- Location
- REDLANDS, CA. (SoCal)
If you're going to lock the closet door, bring matches.
(Now, we just need to strip Churches of their "tax-exempt" status to reduce the bite on the rest of us...)
When your doing that kinda work then you deserve a tax break.
I am a "born again Christian", I am a felon also.
But I dont push my religion upon others and I dont want them to push their beleifs or lack their of on me.
Everything is about respect I guess...
It's also worth noting that the Roman Catholic Church is the single most profitable and least productive organisation in the United States -
Got a citation for that?
Anecdotal synthesis - can't remember anything I've read. It's largely borne of observation.
(If you are a Roman Catholic, I did not mean to offend. The comment was referring to the Church itself, and not the individual members. I hope that was clear.)
I would say that makes you a rarity as well - as the first "born-again" who doesn't preach to everyone about being "saved." Gets tiresome rather rapidly. I do enjoy a good intellectual debate on spiritualism, religion, or other related topics (solipsism and "Where does God live?" are also favourites,) but most people can't separate intellect from emotion and have a good, stimulating debate. Pity.
And, I'm not going to say that an outfit pursuing truly humanitarian goals doesn't deserve a tax break - but it would then become a matter of how do we properly sort out which organisations are and which are not, and how can we ensure that they stay sorted properly? And we can also run into the problem of organisations "taking advantage" of the situation and doing "just enough" to maintain a tax-exempt status, while working to preserve their own wealth and trappings.
I'm sure you understand now where I'm coming from.
But, since you have joined in and seem to be able to view this sort of thing from an intellectual level (rather than the visceral level from which I am usually confronted,) I'd like to hear your possible solution. It is from a meeting of the minds that we can solve problems, and we have the beginnings of such a meeting here, methinks.
I definetly dont preach, mainly because I remember being the non christian and having people preach to me, lol.
If I am talking to someone and they are interested I talk about my story, but I dont ever try to get them to cross over, haha.
I couldnt debate you about things such as "Where God lives" because I dont know, I simply dont have all the answers, I havent even read the whole bible.
I know what is said in the bible and what is expected of me from my God, and I try my hardest to live up to those expectations, but I am a sinner and thats it...
(Dont really wanna go into details cause' thats a whole different thing, lol)
I think the tax breaks could be seperated by how much they actually do for the community and the world. But also make sure they arent pushing any kind of political agenda.
And only part of their business should get breaks.
I know my church also runs a publishing business for he books our pastor writes and the bibles they make, I dont think that should be exempt, simply because that is a seperate entitee all together.
I'm a "christian" I don't think gettin preachy helps at all. If someone has a question, cool, a conversation, right on, to vote my beliefs, ya bet your ass. I'm gonna do the go out on a limb, you know I will. I think churches should pay taxes, they "make" money, so pay taxes. However, I feel that the church should speak out against what is "biblically" wrong, and not worry so much about the cash flow. Ain't nobody takin cash with them, and I do not think God needs a new car, or a big house. I belong to a church that is pretty good about feeding the hungry, and caring for others. The "tax free" status of most institutes is questionable in my eyes. Look at the salaries of the executives of such organizations. I say, pay up suckers.
Look at the salaries of the executives of such organizations. I say, pay up suckers.
I'm a "christian" I don't think gettin preachy helps at all. If someone has a question, cool, a conversation, right on, to vote my beliefs, ya bet your ass. I'm gonna do the go out on a limb, you know I will. I think churches should pay taxes, they "make" money, so pay taxes. However, I feel that the church should speak out against what is "biblically" wrong, and not worry so much about the cash flow. Ain't nobody takin cash with them, and I do not think God needs a new car, or a big house. I belong to a church that is pretty good about feeding the hungry, and caring for others. The "tax free" status of most institutes is questionable in my eyes. Look at the salaries of the executives of such organizations. I say, pay up suckers.
While there are a few unscrupulous "TV preachers" who prey on gullible believers, the vast majority in the ministry certainly earn their keep. Every pastor I've known doesn't work a 9-5 job; it's typically 24/7. They deal with so much crap that many end up leaving the ministry. And most don't make a lot of money. It's ludicrous that society celebrates sports stars, movie and TV actors, etc., earning millions of dollars each year and then to criticize the salaries of people who work in ministry. Total perversion!
I don't criticise their salaries - although I do criticise the salaries of "athletes", corporate executives, and suchlike. POTUS makes ~$450K/annum - why should anyone make more than that? Quite a few of the most vocal people make more in one year than I can look forward to making in the rest of a long life... And whoever started holding up "athletes" as "heroes" should have his head examined...
And 5-90, you have a very narrow view of money as it concerns churches. I don't know what happened to make you so antagonistic or if you're just jealous. Perhaps the Catholic ("Roman" is a misnomer) church does take in more than any other church--I don't know--but do you know how many missions, schools, universities, hospitals, orphanages, homes for the elderly and handicapped, and other institutions it operates around the world? I'll wager to you that it's significantly more than most, if not all, other churches combined. And that takes a lot of money. Do a little research before making ignorant statements.
I'm not arguing that there are Churches that do good works - many of them do. I don't understand their "tax exempt" status (as a Church, not the pastors/priests/ministers/whatever.) Look at the trappings involved - they obviously don't put all of the money they collect into humanitarian efforts, salaries, or upkeep of their individual "employees" (for lack of a better word.) So, where does the rest go? A good chunk of that money, put back into the public coffers (like the bite that the rest of us feel,) would help the average individual if it resulted in a reduction of the tax bite. Or, put it into paying off the "public debt" and solving trade imabalce problems, and that would help out as well.
Any church, large or small, operates on the tithes and offerings of its members. Otherwise, they'd fail to exist. Most aren't mega churches, but small to medium size that carefully budget their finances. None are "for profit," but some are responsible enough to budget for unforseen expenses.
Unforeseen expenses strike everyone - but not everyone can afford (under the current setup) to save something ahead for them - why do you think credit debt is so high? Granted, there are quite a few people who have "lived beyond their means" and incurred debt, but bona fide problems like medical expenses on the uninsured or underinsured caused trouble. Case in point - my wife had to have a polysomnography (sleep study) a few months ago. After insurance, our portion was $1800. Total cost of the PSG was something like $2400 - spendy, but why doesn't insurance cover more? And don't even get me started on dental...
What's really at issue here? Calls for taxation on churches, the overwhelming majority of which are trying to do good in a society that glorifies immorality and celebrates debauchery? Criticisms of their finances, as if they they are profit-making machines with bloated executive salaries? Com'on, get a life!