question about bump stops and there effects on flex...

[Alaskan89XJ]

Ok..,
1) I have no rear bumpstops, just mounting holes. I have seen the mod on extending OEM bumpstops.., my question remains, short or long?
2) How would I know, comprehend what length longer bumpstops I should order for the front.., talk to ARBUSA tech? I think those on this site are more knowledgable than most phone answerers, which might piss some off. (It takes around two weeks for each item I order to get to me, so I would prefer to make several orders at the same time in order for them to arrive timely).
3) I dig the idea of the rear leafs acting as the straps so mentioned, so I guess I am satisfied with that astute reply.

 

[VAhasnoWAVES]

1) bump stops do what they say... stop you from bumping. in the rear you have a lot less to work with. dont just go out and buy bump stops. measure and see what you need. when will the rear shocks bottom out? when will the shackle hit something? when will the tire hit something? when will the leaf become inverted? these guys keep talking about balance, and it takes a little work to achieve it. you want to prevent all of these things. (the tire rub is personal preference)
2) at your height i dont think you will need anything more than a puck at the bottom assuming you still have the stock bumps on the spring perch. you can get either really... longer bumps in the stock location, or pucks. but you got to find the right mix. too long and either of them may contact the coil spring or not contact each other properly.
3) the rear is typically leafs, and will not "unseat" like coils. they are always bolted in. the point if limit straps is not to use your shocks or joints to limit your flex. thats a good way to make them not last very long. i would say you really dont need them in the rear. but i havent spent good money on shocks, if i did, id probably limit it just to be safe.
4) i think the answers will spark more controversy. lol.

 

[rockclimber]

ACOS systems are not usefull as a bumpstop replacement. they are designed to adjust ride height of the suspension.

hockey pucks are cheap and effecient for ~1$ each you get 1" of bumpstop. there are also companies selling puck style pieces that have cushion in them unlike a hockey puck, those can be useful as well.

in the rear for bumpstops, I reccomend the OEM length ones, then using square tube whatever height you need to extend them, that way you can "adjust them" for different setups.

and for limit straps in the rear: they are a good idea to keep you from pulling your shocks apart. I am not currently running them because my shackles do not allow the leaf spring to droop enough for this anyways, but in the next few weeks I will have shackle relocation boxes an longer shackles so I will have to. I havent decided where to do it, but I will mount them somewhere and post the results.

 

[Alaskan89XJ]

1) Sorry VA, but I have said I am confused. Especially with verbage that has my head spinning with images, lol. Hey, bumpstops stop something from bumping.., huh? Are they not there for the purpose of having something bumping into them, i.e., to prevent overtravel, (I dig that),i.e., to prevent shocks, for example from fully extending thusly hurting the shocks, and perhaps affecting other damage?
2) Yes, I have stock bumps on the spring perch. Hell of a deal, to introduce the wrong size puck, just to find out everything has to be undone, just to replace with a different size puck. ((It amazes me how you guys do so much work to get everything just right)). Would the expensive ACOS system be an advantage to 'fine tune' that issue; (a) Coil is in box, (b) ACOS is going in, (c) Coil replaced, (d) every thing back together--rather than tossing in some pucks, and then finding them to be the wrong size?

 

[Alaskan89XJ]

RockClimber: Thanks for the ACOS defined. That reveals to me that 'they' are not dual purpose. Given the idea that I am attempting an upgrade that is heavy duty, albeit most say OME products do give a slight lift, i.e., an average of 2", I am ignorant of the travel length of their shocks, but have read some on this very post who have somewhat glorified them, blah, blah, but with that/my ignorance I feel that I should be able to glorify OEM, lol, with OME! That said, I tend to agree with VA that I probably won't need limiting straps at the rear, (especially with stock shackles), but it would appear most everybody agrees with the idea of them limiting coil separation. (Ounce of prevention). Am unclear about the time and effort of comprehending what size pucks are required for the minor lift I have raised in this example. I wonder if it would be ok to drill a couple of holes in a puck horizontally, hacksawing the puck in two, inserting them through a jacked up sprung spring, and introducing long bolts and nuts!?!

