8.8 Questions

[ddeadserious]

So I've decided that rather than regear my 8.25 with my tax return money, I'm going to do an 8.8 swap.

Here are my reasons:

1. I'm looking for an improvement in braking, and rear discs are my answer. But between all the hassle and money of doing the rear disc swap on the 8.25, I'm just going to get an 8.8 with discs already on it, requiring no disassembly.
2. I need to regear, and can't afford to pay a shop to do it. So I've got my friend who will do it for me, but the less work he does, the more I feel I'm not taking advantage of him. But I've found an 8.8 with 4.10's already in it, and some used d30 4.10s for a nice price.
3. My 8.25 was involved in a 60mph accident when it was in my last XJ, and I believe that's why I'm experiencing vibes at 55+ now, because I've ruled out driveline and tire vibes.

So onto the tech questions or whatever:

1. I've got some rough country stainless braided brake line, does the 8.8 have a hole that this bolt for the brake line will thread into, or will I need to weld a nut of the correct thread onto the axle?
2. What is YOUR experience with the whole proportioning valve thing? Will I need one or will it be fine as is?
3. I can't disable my vehicle at any time(other than the time I'm ACTUALLY installing the axle) while I'm doing this swap. I'll be getting an angle finder, so I can get the pinion angle right. So I want to weld the perches on at school in my welding class(my home welder isn't strong enough to burn through the perches or tubes). So the plan is to have it ready , so it will bolt in in a matter of hours, so what I'm asking for, is measurements of the perches from center to center, and/or from inner/outer edge of the axle tube, to inner/outer edge of the perches. I can figure out the shock mounts on my own.
4. The one I'm going to buy has an LSD, what are your thoughts on this? I know it'll be a downgrade from my 8.25 with the no-slip, but my wheeling:street driving ratio is about 1:60, so vibeless, good accelerating, good braking driving, is more important than trail traction at this time.(With the money from selling the 8.25 locker, I'll probably try to buy a locker for the 8.8 or turdy.) I guess I just don't really get the idea of a LSD, so please, explain how reliable it is in terms of really locking up the axle.

Am I crazy for thinking this will be this simple of a swap? If I'm missing any thing, please let me know. Just want to cover all my bases before I get knee deep in this.

 

[ddeadserious]

Sorry it's so long-winded.

 

[ghettocruiser]

Sounds like a good choice. Ill comment on your reasons and your questions...

Reasons:
1) While the disc swap isnt difficult, it is much nicer to not have to do anything. Still plan on rebuilding the e-brakes, and installing new axle bearings/seals in the ends of the tubes. You'll thank yourself later. Napa has all the hardware you need for the e-brakes, and I always like timken for the bearings and seals.
2) Im in the same boat. I can regear my own axles, but I dont want to if I can help it. haha. However, if you need to regear, the 8.8, in my opinion, is a GREAT axle to learn on. Its very simple to regear. Ive done 4 and they have all but built themselves.

Questions:
1) The 8.8 will have a short stubby vent. The brake lines are different... But, I think the threads are the same on all axle vent tubes for the most part. So if your 8.25 brake line bolts to the axle with the vent tube, you can most likely swap it over like that. Otherwise, get creative. The last one I did, I just welded a bolt to the tube, and used a lock nut to secure the brake line. I was able to move it where I wanted that way too...

2) My D44 has rear discs. They are almost exact to the 8.8. They are D35 brakes. My experience is they work great. You will want to swap to the ZJ proportioning valve. Or atleast the internals. Check stu olsen's website, he has a good write up. Or....you can delete the prop valve all together, run the fronts right off the master cylinder, and put a wilwood adj. valve for the rears. That woudl be my second choice...

3) I cant remember the measurements... and I dont have an 8.8 under my jeep so I cant check. However, my advice would be to just mock it up real quick. Tack the perches in place, then either burn them in with the axle under the jeep, or remove it. It will only take you a few extra minutes, and it will be RIGHT. You have to "mock" it up that way anyway to set your pinion angle. Here is what I would do. Set the perches on tubes, lower jeep down on axle and load it so the Jeep is sitting at ride level. Set your pinion angle, tack the perches and the shock mounts while youre at it. THen lift up the jeep, burn it on, and your done. Simple.

