Cheapest 2 inches

[kastein]

Yikes.

I hope this "make coil spacers to lift your jeep with poop pipe" thing does not become a bigger trend.

What is your license plate tag? I want to make sure I am NOT behind you when you hit a pothole, because I don't feel like getting killed by flying PVC shards and a rolled-over jeep.

EDIT: Is this some of your work too? http://thereifixedit.com/2009/10/14/this-will-only-end-in-tears/

 

[CherBear]

Holy crap, thats like installing two plastic grenades in your wheel wells...

PVC piping isnt really known for its ability to take stress like real spacers do.

Do your self a favor and keep it stock height instead of ruining a perfectly good Jeep over 30 bucks worth of parts.

 

[sjx40250]

Here is my question about these, and I guess for any spacer out there... How do they stay in IF the compression is taken away?? Limiting straps?? I know on the bottom of the coil there is a tab to keep them in, but what about holding the spring to the spacer? the spacer to the body?

The original spring mount has a "seal" that is smaller than the bump stop shaft. So you have to force it on. It ends up keeping the spacer in place when compression is off.

NOT PVC! ABS. some significant difference in mechanical properties. I have seen more risky modificaitons than mine. I have over 10K miles on this mod with no degradation. For all you nay sayers, how do you think they will fail outside of hitting them with a sledge hammer? Show me a free body diagram with the forces and magnitude and the resultant failure mode.

 

[kastein]

I've seen more risky mods too. I posted links to them.

People also run locked d35s with 35" tires. Just because you can does NOT mean you should!

and when they run around saying "it works fine for me lol" it's all fine and dandy, then their shit blows up on a trail and they suddenly stop talking about how it works fine.

Again, I'm not knowingly driving behind either of you, ever. Spend the freakin' 30 bucks and do it right. 30 bucks won't even fill an XJ's gas tank and you are betting your life on a hillbilly hack instead of doing it right.

EDIT: for instance a dumbass friend of mine once fixed his leaking steel brake line by wrapping about ten layers of electrical tape over it. It "worked fine" for 8 months and then he nearly died when it finally blew up and we spent 5 dollars doing it right.

 

[4WDlifeform]

Ouch! ABS is more durable than PVC (can withstand more beating), but in compressive strength, PVC is "stronger" for one. Infact, the only thing that I see the PVC worse in mechanical properties as compared to the ABS is IMPACT. The spacers will not see IMPACT loading! PVC spacers will be in series with a SPRING. The forces that will be applied to the spacer will be minimal. Im confidant in this design. PVC also outwieghs ABS in environmental wear, such as exposure to oil, sunlight, etc.

OK... probably not going to be enough to convince you guys... but its more important to convince myself seeing as Im the guinea pig in this project, so I could use the self assurance here. With the end caps, and the tubing, wall thickness minimum will be .4inch. Surface area is 4.9 sq in. For the spacers to fail in compression loading, a load of 38,000lbs would be necessary. Don't believe me??

Stress=Force/Area - Compressive stress of 7,900 PSI. this is the LOWEST value I could find.

7,900psi=Force/4.9insq - 7,900psi x 4.9in sq = 38,000lbs

What about stress concentrations? What if the spring doesn't sit flat? Well, the isolator will be between the PVC and spring. This provides even distribution of pressure, AND reduces any impact loading that the spacer (probably won't) see. Spacer will sit flush to the unibody.

Other stresses applied? Bending? nope. Torsion? nope. Shear? nope. Only leaves Normal stress (aka. the compression). No tension.

If you guys think im missing something, make me aware. The whole thing is goofy, yes, and i'd laugh at people doing it to, but after the research, its actually pretty reasonable. Most of you apparently think this is a disaster in the making... prove me wrong. I have yet to take on the mod, so if there is something serious, i can be convinced out of it yet haha.

as always... im open to what you have to say. good or bad. Thanks for all your input!

 

[kastein]

If you're really stuck on this idiotic idea, at least put an isolator on the top as well as the bottom of it. Else, that point loading is going to happen...

Also, yeah, you're the guinea pig, as well as the 4-5 people behind you when one side cracks and the other doesn't after you hit a pothole or something in the road.

 

[hubs97xj]

For being open to suggestions, you've ignored quite a few already. You've made up your mind, and I hope, for your sake and that of those driving around you, that you're not horribly wrong. Good luck, and keep us updated.

 

[Bdiddy11]

Im the guinea pig

Let's hope you're not a dead guinea pig after doing this...

Why not save up the $$ and do it right? No sense in being stingy when it comes to something that's just a few bucks to do it properly.

It's like the picture floating around the internet of a hispanic man working on his car while it's propped up by a number of 2x4's connected together...not the smartest thing to do.