 

[Darky]

I think people are using differing verbage...You are referring to pucks in regards to coil spacers, correct? Everyone else is referring to pucks in regards to gluing or bolting them to the coil pad to extend the bump stop. As a coil spacer, the ACOS is very effective, and it adds a higher quality bump stop. You will however still likely need fine tune bump stop length.

 

[VAhasnoWAVES]

1) Sorry VA, but I have said I am confused. Especially with verbage that has my head spinning with images, lol. Hey, bumpstops stop something from bumping.., huh? Are they not there for the purpose of having something bumping into them, i.e., to prevent overtravel, (I dig that),i.e., to prevent shocks, for example from fully extending thusly hurting the shocks, and perhaps affecting other damage?
2) Yes, I have stock bumps on the spring perch. Hell of a deal, to introduce the wrong size puck, just to find out everything has to be undone, just to replace with a different size puck. ((It amazes me how you guys do so much work to get everything just right)). Would the expensive ACOS system be an advantage to 'fine tune' that issue; (a) Coil is in box, (b) ACOS is going in, (c) Coil replaced, (d) every thing back together--rather than tossing in some pucks, and then finding them to be the wrong size?

1) they prevent too much compression. im sure that was just a typo though.
2) what youll want to do is simple really... put the jeep up on jack stands right behind the control arm mounts, pull the coil springs, and cycle the suspension. itll be really easy this way to identify what needs to be addressed. you can add your bump stops without the coil being in the way... test it again. and once its good to go, reinstall your coils.

 

[rockclimber]

when I said pucks, I meant a hockey puck with a hole drilled in it, bolted to the spring perch inside the coil, thus increasing the amount of bumpstop...

I have a picture somewhere

there you can see the Rubicon express bumpstop extension (2") and 2 hockey pucks (1" each) for 4 more inches of bump... at full compression there is 1/4" left of compression in my shocks.

 

[Alaskan89XJ]

Darky: Yes, I think I think pucks and coil spacers and bumpstops as being the same thing.., hmmm.., dunno anymore. Your comment seems to differentiate that bumpstops and pucks are the same things, and coil spacers are something different. Hope that is the case, so the pictures in me brain pan can get to the correct page, lol. So, I reckon it won't hurt to have both pucks and ACOS together in an Old Man Emu coil, right? The question then is how thick the pucks must be, or how many, etc. I guess, then VA, I will have to order several sets of pucks to insure that I do not have to wait an additional couple of weeks to get whatever is needed in order to do the job at once, and not have the vehicle in the elements on jack stands, tying them up, and other tools, in the interrim time span. Would that seem to be what I need to plan for, getting different sizes? Thanks people.., 'gotta go for today, back tomorrow, (I hope, lol).

 

[rockclimber]

Darky: Yes, I think I think pucks and coil spacers and bumpstops as being the same thing.., hmmm.., dunno anymore. Your comment seems to differentiate that bumpstops and pucks are the same things, and coil spacers are something different. Hope that is the case, so the pictures in me brain pan can get to the correct page, lol. So, I reckon it won't hurt to have both pucks and ACOS together in an Old Man Emu coil, right? The question then is how thick the pucks must be, or how many, etc. I guess, then VA, I will have to order several sets of pucks to insure that I do not have to wait an additional couple of weeks to get whatever is needed in order to do the job at once, and not have the vehicle in the elements on jack stands, tying them up, and other tools, in the interrim time span. Would that seem to be what I need to plan for, getting different sizes? Thanks people.., 'gotta go for today, back tomorrow, (I hope, lol).

coil spring spacers:
http://rustysoffroad.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RC-SP175-UV&Category_Code=COILS

these add "lift" to the vehicle and are placed on top of the coil

ACOS: http://store.jksmfg.com/merchant2/m...OS&Store_Code=JKS01&Category_Code=Coil_Spring

replaces entire upper spring perch area, used as an adjustable coil spacer

hockey pucks: ~1" each, stacked on top of each other on the axle side spring perch for use as bumpstop extentsion like these but much cheaper

http://store.jksmfg.com/merchant2/m...MP&Store_Code=JKS01&Category_Code=Coil_Spring

rear bumpstop extending spring plates. pricey, but effective. I just lengthened the stock bumpstops by putting a piece of 1x4x3/16" steel above them
http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/product.aspx?id=3502