4) The 8.8 LSD is very simple. Its very easy to take apart and rebuild. What I did on my buddies YJ, is rebuild the LSD, and I used instructions to stack the clutch pack differently, and it is MUCH tighter than factory. It still works great on the street, but Ive seen him lift a tire and still have plenty of traction. I think its a good balance between street driving and having alittle extra traction for off-road. You can find the info on the clutch pack online...and Ive seen Ford rebuild kits on ebay for pretty cheap. Its not hard... Just make sure you soak the new friction discs in diff oil for awhile before you smack it together.

You arent crazy. The swap is very simple. The hardest part physically is cutting the darn stock mounts off. The second is welding everything up. You'll need to decide what you want to do to hook up the e-brake cables...but there is plenty of info on here.


Haha..wow... now THAT was long winded

Justin

 

[ddeadserious]

Sounds like a good choice. Ill comment on your reasons and your questions...

Reasons:
1) While the disc swap isnt difficult, it is much nicer to not have to do anything. Still plan on rebuilding the e-brakes, and installing new axle bearings/seals in the ends of the tubes. You'll thank yourself later. Napa has all the hardware you need for the e-brakes, and I always like timken for the bearings and seals.
2) Im in the same boat. I can regear my own axles, but I dont want to if I can help it. haha. However, if you need to regear, the 8.8, in my opinion, is a GREAT axle to learn on. Its very simple to regear. Ive done 4 and they have all but built themselves.

Questions:
1) The 8.8 will have a short stubby vent. The brake lines are different... But, I think the threads are the same on all axle vent tubes for the most part. So if your 8.25 brake line bolts to the axle with the vent tube, you can most likely swap it over like that. Otherwise, get creative. The last one I did, I just welded a bolt to the tube, and used a lock nut to secure the brake line. I was able to move it where I wanted that way too...

2) My D44 has rear discs. They are almost exact to the 8.8. They are D35 brakes. My experience is they work great. You will want to swap to the ZJ proportioning valve. Or atleast the internals. Check stu olsen's website, he has a good write up. Or....you can delete the prop valve all together, run the fronts right off the master cylinder, and put a wilwood adj. valve for the rears. That woudl be my second choice...

3) I cant remember the measurements... and I dont have an 8.8 under my jeep so I cant check. However, my advice would be to just mock it up real quick. Tack the perches in place, then either burn them in with the axle under the jeep, or remove it. It will only take you a few extra minutes, and it will be RIGHT. You have to "mock" it up that way anyway to set your pinion angle. Here is what I would do. Set the perches on tubes, lower jeep down on axle and load it so the Jeep is sitting at ride level. Set your pinion angle, tack the perches and the shock mounts while youre at it. THen lift up the jeep, burn it on, and your done. Simple.

4) The 8.8 LSD is very simple. Its very easy to take apart and rebuild. What I did on my buddies YJ, is rebuild the LSD, and I used instructions to stack the clutch pack differently, and it is MUCH tighter than factory. It still works great on the street, but Ive seen him lift a tire and still have plenty of traction. I think its a good balance between street driving and having alittle extra traction for off-road. You can find the info on the clutch pack online...and Ive seen Ford rebuild kits on ebay for pretty cheap. Its not hard... Just make sure you soak the new friction discs in diff oil for awhile before you smack it together.

You arent crazy. The swap is very simple. The hardest part physically is cutting the darn stock mounts off. The second is welding everything up. You'll need to decide what you want to do to hook up the e-brake cables...but there is plenty of info on here.


Haha..wow... now THAT was long winded

Justin

Thanks for the in depth response, I appreciate it.

I'll get to eliminate the whole e-brake issue. I've got no e-brake handle inside, and I've owned 6 vehicles, and the e-brake has either not worked or has been disconnected, and I've never found myself needing it(also, Michigan doesn't have inspections.

Thanks again for your insight,
Mike

 

[ddeadserious]

Any thing for anyone else to add?

 

[RCP Phx]

Would this include your an idiot for running without an e-brake or parking brake!!!!Most sanctioned groups REQUIRE it (if isnt doing it,they should probably contact their insurance group).Theres a very good reason for it!!Driveshaft brakes are only for comp buggies only(break a driveshaft and....)

