Steering Issues. Need advice.

[Breezio69]

No, by c I mean the inner c on the axle, what the knuckle mounts to. The straight edge will just confirm the tubing is straight, it wont help any to see if the tubes are a little jacked where they go in the diff... that's why pulling shafts would be better, to look down the tubes.

I wouldn't rule the passenger c out either, I mean its a d30...

Also, you would replace the entire axle... it would cost you more out of pocket to retube an axle and redo the mounts than it would to buy a junk yard one.... the Dana 30 is a "throw away" item... once its done, its done... also, you could swap the front axle in 4-6 hours with basic hand tools, in your driveway, in a blizzard, and with one arm.

 

[Jhumphrey]

No, by c I mean the inner c on the axle, what the knuckle mounts to. The straight edge will just confirm the tubing is straight, it wont help any to see if the tubes are a little jacked where they go in the diff... that's why pulling shafts would be better, to look down the tubes.

I wouldn't rule the passenger c out either, I mean its a d30...

Also, you would replace the entire axle... it would cost you more out of pocket to retube an axle and redo the mounts than it would to buy a junk yard one.... the Dana 30 is a "throw away" item... once its done, its done... also, you could swap the front axle in 4-6 hours with basic hand tools, in your driveway, in a blizzard, and with one arm.

Perhaps if the weather is good this weekend, I can pull the shafts and see if anything is bent. I also agree that I would swap the entire axle assembly out long before I would do anything else. What I meant was about cost was that the tie rod vs axle swap...tie rods are cheaper than JY axle assembly's in my area.

 

[Breezio69]

I'm leaning toward a tie rod issue (at least I hope...that's an easier fix and cheaper than replacing an entire tube).

this line is what made me think you were just talking about retubing a bent side...

knowing its been in an accident now id really pick through that axle before you spend a single $... something isnt jumping out as tie rod with only one tire tweaked out, since it ties them together youd think youd have issues with both sides

 

[Jhumphrey]

No, by c I mean the inner c on the axle, what the knuckle mounts to. The straight edge will just confirm the tubing is straight, it wont help any to see if the tubes are a little jacked where they go in the diff... that's why pulling shafts would be better, to look down the tubes.

I wouldn't rule the passenger c out either, I mean its a d30...

Also, you would replace the entire axle... it would cost you more out of pocket to retube an axle and redo the mounts than it would to buy a junk yard one.... the Dana 30 is a "throw away" item... once its done, its done... also, you could swap the front axle in 4-6 hours with basic hand tools, in your driveway, in a blizzard, and with one arm.

this line is what made me think you were just talking about retubing a bent side...

knowing its been in an accident now id really pick through that axle before you spend a single $... something isnt jumping out as tie rod with only one tire tweaked out, since it ties them together youd think youd have issues with both sides

Sorry for the miscommunication. What I meant by tube was the entire axle assembly. We're on the same page, I just called it the wrong thing

I guess I need to go to the in-laws and grab a good roller jack and some stands to pull the axle. That would also give me a chance to see how it's done in case I had to swap one on the trail. I have my fingers crossed its not the axle, but I know my luck :-/

 

[Breezio69]

Yeah hopefully it is just something easy, I was just giving you a couple other things to check out. You could also have a bad unit bearing on that side? These are all things to check if you do get it up in the air.

 

[Jhumphrey]

Yeah hopefully it is just something easy, I was just giving you a couple other things to check out. You could also have a bad unit bearing on that side? These are all things to check if you do get it up in the air.

It needs a good going ove. I just didn't want to throw money at it and not solve the issue. That's to expensive and ineffective

 

[sjx40250]

I had a similair symptoms. My track bar was broken near the top of the bend for the diff relief! This is after 180,000 miles.

 

[Jhumphrey]

I had a similair symptoms. My track bar was broken near the top of the bend for the diff relief! This is after 180,000 miles.

