question about bump stops and there effects on flex...

[XJLI]

what??? where does the 4th wheel go?

space.

 

[rockclimber]

what??? where does the 4th wheel go?

the spring is what holds the vehicle up, not the shock or the CA's or any other thing...

once that spring is unseated that corner of the vehicle is no longer supported by that tire, the vehicle is now being supported by the other 3 tires.

this really is not that hard.

 

[srmitchell]

I've got nearly 4 extra inches of bumpstops up front. Flexes great.

And I lift tires all the time. The key is having lockers to propel you!
Bumpstops have not reduced my flex.

Nice and stable.

 

[VAhasnoWAVES]

what??? where does the 4th wheel go?

the "beyond" section of "bed, batch, and beyond".

 

[ktm racer 419]

bumpstops are not "levers" to give you more downtravel, they are to stop your axle from destroying things.

yes, thier purpose is to be the limiting factor in the suspension compression. but if you have a suspension that naturally binds it will help force the other side down. it isnt the case for most of us, but still holds true.

so your saying a suspension is limited by either shocks, brakes lines or straps? really? if your limited by shocks/lines, get longer shocks/lines

this. if you absolutely think you need more flex, like i said, bumpstops allow you to do things to achieve more travel.

 

[beakie]

the spring is what holds the vehicle up, not the shock or the CA's or any other thing...

once that spring is unseated that corner of the vehicle is no longer supported by that tire, the vehicle is now being supported by the other 3 tires.

this really is not that hard.

I would argue this point somewhat.

if a tire is drooping so much as to un-seat the coil, then it is probably not touching the ground, in which case it is not supporting the vehicle anyway.
if the coil has become unseated, but the tire is touching the ground, the weight of the tire/axle, add to that gravity, could provide it enough traction to aid in movement.

I understand your argument that an unseated coil is not the best idea (it could not re-seat properly, it could fall out if not captured at either end, it could bind upen re-seating, etc) however even if you capture the coil top and bottom, once it begins to extend it is no longer supporting the vehicle, infact it would be resisting that tires droop.

 

[rockclimber]

I would argue this point somewhat.

if a tire is drooping so much as to un-seat the coil, then it is probably not touching the ground, in which case it is not supporting the vehicle anyway.
if the coil has become unseated, but the tire is touching the ground, the weight of the tire/axle, add to that gravity, could provide it enough traction to aid in movement.

I understand your argument that an unseated coil is not the best idea (it could not re-seat properly, it could fall out if not captured at either end, it could bind upen re-seating, etc) however even if you capture the coil top and bottom, once it begins to extend it is no longer supporting the vehicle, infact it would be resisting that tires droop.

here you go, this was a perfect example, before I had my straps tuned in this would happen...

the jeep seemed stable enough until I got back in the driver seat and it leaned over until the coil in this pic was firmly seated again...

let me tell you that is a scary feeling

 

[Darky]

I would argue this point somewhat.

if a tire is drooping so much as to un-seat the coil, then it is probably not touching the ground, in which case it is not supporting the vehicle anyway.
if the coil has become unseated, but the tire is touching the ground, the weight of the tire/axle, add to that gravity, could provide it enough traction to aid in movement.

I understand your argument that an unseated coil is not the best idea (it could not re-seat properly, it could fall out if not captured at either end, it could bind upen re-seating, etc) however even if you capture the coil top and bottom, once it begins to extend it is no longer supporting the vehicle, infact it would be resisting that tires droop.

I've had my Jeep flexed out to where the coil was unseated but the tire was still firmly on the ground. All it did was spin and dig out directly below itself until it no longer made firm contact.

 

[beakie]

here you go, this was a perfect example, before I had my straps tuned in this would happen...

the jeep seemed stable enough until I got back in the driver seat and it leaned over until the coil in this pic was firmly seated again...

let me tell you that is a scary feeling

I will have to see your pic later, no view here at work... but I can guess what your are posting.

as I said I understand your point, but you have to understand that just because a coil is seated doesn't mean it is bearing a load. if the coil is just touching then it has what a few pounds of weight on it, look how easily you can move the body of a rig with one tire barely touching the ground (like on an rit ramp, sad example but easy to imagine)
from what I read into your posts, you'd have to limit your droop so that the coil is always in compression to really get any benefit.

 

[Hoooper]

love where this thread has gone weeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[1990JEEPXJ]

the original question has for the most part been answered. that doesnt mean the thread has to die necessarily. there is good in depth discussion going on with some good information and intelligent posts. who cares where it has gone at this point? its good information that it useful to people that wheel and care about how their rig performs and, more importantly, WHY it performs the way it does. if you dont like where the thread has gone, fine, dont post anything in it. as long as it is useful to us all then let it be.

rant: off

 

[Hoooper]

the original question has for the most part been answered. that doesnt mean the thread has to die necessarily. there is good in depth discussion going on with some good information and intelligent posts. who cares where it has gone at this point? its good information that it useful to people that wheel and care about how their rig performs and, more importantly, WHY it performs the way it does. if you dont like where the thread has gone, fine, dont post anything in it. as long as it is useful to us all then let it be.

rant: off

love means love, not sure why those panties are in a knot

 

[aintright]

I would argue this point somewhat.