Just keep in mind if something goes wrong and you cause an accident...what the consequences might be if someone winds up dead and they realize you've got a less then ghetto fab job done to your rig to lift it.

If you can't afford the proper lift components don't lift it. Stock Jeeps can be just as capable driven right.

 

[FlexdXJ]

The original spring mount has a "seal" that is smaller than the bump stop shaft. So you have to force it on. It ends up keeping the spacer in place when compression is off.

NOT PVC! ABS. some significant difference in mechanical properties. I have seen more risky modificaitons than mine. I have over 10K miles on this mod with no degradation. For all you nay sayers, how do you think they will fail outside of hitting them with a sledge hammer? Show me a free body diagram with the forces and magnitude and the resultant failure mode.

Ouch! ABS is more durable than PVC (can withstand more beating), but in compressive strength, PVC is "stronger" for one. Infact, the only thing that I see the PVC worse in mechanical properties as compared to the ABS is IMPACT. The spacers will not see IMPACT loading! PVC spacers will be in series with a SPRING. The forces that will be applied to the spacer will be minimal. Im confidant in this design. PVC also outwieghs ABS in environmental wear, such as exposure to oil, sunlight, etc.

OK... probably not going to be enough to convince you guys... but its more important to convince myself seeing as Im the guinea pig in this project, so I could use the self assurance here. With the end caps, and the tubing, wall thickness minimum will be .4inch. Surface area is 4.9 sq in. For the spacers to fail in compression loading, a load of 38,000lbs would be necessary. Don't believe me??

Stress=Force/Area - Compressive stress of 7,900 PSI. this is the LOWEST value I could find.

7,900psi=Force/4.9insq - 7,900psi x 4.9in sq = 38,000lbs

What about stress concentrations? What if the spring doesn't sit flat? Well, the isolator will be between the PVC and spring. This provides even distribution of pressure, AND reduces any impact loading that the spacer (probably won't) see. Spacer will sit flush to the unibody.

Other stresses applied? Bending? nope. Torsion? nope. Shear? nope. Only leaves Normal stress (aka. the compression). No tension.

If you guys think im missing something, make me aware. The whole thing is goofy, yes, and i'd laugh at people doing it to, but after the research, its actually pretty reasonable. Most of you apparently think this is a disaster in the making... prove me wrong. I have yet to take on the mod, so if there is something serious, i can be convinced out of it yet haha.

as always... im open to what you have to say. good or bad. Thanks for all your input!

You two need to stop thinking this is even a remotely good Idea! Keep your Junk away from me. Spend a few bucks on coil spacers that are designed to fit!

 

[FlexdXJ]

Let's hope you're not a dead guinea pig after doing this...

Why not save up the $$ and do it right? No sense in being stingy when it comes to something that's just a few bucks to do it properly.

It's like the picture floating around the internet of a hispanic man working on his car while it's propped up by a number of 2x4's connected together...not the smartest thing to do.

Just keep in mind if something goes wrong and you cause an accident...what the consequences might be if someone winds up dead and they realize you've got a less then ghetto fab job done to your rig to lift it.

If you can't afford the proper lift components don't lift it. Stock Jeeps can be just as capable driven right.

You make a good point dude! I hope the OP and the guy that gave him the dumb idea don't have kids. I would not haul myself around in something that Janky let alone my family. That is dangerous. Its like sending your kids to Michael Jackson's house...................BAD IDEA!:doh:

 

[4WDlifeform]

ok... not going to lie, due to the fact this is my DD, and the mentioned liability issue, I am going for proper spacers :clap: Where can I buy them? best I can find is eBay, $35 + another $8 to ship. You all say they are cheap. Where?

BUT. I want to hear it. HOW do you think the PVC will fail??? I proved the analysis. So, don't say it will break unless it is caused by something OTHER than the compression.

Sorry to seem like such a bull-headed moron... I'm really not. I just proved that its a reasonable mod as I analyzed it, and off the bat, heard about a guy that did it, and had great success. Unless this particular derivative of a spacer has failed significantly before, I'm surprised that you guys are hitting me so hard for this. Sure there are ridiculous things that people have done, but they obviously didn't properly analyze it. I'm NOT going to throw something I didn't COMPLETELY understand on my XJ. And, again, I appreciate all the input you guys give me. It helps me out a lot.

 

[SanDiegoOverland]

they just don't want you to get dead.

I think ur making a good arguement for something that doesn't need to be improved upon. Products are already available that are VERY cheap for what they are. It's just
a componant that needs a bit of $ money spent on it is all.

This community is all about innovation, but with the many thousands of xj's that have been modded, some standards withstand scrutiny and criticism and some do not.

