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Your Ideal XJ

I would have to agree that for me my Jeep was the perfect XJ:

http://
Moab08116.jpg


The ONLY thing that I regret on it was not doing cut out rockers.



But things change over time and IF I was to build an XJ today the requirements would be a little different:
New body style XJ
NWHBC cage
HP D30 vacume w 4.88's and lock right (or similar).
D44 w 4.88's and ARB.
4" lift with modifications to get 12" travel shocks.
Trimmed to fit 33" Goodyear MTR's on nice wheels (Stauns if necessary).
Custom Mid length front 3 or 4 link.
Custom skids and cut out rock sliders (shortened doors).
Much less spare parts and recovery gear than I used to carry.

It would be completely daily drivable and still very capable on the trail.

The reality is that I want a light weight buggy and not another XJ.
Michael
 
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/reader-rides/4639/

XJ-R.JPG





this was more or less my original plan. In a perfect world where money wasn't a problem, I would have done something very similar to this with my xj and bought a late model and followed something very similar to Darren's ideal rig plan for an off road rig.
 
What do you wish you had done that you didn't do?

I regret not putting my initial build money in a hybrid cage for safety and unibody longevity. I also regret the weld quality on my DIY frame stiffeners, they're ugly but have held. I could do much better now. I also regret installing 3 clutches within a year only to find out you do NOT re-surface a 4.0 flywheel, READ THE FAWKING MANUAL ( I say to myself).
Poorly designed OEM motormounts and flexy springs combined with a 5-speed is a very bad combination but an excellent learning experience:eek:.

I have no regrets on the rig I started with; Late Model with a 5-speed although I wish it wasn't white. I'm at a decision point with regards to gearing. Running a 5-speed, 33's and 4.10 gears seem to be slightly underpowered but good for MPG's. I could use lower gears on the trail though. Possibly after a cage I will look into the tera-low kit or a D300 to get rid of the planetary gears. I understand the planetaries rob a lot of horsepower. There's no getting around it, I need more power.

I absolutely love the fact that I kept it low,somewhere around +4-4.5. The TNT belly skid is a PIA to remove but indespensable on the trail. After all the clutch changes I can have it off fairly quickly in 10-15 min. The TNT y-link and trackbar system has been awesome although I surmise most of my good experience has to do with low control arm angles. It works for me. Keep in low, armor it as lightly as possible, and cage it.
 
I regret not putting my initial build money in a hybrid cage for safety and unibody longevity. I also regret the weld quality on my DIY frame stiffeners, they're ugly but have held. I could do much better now. I also regret installing 3 clutches within a year only to find out you do NOT re-surface a 4.0 flywheel, READ THE FAWKING MANUAL ( I say to myself).
Poorly designed OEM motormounts and flexy springs combined with a 5-speed is a very bad combination but an excellent learning experience:eek:.

I have no regrets on the rig I started with; Late Model with a 5-speed although I wish it wasn't white. I'm at a decision point with regards to gearing. Running a 5-speed, 33's and 4.10 gears seem to be slightly underpowered but good for MPG's. I could use lower gears on the trail though. Possibly after a cage I will look into the tera-low kit or a D300 to get rid of the planetary gears. I understand the planetaries rob a lot of horsepower. There's no getting around it, I need more power.

I absolutely love the fact that I kept it low,somewhere around +4-4.5. The TNT belly skid is a PIA to remove but indespensable on the trail. After all the clutch changes I can have it off fairly quickly in 10-15 min. The TNT y-link and trackbar system has been awesome although I surmise most of my good experience has to do with low control arm angles. It works for me. Keep in low, armor it as lightly as possible, and cage it.

I got better fuel economy with 4.88s and 33s than I did with 4.10 and 33s. Keeping the speed @60 on the freeway was the key.
 
1985 XJ
Dana 70 front and rear with 7.17 gears
ARB air lockers
GM 502CID V8
TH400 automatic
NP203/NP205 doubler transfer case
full exo
12 inch lift
44 inch iroks
Beadlocks
Hydro brakes and steering.
Dual Optima yellow tops
Onboard air
Onboard Welder
Suspension seats front and rear
full length roof rack with 4 lights
CSI 1200# winch on reciever for front or rear
and cup holders cause you cant forget to stay hydrated.
 