I just replaced the track bar with an adjustable bar about two months ago (when I lifted it). I looked at the bracket and frame while I was under it and saw no cracks. I'm feeling confident that its either tie rod or axle related. As mentioned, it could be the wheel unit. I won't know until the weather clears up and I can mess with it.

 

[Breezio69]

Yeah keep us posted, even with pulling the shafts it shouldn't take longer than an hour to have everything all checked out... when I go out and do maintenece stuff I go through my tool box and get all the sizes of wrenches etc. Laid out on a towel, just everything I'm gonna need, then drag it over to the jeep and have everything right there so I'm not constantly getting up and walking to the tool box... saves a little time, at least I think so, Haha

 

[Jhumphrey]

I did manage to get a couple of photos, even with the bad weather. The first is a picture of my draglink (lined with green). Is it supposed to have that bend in it? The red outline is my tie rod (from the driver side wheel):

This picture is of my passenger side tie rod (red outline). Is it supposed to have the "tilt" to it?

I also measured the wheels (that I found on the "alignment" site http://jeep-xj.info/HowtoAlignment.htm). It is definitely toe OUT. The front measured 45 1/2" and the rear of the wheel measured 45". IIRC, spec is toe IN 1/8-1/4", correct?

 

[GordoSmasho]

Correct. So you just need to adjust toe in and the driveit and recenter the steering wheel and your good as far as a general alignment. I would deffinately check all the rod ends first though.

 

[Jhumphrey]

Correct. So you just need to adjust toe in and the driveit and recenter the steering wheel and your good as far as a general alignment. I would deffinately check all the rod ends first though.

Ill do the alignment like the site says and see if that fixes it. Its possible, I suppose, that the alignment was knocked out when we were offroading. My wife was driving through a muddy spot (had momentum) and did hit a small ditch that wasnt seen previous due to being covered by ground cover. It wasnt a super hard hit (or very fast) but did jostle us around...I didnt really think much of it until we started talking about this. Ive hit things harder in my YJ and never had this issue, surely the XJ can take a hit as well...

 

[Jhumphrey]

Ok, so with what little daylight I had left after getting off work today, I decided to adjust the toe using the instructions from the earlier referenced site. I managed to get a toe IN of about 1/8" (I used the same spots on the front and back of the wheel, to make sure I was keeping everything in check). I could visually see the difference in the tire (of course), after I set it.

I took it for a test drive and it seemed to handle better. Once I got up to around 50-55, it seemed like it wanted to pull hard to the right (a la "drift" that direction). Does this mean I need to toe OUT a little? Sorry, never done an alignment before...

 

[GordoSmasho]

I would attribute that to the tires. The aren't going to track very well and will tend to follow the road grooves a bit. But as long as your alignment is on the car should track straight on flat level ground. You should take some time to check through the front end components though.

 

[Jhumphrey]

I would attribute that to the tires. The aren't going to track very well and will tend to follow the road grooves a bit. But as long as your alignment is on the car should track straight on flat level ground. You should take some time to check through the front end components though.

I do plan to go through the components this weekend. As of right now, I believe that it is slightly out of alignment still. The drift happens whether Im on straight level pavement or not. It could also be the faulty steering box (which I plan to replace soon).

The xj isnt a DD, so I have time to work everything out. I just want to make sure that I have my toe set right. I know there is a variance of 1/16-1/8". I am currently on the larger of the two. Should I bring it in a little more to offest the pulling?

 

[gajeepguy]

Agreed with tie rod ends being a culprit.... id also go get my money back from paying for 3 alignments if that how they ended up.

Any time I've ever done an alignment they always inform me of worn out parts ( one time was passenger side wheel bearings and the 2nd of course was the drivers side).... also one shop inspected it the first time and did not do an alignment because of the passenger side. I did the repair myself instead of spending the $300 they wanted and took it back, all has been well since.

That's just my take on what a quality shop "should" do when they do an alignment and should stand behind their work....

Agreed. Took mine in and shop said needs lower ball joints before they can align it. Sure enough, they were toast.

Try rotating your tires see if it still pulls one direction.

