize again if I offended you with the selfish remark but I do think its somewhat selfish to complain about a 1-2%(at VERY most) increase in your income tax so that someone less fortunate then you or I can get health care.

 

[SleeperXJ]

33% income tax? Damn, you're getting ripped off.....must be one of the top 1% of wage earners in this country

You'd be smart to support fairtax.org

I pay the same rate as any other engineer at my facility (Iknow this because it's a common point of discussion). Anyway, my point is that I'm paying for streets, the military, police etc. These are provided by the commom citizen by the taxes they pay. Every citizen benifits from these components of the US including those that can't afford to pay for them. If we have to keep paying for profits to private insurers, we'll soon run out of money to maintain the rest of the system. In my opinion, paying my fare share is my part in maintaining this great country. Paying for some company's profits for something that important makes no sense.:soapbox:

 

[DoctorPhate]

I pay the same rate as any other engineer at my facility (Iknow this because it's a common point of discussion). Anyway, my point is that I'm paying for streets, the military, police etc. These are provided by the commom citizen and the taxes they pay. Every citizen benifits from these components of the US including those that can't afford to pay for them. If we have to keep paying for profits to private insurers, we'll soon run out of money to maintain the rest of the system. In my opinion, paying my fare share is may part in maintaining this great country.:soapbox:

My same mentality here in Canada.

 

[JNickel101]

Paying for someone elses gas to go to the beach and paying for someone to get in an ambulance because they are having a heart attack are two very different things.

We also have lower insurance here because the insurance company doesn't have to pay for medical bills of the guy who's head is splattered all over your stinger on your XJ.

I apologize again if I offended you with the selfish remark but I do think its somewhat selfish to complain about a 1-2%(at VERY most) increase in your income tax so that someone less fortunate then you or I can get health care.

Less fortunate is one thing - people who refuse to work and want everything given to them because they feel they are entitled to it is what I'm talking about.

I wasn't trying to say gas is the same as paying for someone else's medical bills - I (perhaps poorly) was trying to state my refusal to pay for something that someone else didn't want to pay for.

When you say lower insurance, you mean that your vehicle insurance doesn't have any medical stipulations attached to it? Interesting....

Stingers are ugly

 

[JNickel101]

I pay the same rate as any other engineer at my facility (Iknow this because it's a common point of discussion). Anyway, my point is that I'm paying for streets, the military, police etc. These are provided by the commom citizen by the taxes they pay. Every citizen benifits from these components of the US including those that can't afford to pay for them. If we have to keep paying for profits to private insurers, we'll soon run out of money to maintain the rest of the system. In my opinion, paying my fare share is my part in maintaining this great country. Paying for some company's profits for something that important makes no sense.:soapbox:

Works awesome if everyone has that mentality....unfortunately, in this country, 50% of the population pays zero taxes. Many think they are entitled to benefits with zero pay. I am all for fairness and equality, IF I know my neighbors feel the same way.

In a way, I'm one of the few Americans who DOES know what "socialized" medicine is like. I'm in the military - we have full medical coverage that isn't based on anything other than the fact that you're on active duty. I might go to the clinic twice a year, where as my co-worker seems to go every other week. We "pay" the same (it is a "benefit" that isn't necessarily taken out of my paycheck, it is just one of those things you never see come in or out). I have no issues with this system because I KNOW we all receive the same benefits at the same "rate", no one scams their way out of it or gets extra pay because they don't feel like they should have to pay for their insurance....

 

[DoctorPhate]

lol well mine doesnt have medical stipulations because medical is "free"

I agree completely with you. I have been pushing MPs in Canada to put forward bills to make it more difficult to get welfare here for years but none of them listen. Sadly all those people that leach on the system.. they seem to be the majority of voters lol.

Atleast in the town I was in, now I'm in a bigger city with actual jobs so hopefully the MP here will listen to my proposal.

I like the australian system where you are required to show you are looking for work while your on welfare.

As for the people who don't want to pay for medicine in the USA thats going to be difficult because I find the mentality of the general public is completely different there.

I forget what country it is but there is a european country that requires all companies to provide health insurance and then anyone unemployed the tab is picked up by the government.

I think in the health care industry even if someone is a lazy putz and just doesn't want to work we should still provide him with medical care.

Some times my morals piss me off.. lol

 

[JNickel101]

Might be Sweden that does that....I know they have a pretty socialized medical system....

Australia does have their ducks in a row on a lot of issues. I like that requirement too....wish we had that in the US!

Individuals in the US definitely have the "me" mentality - what can you do for ME, what is the government doing for ME, what are you doing to give ME what I deserve....it often requires that they do nothing else but stand there with an outstretched hand waiting for it to be filled....

Damn sheep....

 

[DoctorPhate]

Indeed. The worst part is up until I got my current job I could have made more on welfare then if I had worked... And I know people who would call me a chump for working when i could sit at home and play Xbox and have the same amount of money.