My ideal XJ is my current Jeep only finished! Currently its a 92 4.0l AW4 d30/chrysler 8.25 rear. 5.5 RE long arm kit w/RE monotube shocks and SYE. 33" BFG mud KM2's on black steel wheels. The rear end is locked with an ARB, 4.56's, Yukon shafts and I forget who makes the dif cover but its 1/4" steel with 1/2" outer ring and countersunk bolts. The front end is still open 4.56's. The long shafts in the front are 297 u joint units. The short side is still the 260 setup. The engine is a Golen 4.6l stroker with RE throttlebody, K&N FIPK, 5.0l injectors, adjustable fuel pressure regulater, Doug Thorley ceramic coated header/flowmaster muffler, bulletproof engine mounts, engine mounted air compressor(Kilby brackets/pulleys, york compressor), 3 electric fans(no engine driven fan), aluminum radiator, jet thermostat and high flow water pump. The battery is relocated to the rear, inside Jeep. The exterior has a custom roof rack which holds the spare 33" and CB antenna. Cut out front fenders and slice/roll rear fenders. Custom trail dents through out. Tail lights are solid red with chrome paint removed (off a XJ Wagoneer, looks sick), KC fogs on the front bumper, Hella H4 conversion headlights. The interior is mostly stock besides some random switches, battery in the back along with air tank, a bunch of stereo equipment thats not hooked up, and Cobra CB. I'm sure I forgot something!

My future plans are low range t-case gears, RADesigns tranny shifter setup, front ARB and CVD's, aftermarket drive shafts, rework all the inner fender wells for 35's, beef up tie rod and drag link, interior roll cage with certian points coming through to protect critical exterior areas like windshield, edges of roof and corners. Move the fuel tank up half way thru rear floor, custom built bumpers with a winch up front, get rid of roof rack, hack off roof behind rear doors and have a soft top built, spare tire mounted inside back, rear seat removed, move battery behind front seats, some sorta nice racing type seats up front with 5 point harnesses, find a way to get my engine tuned, roller rockers for engine, and build a switch panel so all my switches are in one spot. I'm sure i missed something here too! haha. I call this stage 2. Once I get a welder and tube bender its on!
 
Interesting to read the regrets

Can someone explain cut out rock rails to me? I nearly got rid of my AJ rails when the cage was done but ended up integrating the rails. I love pivoting on them and having that stick out ness. If you do cutouts do you not run the risk of creating door interference?

On 4.10's with 33s. I am fine with that ratio for me. What might be very cool is to combine it with a rocktrac 4:2 TC. I have never not had the power I want but then again maybe I am overly conservative :)
Interesting on the clutch. I just redid mine Never had any issues but I did RTFM.
 
I got better fuel economy with 4.88s and 33s than I did with 4.10 and 33s. Keeping the speed @60 on the freeway was the key.

No Shit? Ill keep that in mind.
 
Lots of good advice so far.

Well ever since creating this thread, I've been tossing ideas around of my 'ideal' XJ. I've learned some things with my current Jeep over the past five years. What works, what doesn't work, what's essential, and what's a waste of money.

So here's my 'ideal' XJ.