 

[Alaskan89XJ]

Thanks Rock Climber: (I need a good camera like you have[nice trackbar]). I am starting to loose it, gotta sleep! (I will look at the links you have labored to supply tomorrow). Ok, you have an additional length bumpstop extension at the top of the pic, and 2-1" pucks at the bottom, totalling 4" of additional overall bumpers, leaving you with the 1/4" remaining compression ability from your shocks, and I would suppose you have a safe value from over extending your shocks as well, right? Hmmm, just how does all of the bumpers aid or detract from your flex? I would think from the pic, that you are protecting say; one side from too much compression, and the other side a protection against coil separation via your safety strap. Right? I sure hope so, as I think I am kindof getting the concept, lol, i.e., limiting compression on one side, and limiting extension on the other side especially when you have disconnected sway bar with discos; JKS, Terra's, Rubicon? I think your photo shares just what I'm thinking what I need to do in order to gain flex and stabiltiy. However I do not want any additional lift than the H.D. OME provides over stock, as I do not want to SYE the T.Case. Rubicon seems to be reorganizing or something.., so I have to seek an alternative, to go along with OME stuff. (Can't afford those rebuildable FOX shocks and D. American leafs that approach a grand per each set-up).., Thanks again 'ya all.

 

[Darky]

Go OME coils and leafs, OME shocks, JKS control arms. Or even call Iron Man (he's a vendor here, so his page should be under the sponsorship info page) and tell him your plans and he could likely build you a control arm to the proper length since it may be diffeicult to find arms to fit a small 2" lift. You could even use some stock WJ arms I believe, at least for the lowers.

Hell, call Dirk at DPG offroad. www.dpgoffroad.com
He's very knowledgeable, sells OME, JKS, and just about any and every manufacturer you could need.

 

[FlexdXJ]

Go OME coils and leafs, OME shocks, JKS control arms. Or even call Iron Man (he's a vendor here, so his page should be under the sponsorship info page)

This!








I like OME!

 

[rockclimber]

Thanks Rock Climber: (I need a good camera like you have[nice trackbar]). I am starting to loose it, gotta sleep! (I will look at the links you have labored to supply tomorrow). Ok, you have an additional length bumpstop extension at the top of the pic, and 2-1" pucks at the bottom, totalling 4" of additional overall bumpers, leaving you with the 1/4" remaining compression ability from your shocks, and I would suppose you have a safe value from over extending your shocks as well, right? Hmmm, just how does all of the bumpers aid or detract from your flex? I would think from the pic, that you are protecting say; one side from too much compression, and the other side a protection against coil separation via your safety strap. Right? I sure hope so, as I think I am kindof getting the concept, lol, i.e., limiting compression on one side, and limiting extension on the other side especially when you have disconnected sway bar with discos; JKS, Terra's, Rubicon? I think your photo shares just what I'm thinking what I need to do in order to gain flex and stabiltiy. However I do not want any additional lift than the H.D. OME provides over stock, as I do not want to SYE the T.Case. Rubicon seems to be reorganizing or something.., so I have to seek an alternative, to go along with OME stuff. (Can't afford those rebuildable FOX shocks and D. American leafs that approach a grand per each set-up).., Thanks again 'ya all.

yes, the idea of bumpstops is to limit compression to protect things like shocks, fenders from tires, your oil pan from your upper CA's, etc.

and the straps keep things like your shocks from pulling themselves apart, your coils from falling out, your brakelines from being torn apart, etc.

I have 20" limit straps as seen in the pictures, they keep the shocks from bottoming out completely, say by about 1/2". I am also lucky enough that my straps keep my springs from unseating.

as far as shocks go, I would go with bilstein 5100's. they have a model designed for 0-3" lifts.

