Steering Fab/Tech

[53guy]

Redoing the steering set up and I'm doing a ton of research on styles of steering. I have been running an inverted T setup for a while with no complaints, but it'd be nice to have the akerman back. My question is, can the inverted Y be used effectively with hydro boost, keeping the akerman, as well as upgrading to quality DOM? I'm thinking that running a high steer inverted Y made of 1.5x.25 DOM would be a great setup for a DD as well as a very capable rig. Any other opinions?

 

[Goatman]

Redoing the steering set up and I'm doing a ton of research on styles of steering. I have been running an inverted T setup for a while with no complaints, but it'd be nice to have the akerman back. My question is, can the inverted Y be used effectively with hydro boost, keeping the akerman, as well as upgrading to quality DOM? I'm thinking that running a high steer inverted Y made of 1.5x.25 DOM would be a great setup for a DD as well as a very capable rig. Any other opinions?

I ran inverted Y on my D30 setup with no issues, I think it would work fine on a high steer design. But, so does the inverted T since with high steer the drag link angle is pretty good.

I don't see the problem with Ackerman on an inverted T, it won't make a difference. The Ackerman is figured from the tie rod mounting location on the knuckle, which would be the same regardless of what design steering you use.

 

[53guy]

I ran inverted Y on my D30 setup with no issues, I think it would work fine on a high steer design. But, so does the inverted T since with high steer the drag link angle is pretty good.

I don't see the problem with Ackerman on an inverted T, it won't make a difference. The Ackerman is figured from the tie rod mounting location on the knuckle, which would be the same regardless of what design steering you use.

Ahh, ok. I get what you're saying now. Is it worth even considering running an inverted Y made out of DOM?

 

[Goatman]

Ahh, ok. I get what you're saying now. Is it worth even considering running an inverted Y made out of DOM?

Sure. What's the goal of your steering design? What do you want it to do?

The main negative of an inverted Y is that there is a toe change as the suspension cycles up and down. With high steer, and the drag link pretty flat, that toe change would be minimal. A slight tow change doesn't matter anyway.......a stock XJ has it, as does anyone running the Currie steering setup which lot's of people do.

 

[53guy]

Not much of a goal really. I was considering why the stock xj has it instead of an inverted t and I read a few articles and it corrected my knowledge about my akerman problem I was having issues with poor turning radius because of the akerman angle and I narrowed it down to my pitman arm length. I was sorta hoping that the inverted y would fix my problem but then realized my problem wasn't with the style of the steering system, but more the set up of the system.

 

[Goatman]

I assume the XJ's don't come with inverted T (like a YJ does) because there is too much angle on the drag link, so it rolls the tie rod and creates a dead spot. Really, I don't see any negatives to inverted Y accept a minimal toe change, which isn't much of an issue.

 

[TNT]

I agree with Goatman, the inverted Y setup mounted over the knuckle made out of DOM with high quality heims is the great setup. If you are lifted over 6" you might want to use a ZJ pitman arm and raise the Heims on the knuckle with spacers like Goatmans old set-up. Keep the tierod as long as possible to minimize toe change as the suspension cycles. Goatman D30 setup was sweet. Just make sure to set your trackbar angle correctly to avoid bumpsteer.

I will be building this setup soon.

Here's a pic of Goatmans old setup.

Here's a quote from one of Goatmans old posts about building his setup.

Nothing special about the steering geometry. Yeah, it's pretty simple. You have to deal with the sway bar link mounts on the axle, but that's with any OTK setup. I still use the stock TRE at the pitman arm. Most drill out the pitman arm and go to a rod end there, but I went out and bought the drill and tap for the stock TRE, 20mm 1.5. A couple of the local guys have done the same thing since they could borrow my tap. I did have some trouble wearing out the pitman arm TRE because of over extending it when the axle drooped, I checked it regularly and carried a spare. I changed it pretty often but it never broke on me. I finally fixed it by putting a very slight bend in the drag link up by the pitman arm, and it hasn't worn out since I did that. I've even broken the steering box off the frame one time and another time broke the sector shaft, all with the stock TRE.

Now, I'll tell you (admit it, actually) how I did it on my inverted Y D30 OTK.....and it worked. The 20mm 1.5 is so close to 3/4 16 that I used the stock adjustment collar (drag link). I tapped the DOM drag link for 3/4" and used a section of 3/4 16 threaded rod screwed into the drag link with a jam nut, then threaded the adjusting collar onto that. It's close enough that when you tighten the clamps on the collar it holds it without any problems. I did this because it was an inverted Y style, so the collar was needed to adjust the drag link to center the steering wheel.

 

[ChuckD]

This is from one who did the inverted Y, like what Goatman put together.

I liked the inverted Y, but at 6.5" of lift the angles were still not very good. With the inverted Y you have two angles to overcome. The Draglink and the then the draglink to the knuckle.

I switched over to the inverted T with a solid tierod from knuckle to knuckle and I would have to say this is definitely a better way to go. The steering feels a lot more responsive even with a severe draglink angle. Which can be slightly overcome by using a Tera knuckle and raising the axles end of your Trackbar.

 

[Goatman]

My D44 sterring is inverted T, but the only reason I run it is because the angle of the drag link is pertty flat. I don't like inverted T's with much angle on the drag link. If you use rod ends rather than tie rod ends, you can mount the drag link on top of the tie rod between a couple of tabs, and this will help to decrease the angle of the drag link. On mine, I don't feel a flat spot, but the tie rod will still rotate a little and can clunk sometimes, so I offset the rod ends on the knuckle to minimize this.

On an inverted Y there won't be any rotating of the tie rod, so no flat spot even if the angles are more severe. As with any inverted Y, the drag link should be bent slightly at the knuckle to help deal with the angle, unless you're running a true high steer setup.

For me, if the drag link angle can be pretty flat, I'd run a T, if the drag link angle is more, I'd run a Y.

 

[diluted1]

Off topic, but Goatman, do you have a buildthread or and specs/pics of your new xj buggy build?

 

[CanMan]

Off topic, but Goatman, do you have a buildthread or and specs/pics of your new xj buggy build?

I believe this is the thread you are looking for. http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=89644

 

[diluted1]

sweet... thanks bro!

 

[ChuckD]

This is from one who did the inverted Y, like what Goatman put together.

I liked the inverted Y, but at 6.5" of lift the angles were still not very good. With the inverted Y you have two angles to overcome. The Draglink and the then the draglink to the knuckle.

I switched over to the inverted T with a solid tierod from knuckle to knuckle and I would have to say this is definitely a better way to go. The steering feels a lot more responsive even with a severe draglink angle. Which can be slightly overcome by using a Tera knuckle and raising the axles end of your Trackbar.

I made a mistake, I did not switch over to an inverted T. I have the draglink going straight to the knuckle. Because of what Goatman mentioned, as far as the rotation of the joint creating a dead spot.