1991-1996 4 Door: Love the look of a two door, hate the functionality. You can still find an HO with low miles for a decent price. Plus replacement parts are very easy to come by.
4.0L HO: Keep it stock, and reliable. Bonus of the HO is it has a rev-limiter! :D
AX15: Personal choice here, but I like the control and simplicity of the manual transmission. After driving autos all day on the Firedrill run, I came to realize I love my manual both on and off road.
NP231/Atlas: I'd go for the 231 stock. Great aftermarket, and stupidly simple. However, with a manual gearing is essential off road (especially in rocks), and I would strongly consider an Atlas 5.0 or 4.3 (leaning toward 4.3). The Teraflex Tera Low for the 231 is great (I love mine), but it's still a chain driven case. I would consider an Atlas a worthwhile investment that would out last the rig.
Dana 30: The Dirty Thirty is highly under rated in my opinion. It's a tough little axle. I would toss some 4.56's in it, a full case locker, and maybe a Currie steering setup. Stock 297 shafts, and some fresh Spicer u-joints seem to work well. I wouldn't get too elaborate other wise you may as well build a HP44.
Dana 44: If you can find one for a decent price, I'd toss an XJ 44 in the rear. I wouldn't think twice about running a 29 spline 8.25 though. 4.56 gears, full case locker, and maybe some disc brakes (making sure to keep the e-brake functional!) and your set. Of course a RuffStuff cover would be added to both diffs.
Springs: 3.5-4.5" springs. Coils in the front, spring/shackle combo in the rear. Choose your make.
Arms: The simple solution would be run some aftermarket short arms. At 3-4" you don't need long arms, and I think they are over rated anyways. If I had a lot of time on my hands, I'd look into fabbing up a mid-arm 3-link at 4.5".
Shocks: Bilstein or FOX. I like the new Bilstein 5160's, but in reality 5125's are an excellent choice for the PNW. How often do you hear your shocks boiling?
Tires/Wheels: 33x12.5 tires on 15x8 wheels. Personally, I think most radial MT's perform about the same. Which brand are you loyal to, or which tires are the 'cool kids' running? For some of the tread patterns I'd look at getting them siped for winter performance. I think a 33x12.5 will get the job done 90% of the time, and save you and the rig the extra stress in the long run. For rims, I'd consider the tried and true steelies, or go with an aluminum for the extra style points (be different). Unless I'm running bias plys or sub 5psi consistently, I don't think bead locks are worth the money. A radial flexes pretty well aired down, and they tend to hold a bead pretty well.
Armor: Bumpers would be low profile/light weight (.120 wall). I'd like to have the winch recessed behind the front cross member. Maximize approach/departure angles. Rocker replacements would be made for additional clearance. A full belly pan would be used, and I'd try to maximize belly height. A tank skid would be mandatory. I'd also consider some quarter panel protection and door armor for the tighter ORV areas.
Cage: I think a cage is essential in a rig that gets wheeled. A simple flop can easily turn into a roll over. I've pushed my luck too many times over the years. As much sense as a Hybrid cage makes, I'd probably go with a standard internal cage like the T&J. Add some triangulation, and you're golden.
Winch: WARN. Line speed is crucial. I love my XP, but I'd also consider a TI or 8274.
Misc: Keep the carpet and creature comforts. It's what makes an XJ an XJ. I'd probably stick with a stock quiet exhaust. A pair of Light Force's on the front bumper are nice for country roads. On board air would likely be CO2. Electric compressors haven't really impressed me from what I've seen, and I'd keep the stock compressor for AC duty.

Overall, I don't want a trailer queen. I want a reliable rig, that can be driven every day, and travel cross country in comfort. I don't have any real interest in hanging out in Crushers or running the Busy Wild every weekend. My 'ideal' XJ would be capable of running almost any trail in the Northwest, and driving home comfortably after.

:dunno:
 
Interesting to read the regrets

Can someone explain cut out rock rails to me? I nearly got rid of my AJ rails when the cage was done but ended up integrating the rails. I love pivoting on them and having that stick out ness. If you do cutouts do you not run the risk of creating door interference?

On 4.10's with 33s. I am fine with that ratio for me. What might be very cool is to combine it with a rocktrac 4:2 TC. I have never not had the power I want but then again maybe I am overly conservative :)
Interesting on the clutch. I just redid mine Never had any issues but I did RTFM.

When I cut my rockers I left the sill plate intact and made the outer cut just below the first radius. This left a good gap between the doors and the rockers. I've taken some serious hits on them and if they have moved it's not obvious. I decided to leave the gap after talking with Alex and specifically the tubes he welded on his rockers which seemed to add extra leverage and push the rockers into the doors. Mine seem to stick out far enough to pivot on stuff without ruining the doors completely. I used 2"x 6" 1/4" wall with 45's on each end and left a little long on the front to tie in a cage eventually. I will eventually add rocker supports from the frame to tie everything into the cage.

The clutch issues I had were a combination of things that were all causing the drivetrain to buck very bad. Everything was moving and I broke several motor-mount bolts during the learning experience. It's all good now, I have a new flywheel, high quality clutch ( I suggest one from NAPA), M.O.R.E. motor mounts, and stiffer springs, the drivetrain is so smooth now.