 

[ColoradoRaptor]

Everyone knows better than the next guy......... you are wrong and he is right! Usually I just ignore these threads........ I just loved the post saying " are these big enough" ......... it was one spot of one trail that really did not impress much! My junk flexes just right for me...... do yourself a favor " Shut up and WHEEL" :thumbup:

 

[ericfx1984]

WOW... this thread has been quite the read... thank you guys

 

[Alaskan89XJ]

Oh hell.., now I'm 'gun shy!' Seems if I do one thing, I've got to do two others..! Ok, so it seems that if I enhance the XJ's OEM dead springs and shocks with the Heavy Duty OME springs and shocks.., that's about the limit of what I can do without having to make more modifications to gain better flex and stability beyond that level. In other words, if I want to go beyond OME, to better enhance that stance with improved flex using discos, it would then be necessary to add 'puck' extension(s), limiting straps, and control arms, right? The idea of disconnecting the stock OEM sway bar, (at just above stock chassis/body height), and then having the the potential of a stock control arm wacking away at the oil pan requiring an aftermarket control arm replacement to prevent that is: is necessary from what I've read so far. LOL.., seems like a never ending project, 'eh?

To clarify: Can one go with OME leafs, coils, shocks, discos, pucks, limiting straps, without the need for aftermarket control arms, or would one damage the oil pan with stock control arms with said setup? I think you all are eluding to the fact that if I go with OME restoration, I will be limited to just that, i.e., forget about more flex, i.e., discos, etc. Right?
Thanks all.

 

[Darky]

This was with 4.5" coils up front, stock sagging leafs with a 1.5" shackle boost out back, stock control arms, and no sway bars. Discoing your sway bar won't cause you to hit your oil pan, it's jumping your XJ that could driving the axle into your oil pan.

Extending your bumpstops and adding limit straps depends on what kind of wheeling you do as well what kind of shocks you run. Bilstein recommends limit straps if you'll be airborne with the Jeep, if you'll just be crawling and might leave a tire hanging in the air, that's ok by their book to let the shock catch it. I plan on strapping because my Jeep is going to do both. I don't plan on jumping anytime soon, but I've been caught off guard by whoops and caught a little bit of air here and there. I definitely had to extend my bumps after discoing the sway bar. Instead, I chose to cut the crap out of my fenders...as shown in the above pictures.

This was the previous year and was when I discovered that I needed better bumps or more fender clearance. Stock fenders and flares, you can see the huge dents coming out above the flares.

 

[Alaskan89XJ]

Darky: You have a fantastic camera_what kind is it? Now, I'm back on track with your thinking, lol, sometimes I just lose it, lol. Ok, so now the idea that I must get different control arms seem to not be a requirement for my very modest upgrade for flex and stability, lol, the origional reason for this thread. I am impressed with your XJ there in S.Cal. We do not have much of that kind of terrain up here in Alaska. Mostly sand, mud, and lots of snow, and plenty of ditches to get stranded in. In addition we have cordoroy dirt roads, heavily rutted roads, and paved roads with lots of pot holes. SO, my intention to 'bomb-proof' my suspension as best as I can without electricity for power tools.., which really sucks! However, I will do my best after I fully digest mentally.., yours, and all of the other guys suggestions. I will consider the Currie link you provided, but seriously, I think I can fabricate something back there on the leafs. ACOS does not look to be in my near future, although I would like to have them, blah, blah, blah. Have heard great things about Biltsteins, but am reluctant to mix and match via experimentation at this point. Later all. OH YEAH.., WHAT KIND OF CAMERA.., just amazing pictures, close and far, with great detail. Please Advise, thanks.

 

[Darky]

I think that was just my old Canon point and shoot. We got a Nikon now and like it a lot better. the Canon had a funky lens cover that jammed constantly. We got the Nikon as a free replacement using the Best Buy service plan.

I use a Canon Rebel EOS xt and an xTi now.

Mixing and matching isn't that big of a worry. Go to the DPG website and call Dirk. He'll be able to match you up with what you need.