Need advice on moving front axle forward

[rocklandxjer]

Just an FYI, if you lower the lift a little you should see an axle that sits a bit more forward. It's constrained by the CA's. Drop the lift and you rotate the arms up a bit. Rotate the arms, you move the axle forward a bit. 7" is a bit high for 33"s

I'm with the others though. DB's should fix you up. Also, get some measurements and make sure your UCA's are the right length as well.

 

[DeftwillP]

Just for clarification: drop brackets and long arms aren't required, but they help tremendously. People were lifting these rigs before drop brackets existed. That being said: yes, I have drop brackets and would definitely recommend them.

 

[RCP Phx]

Thanks for the input, I was thinking we were probably getting close to the price range of some of the lower end long arm kits.. Here's the thing though, I'm a little worried about the reduced ground clearance you get with drop brackets anyway, but from what I've read the problem is even worse with long arm kits, & instead of hanging up on the drop brackets you hang up on the arms themselves which lifts your tire up & can bend your arm if you drop down on it hard enough..

Some LA kits hang down a bit,but not near as bad as with drop brackets.Mine is even higher up than most.

 

[Hellboy006]

Just an FYI, if you lower the lift a little you should see an axle that sits a bit more forward. It's constrained by the CA's. Drop the lift and you rotate the arms up a bit. Rotate the arms, you move the axle forward a bit. 7" is a bit high for 33"s

I understand what your saying, as the axle moves away from the frame it swings backwards on the control arms.. & vice versa. So yes lowering my lift would swing the front axle not only up but also forward. The only problem I see with that is this: Its a little hard to explain but I'll try.. The part of the tire that rubs the rear/bottom corner of the fender flare isn't the farthest-back most part of the tire, it's above it. If the drivers side tire were a dial face clock it would be rubbing at about 2 o'clock, so even if the tire moved forward one inch & up two inches it would still probably be rubbing a little closer to 3 o'clock.

 

[Hellboy006]

My choices have basically come down to this..
1. Rough country long arm kit (about $700, Y-style arms, comes with a T-case skid plate, apparently works for up to 8.5 inch lifts)

2. Rough Country Drop brackets (about $205) with IronMan lower adjustable control arms with johnny joints ($300). Throw in a T-case skid plate to even things up a bit ($150) & were within $50 of the long arm kit.

There are several "Drop brackets vs. Long arms" threads here on :: but input from people who have actually used both is scarce.. It sounds like neither of them really do anything better than the other, except that the drop brackets might ride a little smoother & the long arms might flex a little better.

One of the things that make me feel a little hesitant about going LA is that you have to cut off the stock LCA mounts, so there is no going back.
Another thing I wonder is if its really a good idea for all the forces encountered by the front axle to be funneled down to just two joints that are only connected to a cross-member thats just bolted to uni-body frame rails.. What if the bolts in those two joints broke or if the cross-member itself came loose?

How do you like that 4-link/long arm set up RCP Phx? The clearance does look good, can you use it without cutting off the stock LCA mounts or was this picture just taken before you removed them..?

Also, does anyone know if the RC Y-arms are basically the same as the TnT arms? They look about the same, apparently the TnT kit has really good ground clearance.

 

[dart70LA]

2. Rough Country Drop brackets (about $205) with IronMan lower adjustable control arms with johnny joints ($300). Throw in a T-case skid plate to even things up a bit ($150) & were within $50 of the long arm kit.
QUOTE]

You don't need the adjustable lower control arms if the current ones are in good shape. Get the drop brackets and adjust the upper arms so that pinion angle and caster are within acceptible range. Now it is $350 more to get the cheapest long arms which are Y-links and are not ideal because of the forces they can impart on the axle control arm brackets. And you can take your time and shop around for a used skid and pick it up for even less $ for more savings.

then you can lower the vehicle to 4-5 inches of lift for a safer and smooter ride with plenty of ground clearance and room for 33" tires if trimmed a little.

 

[RCP Phx]

There are several "Drop brackets vs. Long arms" threads here on :: but input from people who have actually used both is scarce.. It sounds like neither of them really do anything better than the other, except that the drop brackets might ride a little smoother & the long arms might flex a little better.

I would definately debate this!

One of the things that make me feel a little hesitant about going LA is that you have to cut off the stock LCA mounts, so there is no going back.
Another thing I wonder is if its really a good idea for all the forces encountered by the front axle to be funneled down to just two joints that are only connected to a cross-member thats just bolted to uni-body frame rails.. What if the bolts in those two joints broke or if the cross-member itself came loose?

Do a search,its been debated for over the 10yrs Ive been running mine!

How do you like that 4-link/long arm set up RCP Phx? The clearance does look good, can you use it without cutting off the stock LCA mounts or was this picture just taken before you removed them..?

