Need advice on moving front axle forward

[Hellboy006]

No, i meant Currie's HD steering system. I think it's called the Correctlync or something. It's the same as stock but way beefier and with angled tie rods for less joint binding.

I don't think the shocks will have enough droop to allow the control arms to hit the shock mount on straight arms. Even if it did slightly then you can just trim that piece off. It's a pretty common trim spot for short-armers.

To tell ya the thruth, I loved my DB's with arms that had rubber bushings at one end. It rode better than my current long arm kit. My arms were straight like stock and that allowed the suspension to absorb the bumps properly. My gf said the jeep never rode like that since LOL and she misses it. I now have RC's long arm kit with Currie's joints and front rubber bushings. It's "ok", not WOW like most people make out long arms to be. I do got some Bilstein 5100 hanging on there so we'll see how it rides after I get em on. I broke the axle stud out back and a couple front lower bolts...doh!

That Correctlync setup sounds pretty cool, but I think if I was gonna shell out the dough for new steering I'd go ahead & upgrade to OTK.

So your DBs definitely rode better than your LAs huh? At what height? Looking at the picture, your LCAs are pretty damn level, it would be hard to get any better angle than that. I think 4-5 inches of lift is probably ideal for DBs as they lower the LCA mount by 4 inches or so (not sure how many inches the UCA mounts are lowered). At my height I don't expect either option to give me a stock-like ride, but I still can't decide for sure which would be better.. Probably LAs if you can afford it.

I wouldn't say that the claytons/rustys style crossmembers are a bad design.. I would just say that no other LA crossmember I've seen looks as good all around as the TNT unit. As far as strength, clearance, joint/mount protection & also t-case protection are concerned.. TNT is supreme.

 

[muddeprived]

That Correctlync setup sounds pretty cool, but I think if I was gonna shell out the dough for new steering I'd go ahead & upgrade to OTK.

So your DBs definitely rode better than your LAs huh? At what height? Looking at the picture, your LCAs are pretty damn level, it would be hard to get any better angle than that. I think 4-5 inches of lift is probably ideal for DBs as they lower the LCA mount by 4 inches or so (not sure how many inches the UCA mounts are lowered). At my height I don't expect either option to give me a stock-like ride, but I still can't decide for sure which would be better.. Probably LAs if you can afford it.

I wouldn't say that the claytons/rustys style crossmembers are a bad design.. I would just say that no other LA crossmember I've seen looks as good all around as the TNT unit. As far as strength, clearance, joint/mount protection & also t-case protection are concerned.. TNT is supreme.

Actually I think DB's are better for 5" or higher cuz any lower and they get in the way of things. I was dragging mine alot but then I was running 31" tires. They were just too low. Your rig will gain control arm angles of a 3"-ish lift, which will still ride amazingly better than a 7" short arm lift. A 3" lift doesn't have steep control arm angles.

FYI, the uppers lower the same amount as the lower arms.

I had DB's at 4" and now long arms at 4.5". So I got similar lift heights to compare the two. I did have stiffer Rusty's coils with the DB's though but it still rode better than this current kit.

Either one you choose will benefit you so it's not a difficult decision. It mostly comes down to what you can afford.

Here's RC's long arm bracket and where the arms mount if anyone cares lol:

 

[Phil]

So based on that picture, the Rough Country longarm brackets and drop brackets hang down similar amounts, but drop brackets would be about a foot farther forward on the frame?

 

[muddeprived]

So based on that picture, the Rough Country longarm brackets and drop brackets hang down similar amounts, but drop brackets would be about a foot farther forward on the frame?

Yup, about the same. The lower the mount is, the better the angles are and the better it will ride but you sacrifice ground clearance. If I drew a line from bolt to bolt on my long arm kit, it will show a very low angle, about where a 2" lift would put you on short arms. I do wish the arms were a little longer though. Most kits are hovering around 35" or longer. These ones are at 29".

 

[Hellboy006]

So based on that picture, the Rough Country longarm brackets and drop brackets hang down similar amounts, but drop brackets would be about a foot farther forward on the frame?

That's the problem I see with LA kits that use that style of crossmember, you lose about the same amount of clearance as the drop brackets but much further back, & IMO it's going to cause a lot more problems 2 feet behind the front tires than it would when it's only about 5 inches behind the tires, as is the case with DBs.