 

[ddeadserious]

Would this include your an idiot for running without an e-brake or parking brake!!!!Most sanctioned groups REQUIRE it (if isnt doing it,they should probably contact their insurance group).Theres a very good reason for it!!Driveshaft brakes are only for comp buggies only(break a driveshaft and....)

Hmm..
I'm not a part of any "sanctioned group", so there's no worries there.

I don't have a driveshaft brake, my transmission holds my jeep just fine in my slightly inclined driveway.

And as said above, I've owned 6 vehicles in the past 5 years, and the e-brake didn't work from when I purchased them, and I've never found myself wishing I had one(literally, never). This isn't an intense rock crawler, it's just my DD, weekend warrior.

We should call names, that's how we give insight and constructive criticism. Thanks.

 

[RCP Phx]

Thank God you live in Michigan!
Edit:Im soory about this for everyone else that might be endangered by this guy!

 

[ddeadserious]

Thank God you live in Michigan!

Yeah dude, e-brakes are crucial to safe trail and daily driving. My vehicle is definitely a hazard.

edit: after a quick review of the first page of your most recent posts, you seem to be a c ock to everyone, and have a negative attitude in general, so I won't get offended.

 

[RCP Phx]

Yeah dude, e-brakes are crucial to safe trail and daily driving. My vehicle is definitely a hazard.

edit: after a quick review of the first page of your most recent posts, you seem to be a c ock to everyone, and have a negative attitude in general, so I won't get offended.

My concern is never for your praise,Ive been doing this for over 35 years!Safety is always #1 in my book!Yes I usually take the "devils" advacote for a reason!Your junk on the road not only creates a hazard to other people but affects everyones insurance rates(and they are high enough already)!Your out here broadcasting to the folks that WE dont care about rules or regulations,thats really bad bad for the rest of us!

 

[jeeperzcreeperz]

...

 

[jeeperzcreeperz]

I guess my jeep is junk too. I don't have a e-brake. I just have a dual resevor master cylinder(if I lose a front line I still have rear brakes or vice versa) and my park brake is a 4-1 t-case and 1st gear.

 

[09moabxj]

Easy....Phoenix. You are the man, just keep thinking that. Find something better to do than start some bs!!!

 

[CanMan]

Ill snap a pic tomorrow of what we do to to the ebrake cables when swapping in an 8.8 or discs.

Basically, we cut down the stock drum brake e brake lever(the one the cable is attached to behind the shoe), weld the cut down part to the ebrake lever on the backing plate, and adjust the cables/ebrake shoes as necessary.

 

[ghettocruiser]

Hmm... Ok. So my 94 HAS an ebrake. In fact I went out of my way to make the cables work with the discs and adjusted it all to work.

BUT I NEVER USE IT. hahahaha. I have crap piled up in the little cubby that the ebrake hand sits in, and I never bother pulling it up. I dont think I used it more than a couple times in the years that Ive had the jeep.

So does having it and not using make my jeep junk and make me a danger to your so called "society"??? When the hell do you even use an ebrake when out on the road and driving??? What does that have to do with putting other drivers in danger and raising insurance rates.

ddeadserious good luck with your swap.

J.

 

[tayman]

most of you have automatics don't you..... if you're wheelin' with a stick, you pretty much NEED a E-brake!!! For me it's not a question of if I want one or not..... I NEED one!

 

[89xj]

is it an ebrake(emergency) or is it a parking brake, or both.

btw, i lost my master cylinder going down an incline at 50mph and held the button while pulling the ebrake and was able to keep control of the vehicle. if you dont use the ebrake when its parked, thats great, but its sure handy when you need it.

i belive the point to all this about the ebrake is that your jeep or any car should be functioning properly when out on the road with others. same aplies to swaybars being connected. doesnt matter how careful you drive, its about how careless other drive.

 

[ghettocruiser]

Ok ok.... Ill give ya that. If you loose brakes, a working e-brake would come in handy. Didnt think of that... And that would definitely effect others safety and what not.

So...Im on board with trying to get the ebrake working. Auto or not...

J.

 

[tayman]

I use it for an anti-rollback on hills..... sure would help on a hydraulic line being cut!