 

[Darky]

What?

 

[outkast7222]

I was recently reading a thread, which I can not find ATM, that claimed that having proper length bump stops will actually increase flex...

they went on to explain that while the side of your axle hat is going up contacts the bump stop it will act as a pivot point and force the other side down...

I think this makes sense... anyone want to confirm this?

thank you

Ya cant find that thread cause its over on CF. And I am so glad to see my statement has started such a debate over here. Glad to see there are many here that agree with my line of thinking.

A little more insight on this: The original question over there was about a LCOG set up vs HCOG.

 

[rockclimber]

I'll Lcog your mom!

 

[techno1154]

I was recently reading a thread, which I can not find ATM, that claimed that having proper length bump stops will actually increase flex...

they went on to explain that while the side of your axle hat is going up contacts the bump stop it will act as a pivot point and force the other side down...

I think this makes sense... anyone want to confirm this?

thank you

Every time I read that statement I wonder if we are talking about an axle with bump stops at the ends of the axle or a see-saw with a pivot point in the center. :yap:

 

[Hoooper]

im wondering how much force we figure is put on the down tire as a result of the bumpstop forcing? bumpstop is what, 6-12" laterally from the tire? other tire is 4.5' from there? If you have the entire front half weight of the vehicle on that one tire (using a 4000 lb jeep and 2000 lbs for the front half) you get between 444lbs and 222 lbs (obviously quite roughly). Thats not much weight considering the axle itself is 150+.

 

[Alaskan89XJ]

Ok.., I am so dizzzy from reading these posts.., and a bit confused since I'm 64, and am a complete newbie to the subject. That said, I'd like to know from you experts just what I need to fulfill my intentions to obtain a modest lift, with sway bar disconnects in the front, and the removal of the rear sway bar. My suspension is shot, hence I desire replacements, and have considered OME all the way around, i.e; Coils--1.50", Leafs--2.75", and their shocks. I intend to replace front stock bumper with ARB Bull/Bar with Warn 8000 Winch. Lots of weight there, 'eh? The reason for the slight "California-Rake" is to maintain forward momentum to overcome snow drifts.., to avoid 'high-centering'. I often carry much weight in the rear, but not all of the time. Often, I am with the only vehicle on the road for hours, usually in the dark, without seeing anyone else to help me out of a muddy, or snow filled ditch, etc., and too, I would like to be able to cross over small streams with 1 to 2 foot embankments.., and in the event of a major earthquake, I'd like to be able to transverse broken pavements. That said:
1) I have no bumpstops in the rear areas. Should I get standard, or longer length replacements?
2) Do I need a 'puck', or ACOS system,(extra 1.5"lift potential), and/or extended bumpstops for the front coils? ACOS appears to be a pita for me laying around on my back with no power. (right?).
3) I have seen 'limiting straps' in various photos of the front end, but have never seen them installed on the rear. Is that something I should do in order to ensure proper function in such a modest lift so as to not damage the slight up-graded suspension's fullest articulation flex/stability capabilties?
4) Should I have this post moved, or can it be used here as an example to clarify and explore the concept of the minimum/maximum attributes of flex and stability, whether and/or, or versus, etc.
Thanks

 

[z06elmo]

1) I have no bumpstops in the rear areas. Should I get standard, or longer length replacements?
2) Do I need a 'puck', or ACOS system,(extra 1.5"lift potential), and/or extended bumpstops for the front coils? ACOS appears to be a pita for me laying around on my back with no power. (right?).
3) I have seen 'limiting straps' in various photos of the front end, but have never seen them installed on the rear. Is that something I should do in order to ensure proper function in such a modest lift so as to not damage the slight up-graded suspension's fullest articulation flex/stability capabilties?
4) Should I have this post moved, or can it be used here as an example to clarify and explore the concept of the minimum/maximum attributes of flex and stability, whether and/or, or versus, etc.
Thanks

1. I'm kind of in the same boat as you. I need longer bumpstops in the rear, much longer. I'm going to get some square pipe and reuse the stock unit.
2. Yes you'll want longer bumpstops in the front. hockey pucks work, but be careful that they don't miss during full articulation. Mine currently don't hit the center, but are in contact enough.
3. Not sure about other rigs, but on some you'll see that the leaf springs become the limit straps when they fully extend. On the front end the coil can unseat, however that doesn't occur with the rear leaf springs. In the case of my jeep that's not true as my shocks are currently too short to allow my leaf springs to fully droop.