This brings me back to the T&T kit, their design puts the LA mounts up inside the crossmember so they are higher than most & much more protected.. The only downside to this that I can see would be that higher mounting points = more angle on your arms. This kit might not be the best for on-road comfort but I think it's definitely the best option for off-roading where ground clearance can be an issue.

Actually I think DB's are better for 5" or higher cuz any lower and they get in the way of things. I was dragging mine alot but then I was running 31" tires. They were just too low. Your rig will gain control arm angles of a 3"-ish lift, which will still ride amazingly better than a 7" short arm lift. A 3" lift doesn't have steep control arm angles.

FYI, the uppers lower the same amount as the lower arms.

I was thinking more of on-road ride quality than off-road capability when I said that 4-5" of lift would be ideal for DBs, I should have been more clear about that. I agree that DBs are not a good choice for serious or even moderate off-roading at that height & tire size, & your right about the DBs giving you the same angle on a 7" lift as you would have with stock short arms/mounts & a 3" lift.. & that's got to be a pretty dang good ride!
Oh & thanks for clearing up how much drop the DBs give the UCAs, I figured it would be the same as the LCAs but didn't know for sure.
Have you gotten hung up on those LA mounts yet?

Here is a picture of the T&T kit for everyone to compare to the picture Muddeprived posted of his RC kit.

Here's a basic sketch I made of the different cross-member designs based on research & install photos Ive seen.

I couldn't find any good pictures of the RE crossmember but it might actually be similar to the T&T version.

 

[Phil]

Weren't the TNT belly pans having problems with bending under hard use too? If I recall, the pan is a sheet of like 3/16" plate with a stiffener at the front and rear. Not much section to it.

 

[muddeprived]

That's the problem I see with LA kits that use that style of crossmember, you lose about the same amount of clearance as the drop brackets but much further back, & IMO it's going to cause a lot more problems 2 feet behind the front tires than it would when it's only about 5 inches behind the tires, as is the case with DBs.

This brings me back to the T&T kit, their design puts the LA mounts up inside the crossmember so they are higher than most & much more protected.. The only downside to this that I can see would be that higher mounting points = more angle on your arms. This kit might not be the best for on-road comfort but I think it's definitely the best option for off-roading where ground clearance can be an issue.



I was thinking more of on-road ride quality than off-road capability when I said that 4-5" of lift would be ideal for DBs, I should have been more clear about that. I agree that DBs are not a good choice for serious or even moderate off-roading at that height & tire size, & your right about the DBs giving you the same angle on a 7" lift as you would have with stock short arms/mounts & a 3" lift.. & that's got to be a pretty dang good ride!
Oh & thanks for clearing up how much drop the DBs give the UCAs, I figured it would be the same as the LCAs but didn't know for sure.
Have you gotten hung up on those LA mounts yet?

Here is a picture of the T&T kit for everyone to compare to the picture Muddeprived posted of his RC kit.

Here's a basic sketch I made of the different cross-member designs based on research & install photos Ive seen.

I couldn't find any good pictures of the RE crossmember but it might actually be similar to the T&T version.

I wheeled it twice at the BDS Outback Adventure and didn't have any issues. I don't do any rock crawling but there are rocks there. The kit did what it needed to do but the damn 2.2's were way too short for any decent downtravel. I fixed that by swapping in longer 5100's. I'm not really concerned about getting hung up on em cuz I'll just pull cable if it happens. I'd like to use the winch someday :laugh2:.

 

[Hellboy006]

Weren't the TNT belly pans having problems with bending under hard use too? If I recall, the pan is a sheet of like 3/16" plate with a stiffener at the front and rear. Not much section to it.

Hmmm.. That may be one drawback to having the mounts set more towards the center of the crossmember & not over the frame rails.. The good thing about having the mounts pretty much bolted right to the frame is that it makes them a lot less likely to flex/twist/bend the crossmember.. Maybe they need to use thicker plate or just add some more bracing.. I'm no fabricator but I bet I could work out something to make it a little stiffer.

 

[rocknxj]

I just cut a pie shaped notch in the swaybar bracket and bent it to the rear an rewelded it.

I like the way that sounds (can't see the pic) and wish I had thought of that. Instead, I cut off my stock sway bar brackets and welded on a taller set from Poly Performance to eliminate the drag link contact point.

Drop brackets will give you a better ride by leveling your LCAs. My RE drop brackets were completely bolt on so no welding was required. They will come off easily if I ever go with a LA upgrade.