What does the rocktrac case come out of?
 
Lots of good advice so far.....

Overall, I don't want a trailer queen. I want a reliable rig, that can be driven every day, and travel cross country in comfort. I don't have any real interest in hanging out in Crushers or running the Busy Wild every weekend. My 'ideal' XJ would be capable of running almost any trail in the Northwest, and driving home comfortably after.

:dunno:


Puss...



















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I like my setup, but there are things I would really like to change and do. I wouldnt mind a 4.3 Atlas. Slightly wider wheel base with dana 44hp front along with a dana 44 rear. Everything built out of chromoly instead of heavy mild steel to lighten the pig up a bit. Aluminum full interior cage and aluminum top hat. PSC power steering pump and box. Last but not least a stroker motor. Im with Torx on the ability to drive it anywhere and be comfortable to wheel it and go home, I guess thats because I drive my everyday.
 
hay sideshow, rocktrack comes out of a Rubicon. i myself would love one of them.
 
Just a few notes that haven't really been discussed at length that I think this thread deserves:

1. I have said this before and I will say this again. Anything over 33's on an XJ is asking for trouble down the road. A cage, frame stifeners, etc, etc etc all can help but personally I think we end up with way too much time/money/weight into stiffening the steering box area, frame rails, cage, support, rocker tie ins, rear suspension points due to the weak "frame rails".

2. The D30 is a cheap (very strong) axle in stock form. A few minor enhancements with stock 297 joint axles and a full case locker and it does VERY well.

3. The upgrade to a D44 is relatively expensive and provides VERY few strength improvements in my mind (pinion is the primary improvement in my mind).

4. Axle gear choices also help limit tire sizes. If you accept the D30 info above, with 4.88's a 33" tire is about perfect. Given this, the cost to go above a 33" tire on a cherokee is VERY expensive in cost and weight (D44 (only for deeper gears), frame stiffening, cage, etc like stated above).

5. I think there are two general trains of thought. Cherokee's are cheap and disposable. Put on a lift, axles, etc and tranfer them from body to body as needed. OR the alternative is the idea of cage, stiffeners, bigger tires and keep cutting body to save weight until it is a hybrid Cherobuggy.

Just a few thoughts.
Michael
 
well funny this topic came up. i have been rolling this very thing throo my head for about a year now...

For me. i have plans for a body modd and a 1/2.

4dr platform. im planning on grafting 1/4 panels from a 2dr. only from the wheel wells forward. yes, forward. Remove the "C' and "D" pillars.
i want to keep the the short front doors, and extend the "cab" back. probably 1/2 way betwene the exsisting "b" pillar and the old "C" pillar. and create a new pillar location useing the back of an MJ cab. id use the small window on the rear, of the rear door. right behind the driver/pass door, as the extended cab window for the side. solid rear window with a roll up/down track.power

Probably 4.5" lift. ill leave the suspention system the way it is, aside from waggy 44s. why the 44s? chep peice of mind. plus i dont mind the 6lug, and poor mans 2low.long arms/belly pan. removed front factory bumpstops. fab'd coil over mounts IPO. Rear, id move axle slightly back(not much at all) body modd to rear inner Qutarpanels(like a drag car)or "Tub" i would run no less than a 37" tire on this build.

Powertrain. Gm 350. SM465 np205. axle ratio id have to play with to get right, that trans has a grany gear that, i miss and love. also i would not rule out a doubler.

Front clip would be upgraded to a 97+. Tail gate, roll cadge/bar. lots of lights. and a +150Db Sound system.

may be hard to follow. i suk at speelin:laugh:. from my head to your comp screens.

i may or may not get to build this one. A guy can dream right;)

Bronze.
 
I know I am going to get flamed for this. But anyway I have owned many XJ's since my first YJ. And in the years I have learned frameless XJ's are only throw away rigs used and never re-used for long term. they do have a great purpose though. Great for offroading for a limited time or unlimited budget. Great for a daily driver or soccer mom. But in all reality the last known Jeep that's not really a jeep is the YJ, with leaf springs crappy seats no electric windows or super cool coil springs. Don't get me wrong I love my XJ but it's only capable of so much. that's why I have another YJ.

Dave
 
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