 

[Jhumphrey]

Ok, to give an update. I was able to check the ball joints (lifted the jeep up, grabbed the wheel at 12 and 6 and rocked). No movement at all. After lowering the jeep, I did the tie rod check (grab the tire at 9 and 3 and rocked). The driver side did not budge. The passenger side had a little "rock" to it and made a small click sound when I did it (though it wasnt constant). It looked like the tire moved but the rim didn't, if that makes sense.

I had my wife grab the tire and I looked at the tie rod coming from the drag link as she moved the tire. I noticed a small (almost minute) amount of movement in the tie rod as she did this. I didnt notice any movement in the tie rod on the driver side when she did the same thing. I also noticed no movement in the tie rod that is the right inner (connects to the drag link). Does this mean I need to replace the drag link and not the tie rod itself?

I am also planning to replace the steering box either this coming weekend or next.

 

[GordoSmasho]

I personally would do it all. I use currie steering or you could just use factory and a zj v8 tierod. It's solid stock vs tubing. But the currie is pure beef.

 

[Jhumphrey]

I personally would do it all. I use currie steering or you could just use factory and a zj v8 tierod. It's solid stock vs tubing. But the currie is pure beef.

I'd like to go Currie as well, but that just isnt in the budget. Plus, Id hate to put that on and discover my axle housing is bent...that would be just my luck

Of course, even if it is bent, that would give me all new components for my "new" axle to be installed on . Looks like Ill be ordering a new drag link with my ZJ setup....

 

[Jhumphrey]

Ok, so I wanted to give an update. Parts that I replaced over the weekend (and the project didn't go as planned, at all):

ZJ tie rod w/ TREs (Moog, bought new)
Steering box from a Durango (JY find)
Draglink from another xj (JY find as well)
JCR steering box spacer ('nuff said)
Power steering pump w/reservoir (new, thanks to the plastic "barb" breaking while trying to remove the steering box hose...)

I did a "driveway" alignment and also had a heck of a time getting the air out of the PS pump. The first time I started it after bleeding, the pump dropped a little, so I added fluid. The pump "gargled" and it looked like I made a whipped frappe in the reservoir....I kept repeating the process after letting it set until it finally started working. It does, however, seem to groan loudly at full turns, so Im not sure if theres air still in there or I got a bad pump out of the box. I also discovered a "broken" tie rod on the passenger side. While undoing the drag link, I was removing the castle nut and noticed that the nut was spinning but wasn't coming off. The entire thing was spinning: nut and tie rod thread. Since I didn't need it any way, I torched it off.

Back to the alignment. After setting it to approximately 1/16" toe-in and setting my steering wheel straight via the drag link, the jeep drives....basically the same. My steering isnt tight, it still has a dead spot. If the jeep is sitting still and the wheels are straight, my steering wheel is straight - the airbag "box" is 180 degrees. But, when I start to drive it, I have to move the wheel to an acute angle, roughly 45 degrees to go straight. If I leave it 180 degrees, it starts straying to the right. At the acute angle, it goes straight down the road, even if my hands are off the wheel. There also feels like a dead spot in the steering, where if I turn left, theres understeer. Right, feels like oversteer. Should I set the toe to 1/4" in instead?

This is almost exactly how the jeep behaved when I first bought it. So right now I feel like Ive replaced a bunch of parts that I didn't have/need to. I read about how replacing the steering box and putting on the ZJ TR made the jeep feel much "tighter", but that hasn't been my experience at all.

If it isn't these parts, then what else could it be? At this point, the only things I can think of are my steering stabilizer (its the one that came on the xj, so I have no idea how old it is), ball joints (though theres no play when I do the push/pull method), hubs (no noise as Im traveling down the road/stopping/etc), steering shaft (how easy do those bend??), or bent axle housing (my wheels arent canted and they spin normally with no wobble). I didn't pull the axle shafts because of it being the holidays, the last thing I wanted to do was break a seal and have no way of getting a replacement in a decent amount of time...so Im still not certain that the axle housing is straight or not.