Even on a 5.5" SA lift with drop brackets, I have similar spring issues that you have. I pulled my UCAs 1/4" closer this weekend and there was some improvement, but I'm at the limit of my adjustable upper controls arms. Next I plan to remove the spacers from above the coil springs to see if that does anything.

 

[Hellboy006]

I like the way that sounds (can't see the pic) and wish I had thought of that. Instead, I cut off my stock sway bar brackets and welded on a taller set from Poly Performance to eliminate the drag link contact point.

Drop brackets will give you a better ride by leveling your LCAs. My RE drop brackets were completely bolt on so no welding was required. They will come off easily if I ever go with a LA upgrade.

Even on a 5.5" SA lift with drop brackets, I have similar spring issues that you have. I pulled my UCAs 1/4" closer this weekend and there was some improvement, but I'm at the limit of my adjustable upper controls arms. Next I plan to remove the spacers from above the coil springs to see if that does anything.

Do you have adjustable LCAs yet? That should fix you right up I would think.

We still haven't decided what route were gonna take, I'm still convinced that T&T is the king of Y-link radius arm style kits, but I've decided to throw the BDS 4-link long arm upgrade in the mix too. Good information on this kit is kinda hard to find, the only person I know of thats running it for sure is Squirrel80 in this thread.
I like the fact that its a true 4-link, long arm setup, in fact its the only one I know of, but if someone knows of any other LA/4-link kits please let me know.

Retaining the 4-link functionality seems like it would be a better way of doing things as far as suspension travel is concerned, & would eliminate the binding, axle mount strain & bushing killing associated with Y-link arms. Is there any down side to these kits? I think I read somewhere that bump-steer would be worse with a LA/4-link than a LA/Y-link setup. Does anyone have any facts about this? Any other pros or cons with going this route?

Theres still that lazy part of me that just wants to get some adjustable LCAs & RC DBs & be done with it.

 

[Hellboy006]

Just in case anyone is wondering what ever happened with this old Jeep, here's and update....

We decided to do the lift right & bought Rubicon Express 5.5" coils for the front and matching leafs for the rear, Bilstein 5100s all around, and a BDS 4-Link long arm upgrade.

After getting the process started & then letting it sit for a few years, I finally came to the conclusion that I was never going to get the project finished on my own... So I drug it up to San Angelo TX to see Matt & Mark at West Texas 4-Wheel & Offroad and turned the project over to them.

Since it was going to the shop anyway we decided to have a few other upgrades done... Artec Truss & C-Gussets for the D30, Spartan lockers front & rear, & Chromoly shafts for the Chrysler 8.25 out back.
On the steering side we brought them an ORO U-Turn kit and a IRO adjustable Track Bar.

The guys turning the wrenches over there did a great job as you might expect, even did some not-so-fun things for me like fixing the AC and replacing the dead fuel pump.


The Jeep rides like a dream off road now, night and day difference!
The on-road characteristics on the other hand still leave a bit to be desired... The vehicle wants to wander left or right on the highway and the tires tend to follow cracks in the road, there is no wobble at all but the bump steer is still present... The wandering from left to right & back again is most noticeable when driving in a straight line so taking a road trip in this thing would be exhausting.

Next on the list:

1. Full alignment, new steering stabilizer, shorter sway bar end links...
(Hopefully that will help the steering situation, if not we will ditch the U-Turn kit for something else since few people seem to praise this steering kit & most agree its a PITA to get dialed in right.)

2. 35s baby! (Largest tire I would run on a D30)

3. Skid plates for oil pan and gas tank

4. Winch bumper for front and tire carrier bumper for rear.

5. Steering box brace!


I think that's pretty much it! Advice is always welcome as always.

Thanks for looking :dunce:

 

[rockclimber]

ditch that U-turn garbage and go currie or WJ.

 

[iluv83vettes]

What coil buckets are on there?

 

[DeftwillP]

What's your caster dialed in at?

 

[Boostwerks.com]

FWIW, your SB drop brackets are installed backwards.

The links are definitely to long like you had mentioned already.

 

[Hellboy006]

What coil buckets are on there?

Not sure on that one Bud.

What's your caster dialed in at?

I don't know what the caster is set at exactly, the axle is rotated forward some, the pinion is pointed up slightly toward the transfer case.

FWIW, your SB drop brackets are installed backwards.

The links are definitely to long like you had mentioned already.

I would like to ditch the drop brackets all together, but Idk if the sway bar would clear the drop pitman arm without them... Some shorter links are definitely in order, I'll play with the drop brackets when I replace the links.