Long story short: What works and what doesn't is already known...no reason to re-invent the wheel. Just hold back on the fries and desserts for a month or two and do it right, compadre

Best regards and happy friday

-Brian

 

[89xj]

Due to the fact that I really shouldn't spend my money at this point, I am going with what I can with the stuff laying around my garage. For the rear, shackle relocation. Will provide roughly 1.5"-2" of lift, depending how I design it.

to get 2" of lift with the shackle relocation brackets, you will need to drop the shackle mounting hole 4" down from the orginal holes on the mount/frame. this may rotate your pinion too far.

since your building these and have spare material, i would also drop the front spring mount on the frame rail in addition to the shackle relaction brackets.

i believe go-jeep has a write-up with pictures on how he did this.

 

[kastein]

ok... not going to lie, due to the fact this is my DD, and the mentioned liability issue, I am going for proper spacers :clap: Where can I buy them? best I can find is eBay, $35 + another $8 to ship. You all say they are cheap. Where?

That's not a bad price. I think Autismzone has them for a bit cheaper, I know they have blocks for very cheap, which are a bad idea due to the fact that they're blocks, and even worse as they're aluminum... but it's tough to get a molded plastic donut wrong.

If you were going to make your own blocks, I'd go for something like a Lexan* block (or solid rod stock of the proper diameter) and mill/drill/turn a hole of the proper size through the center. My personal worry on poop-pipe spacers would be one of two things. Either it's going to load unevenly and buckle, then shatter, or the glue holding the caps on will fail (or cause point loading) which will result in enough impact force to break the whole thing. Don't laugh about that idea, I've had it happen - luckily on a remote controlled potato cannon not a key suspension component. The 4" diameter breech block on our potato cannon unglued itself after a few dozen firings and put a hole through 1/2" of wood siding on the house I was living in. I just don't trust PVC (and PVC cement/adhesive) under significant loading anymore after that.

* Other suitable materials I would consider would be Makrolon (another company's impact resistant polycarbonate) and any good quality G-10 fiberglas/epoxy composite.

 

[asatxj]

Hit Dirk at DPGOffroad.com. He has them and his prices are awesome.

 

[4WDlifeform]

ok. best deal I could find were eBay... found a set for 38 shipped. Now just gotta wait... boooo! But, this will be better. Wont have to worry about it.

Thanks guys. Ill keep updated on the lift as it develops. My original goal was under 50, and I'm still under that. I'm a happy camper.

 

[FlexdXJ]

ok. best deal I could find were eBay... found a set for 38 shipped. Now just gotta wait... boooo! But, this will be better. Wont have to worry about it.

Thanks guys. Ill keep updated on the lift as it develops. My original goal was under 50, and I'm still under that. I'm a happy camper.

Thanks, I really weasn't trying to be an ass it just is not safe. We know spacers work. Hell, I'd give ya mine but they are staying on there until I can get leaf packs to swap in with my OME coils.

 

[Bdiddy11]

Your analysis may work on paper... but in a real life application it sometimes doesn't work.

Glad you're doing it the right way and not skimping on something that could be fatal.

It's called 'prevention' =) Like wearing a condom...or not smoking at the gas pump.

 

[hubs97xj]

Jeep forums are a good way to get parts (most of the stuff I've bought has even been NIB) cheaply. Spacers, shackles, AAL/BPs- a lot of the common smaller lift parts show up regularly. That's always an option, especially for "budget" projects of any sort.

 

[srimes]

BUT. I want to hear it. HOW do you think the PVC will fail??? I proved the analysis. So, don't say it will break unless it is caused by something OTHER than the compression.

Sorry to seem like such a bull-headed moron... I'm really not. I just proved that its a reasonable mod as I analyzed it, and off the bat, heard about a guy that did it, and had great success. Unless this particular derivative of a spacer has failed significantly before, I'm surprised that you guys are hitting me so hard for this. Sure there are ridiculous things that people have done, but they obviously didn't properly analyze it. I'm NOT going to throw something I didn't COMPLETELY understand on my XJ. And, again, I appreciate all the input you guys give me. It helps me out a lot.

What happens to PVC as it ages? It gets brittle. How do the mechanical properties change when it's cold? How does it handle exposure to automotive fumes and chemicals? Do you COMPLETELY understand this? No. PVC's properties can change dramatically with time and exposure. And if it does fail, how will it behave?

I work at a place that makes fiberglass pipe. A MUCH stronger material, and MUCH more stable. It could be considered for this application, in fact I briefly did. But I decided to spend less than a tank of gas on some proper spacers. Just keep you eyes open for some used ones.

I would stack plywood rings WAY before I would use PVC pipe as a spacer. Much more reliable and the failure mode would be less catastrophic. Or scrounge up some metal pipe.

But if you can't afford or find proper spacers, don't lift it.