8.8 tube welding

[RedHeep]

Got a CJ in for gears the other day and I noticed lube leaking from the plug welds.
After a day of waiting for them to find another axle, I got the okay to weld the tubes on this model 20.
I got it good and clean of debris before hand.
I preheated it for about 5 minutes and postheated it for the same.
Now, I didn't stitch it, like some, but it should be fine.
Oh, and I migged it.

Anyway, this was the best thread on tube welding I could find, so I figured this was the best place for pictures.
Here's the best pics from the job.
Sorry about the poor picture quality, but it's a crappy work camera.

Pulled this up to ask a question. Just did my first weld on the 8.8 housing and would like some feedback. Do I need to completely work over the housing/tube interface like OT did or will this be sufficient?

 

[Roxtar]

Pulled this up to ask a question. Just did my first weld on the 8.8 housing and would like some feedback. Do I need to completely work over the housing/tube interface like OT did or will this be sufficient?

I'd recommend going all the way around.
At the very least, you need to add three more of those stitches/side.
Also, it doesn't look like your getting much penetration into the housing.

 

[RedHeep]

I planned on going all the way around, I'm just trying to figure out if the weld should be wider and come over the top of the housing. I can see the housing melt in the pool, but I can't cut it apart and check penetration, so I asked. Is there any benefit to going over the weld a second time and widening the pattern to come overtop the housing?

 

[Roxtar]

I wasn't referring to the size of the weld.
It's just that the burn/heat pattern looks pretty localized.
Did you preheat?
It's not necessary to build up a big weld, as long as it's a good weld.

 

[twisted_ed]

well I have two welders in my family, with a compbined expereince of 50 plus years, they both tell me not to weld cast steel or iron, because while you can weld it successfully, you actually weaken things further, many weld on a truss to strengthen everything up, but really it just weakens it further. this is why my next axle will be a ford 9" or toyota axle with stamped housing to I can weld to it all I want.

You would honestly be better making a truss that welds to the tubes and bolts to the upper 4 or 5 bolts in the housing over top of the diff cover like many of the dana 44 bridges for front axles use for the upper control arm. The tubes will not be able to rotate at this point as they are fixed together and held to the housing, and you get the benifits of a truss while you are at it.

 

[RedHeep]

I did preheat and postheat. Wasn't sure for how long, so I held the torch there for a while, 5 minutes maybe? the housing and the tube were too hot to touch.
A hotter weld perhaps? I have my 175 set on the 4th highest current setting (out of 5) and the wire speed is only on 3 out of ten.

 

[RedHeep]

well I have two welders in my family, with a compbined expereince of 50 plus years, they both tell me not to weld cast steel or iron, because while you can weld it successfully, you actually weaken things further, many weld on a truss to strengthen everything up, but really it just weakens it further. this is why my next axle will be a ford 9" or toyota axle with stamped housing to I can weld to it all I want.

You would honestly be better making a truss that welds to the tubes and bolts to the upper 4 or 5 bolts in the housing over top of the diff cover like many of the dana 44 bridges for front axles use for the upper control arm. The tubes will not be able to rotate at this point as they are fixed together and held to the housing, and you get the benifits of a truss while you are at it.

I'm way beyond the "don't weld cast" arguement, it's been done and it's been clear that there are plenty of people who have done it and done it successfully.
No need to hash it up further or get started on it again, I'm just looking for some opinions from the guys who have done it and how to do it better.
Congrats to the two welders in your family for cornering the market on welding techniques and knowledge.

 

[Roxtar]

I did preheat and postheat. Wasn't sure for how long, so I held the torch there for a while, 5 minutes maybe? the housing and the tube were too hot to touch.
A hotter weld perhaps? I have my 175 set on the 4th highest current setting (out of 5) and the wire speed is only on 3 out of ten.

Waaaaaiiiit a minute.
I would not recommend welding it with mig.
You want to use stick with a high nickle rod for this job.
I own a machine/fab shop and employ welders; also with a great deal of experience.
Yes, cast can be welded very successfully but it has to be done right.

 

[RedHeep]

Waaaaaiiiit a minute.
I would not recommend welding it with mig.
You want to use stick with a high nickle rod for this job.
I own a machine/fab shop and employ welders; also with a great deal of experience.
Yes, cast can be welded very successfully but it has to be done right.

Again, that arguement is way beyond what I'm looking for. People have mig'd it and done it successfully. I know it's not the most ideal, but it's what I'm working with.

 

[Roxtar]

Again, that arguement is way beyond what I'm looking for. People have mig'd it and done it successfully. I know it's not the most ideal, but it's what I'm working with.

Sorry, I believe you're mistaken here.
We're not beyond that.
The general consensus here on naxja is that you do need to use stick and high nickle rod to weld cast with any degree of success.
Do a search.
If you're looking to do it however you want, don't bother asking for help.

 

[barillms]

Please....no comparisons to 44's or 9in or other axles.

I want to do this ONCE and do it RIGHT...thanks guys.

The 8.8 is actually stronger than a Dana 44.

 

[RedHeep]

Sorry, I believe you're mistaken here.
We're not beyond that.
The general consensus here on naxja is that you do need to use stick and high nickle rod to weld cast with any degree of success.
Do a search.
If you're looking to do it however you want, don't bother asking for help.

I didn't ask for help on what to use, I asked if my weld needed to be more like what was posted in the previous picture. I assumed (sorry my fault) that since nobody jumped on OT for using a mig and for how his weld looked on that amc20 that we wouldn't need to rehash the "you must use an arc welder and high nickel rod" arguement.
I have a mig, it's what I'm using. On several posts now I've tried to avoid getting into the debate over what to use. It's a debate that always has two groups of people who don't agree.
Like I said, it's not the best solution, I've accepted that.

You're thinking way too much about this.
It ain't rocket science.
Just weld them up.
You want four 1" welds around the tube/housing.
Mig is fine, stick is better.
Preheat the casting, weld, and add a little heat afterwards to slow down the cooling.

I'm curious why your opinion changed?

 

[twisted_ed]

I'm way beyond the "don't weld cast" arguement, it's been done and it's been clear that there are plenty of people who have done it and done it successfully.
No need to hash it up further or get started on it again, I'm just looking for some opinions from the guys who have done it and how to do it better.
Congrats to the two welders in your family for cornering the market on welding techniques and knowledge.

Do you have a learning disability, if you read what I wrote you will see that I said you can weld it sucessfully, that is not the argument in question, but that welding cast tends to weaken it. It is a proven fact that welding to cast will weaken it further. I was only trying to help you out and you had to be a dick about it, grow up, seriously, the two welders in my family have more expereince in one finger welding than tham the majority of the people on here so I trust what they have to say. I have not idea what your comment about corning the market has to do with anything but its obvious you are ignorant to any suggestions and tips that myself and others have to say. so enjoy your new axle have fun.

 

[RedHeep]

Do you have a learning disability, if you read what I wrote you will see that I said you can weld it sucessfully, that is not the argument in question, but that welding cast tends to weaken it. It is a proven fact that welding to cast will weaken it further. I was only trying to help you out and you had to be a dick about it, grow up, seriously, the two welders in my family have more expereince in one finger welding than tham the majority of the people on here so I trust what they have to say. I have not idea what your comment about corning the market has to do with anything but its obvious you are ignorant to any suggestions and tips that myself and others have to say. so enjoy your new axle have fun.

See the smilie? "Untwist" your panties.
You jumped into the middle of a thread I revived to ask a specific question and didn't bother to read the rest of the thread in the first place. Welding to cast and it's pros/cons has been well documented, I wasn't looking for a debate about it.
I'm quite certain I don't have a learning disability and if I wanted to be a dick, you would have known it. If that's all it takes to rile you up, you should consider thicker skin.

 

[BonesBrosChris]

jeeze.... You guys just need to take a deep breath.

 

[kewlkatdady]

This just turned into the official Midol thread...

 

[IntrepidXJ]

FWIW, I welded the tubes in my D30 before trussing. Mine is similar to the pics by OT where I went all the way to the top. I cut a few small notches into the housing that I filled with weld, kinda like a mechanical lock. Probably overkill for the D30, but I had it on my bench anyways. I pre-heated, MIGed, and post-heated. If it breaks, I will get another housing and start over...no big deal.

 

[Roxtar]

I'm curious why your opinion changed?

You're right.
Honestly, I don't know what I was thinking on that post.
I know better, and now so do you.
I'm chalking mine up to age and a miss spent youth (who thought I'd need those brain cells some day) :dunno:

 

[monkeyevil]

Pulled this up to ask a question. Just did my first weld on the 8.8 housing and would like some feedback. Do I need to completely work over the housing/tube interface like OT did or will this be sufficient?

The bead looks good, but your heavy on the tube side, shift the weld a little higher up the edge of the housing there... I would do 3 stitches about that length spaced around the tube on both sides. Alternate from side to side.

MIG is just fine. Pre-heat and throw a welding blanket over it to cool slow if your anal about it.

All the tubes I (and JCR) have ever welded have been with a MIG. We have NEVER had a failure... not even a crack. On our own rigs, or on a customers. Back in the day I shaved my 8.8 (totally cut the bottom out) and welded the tubes (all with mig) with no metal prep but whisking the rust off. Wheeled it for YEARS with no problems.

That isn't to say that I recommend welding a link bracket onto a cast housing (with a mig or anything else) but in this application your just looking to add some insurance, and a MIG will do just fine.

 

[monkeyevil]

...