Both of my sets are homebuilt radius arms,the pic was taken during the build before the mounts were removed.Heres a couple links to my build pics!
https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=d978c996b9f94140&page=play&resid=D978C996B9F94140!223
https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=d978c996b9f94140&page=play&resid=D978C996B9F94140!236

Also, does anyone know if the RC Y-arms are basically the same as the TnT arms? They look about the same, apparently the TnT kit has really good ground clearance.

Again do a search,lots of debate! But the TNT is a great kit!

 

[rocklandxjer]

Trim her up and your rubbing problems go away. There are several threads that allow you to keep your flares, too, if that is what you want. If you haven't already, I'd say it's something you should do anyway.

I guess my question is this: What do you want as the end result?

Do you simply want to stop the drag link from rubbing? Dropping the insulator only might do that for you. Trim her up, just cause, and you'll be good to go.

If you actually want some down travel, then do whatever you want as far as LA's or DB's. IMHO, If you are willing to spend the money, do it right and get LA's. If you are worried about the cross member shearing or dropping, I can't imagine how you would justify DB's...There's even less holding them in. (Not that they are flimsy, just in relative terms).

 

[Dirt22]

This is a good thread, Thanks to the participants.

 

[Hellboy006]

If you are worried about the cross member shearing or dropping, I can't imagine how you would justify DB's...There's even less holding them in. (Not that they are flimsy, just in relative terms).

You've got a point there, I was forgetting how DBs take the upper & lower arm & connect them both to a bracket thats just attached to the stock LCA mount (not including the braces).. But I've never heard of either actually coming off.. It was just a thought I had when looking at how the LA kits work.

Another thing I'm wondering about is limit straps, are they really necessary? You would think the LA kits would come with them if they were.. I haven't seen anywhere on the RC sight that says they recommend using them with their kit.. That would be another 50$ or so you'd have to add to the total cost of the LA kit. Time for some more research!

 

[krawler09]

Yes keep us informed I have the exact same problem with a 4.5" Rusty's kit with added 2" spacers and shackles but my uppers are fixed and the lowers are adjustable. My 33's are rubbing the same way. Thought about getting adj. uppers also to fix this.

 

[muddeprived]

It's a simple fix:

Get the cheap DB's. Install em, attempt to set wheelbase and caster with current arms. If success, go wheel it. If you can't hit good specs with those arms, get some from Andy. He will make em any length you need and up to 4" of adjustability. I don't think you will need the bent arms with drop brackets. You will be approx at a 3" lift height with your control arm angles after the DB's and angled arms will likely hang down even more than straight arms at that angle. So I would get straight adjustable lowers.

Is that stock steering I see? You should not be using stock steering parts at 7" and when wheeling 33's. It will work but will be stressed a pretty darn bit. Upgrade that steering and with the axle in the right spot you will fix the tie rod issue. Mine hit the sway bar link bracket too until I adjusted the caster to within specs and then got Currie's steering, which has a deeper bend for this very issue.

This is my old 4" lift with DB's and straight arms. Notice how they are parallel with the ground. It's most likely you will not need bent arms if you run db's (but if your current arms work, then keep em).

 

[Phil]

Do whatever you want. You are going to anyway.

If you go to longarms, don't make the brackets hang down as far as Clayton's or RCP PHX's.

I would just go drop brackets if my rig wasn't a pile and I couldn't fabricate.

 

[Hellboy006]

Is that stock steering I see? You should not be using stock steering parts at 7" and when wheeling 33's.

Yes from what I can see the steering is all stock. :bawl:
That is something I plan to research & address when I get other things out of the way.

I did some googling & found some pretty awesome pictures of rigs using drop brackets, those things definitely allow some damn good flex!

Most poople say that LAs are better that BDs, & I agree that if the LA kit is within $150 or so of what you'd have to spend to get a good short arm/DB set up, then you might as well go ahead & go LA.. The only thing is that if we DO go LA, I want the TNT kit
Lol, I just love how the ends are tucked way up inside the crossmember, thats the thing that sets it apart from the RC kit in my mind. I just dont know if that makes it worth the $400 price increase over the RC kit, or the $600 increase over the DB setup for that matter.. :wierd:

 

[Hellboy006]

Yes keep us informed I have the exact same problem with a 4.5" Rusty's kit with added 2" spacers and shackles but my uppers are fixed and the lowers are adjustable. My 33's are rubbing the same way. Thought about getting adj. uppers also to fix this.

I think that's basically what my kit is, a 4.5" lift with 2.5" spacers.

It's most likely you will not need bent arms if you run db's

That's probably true, I just don't want my LCA hitting the shock mount to be my flex limiting factor.. But the bends hanging down would suck too.

Mine hit the sway bar link bracket too until I adjusted the caster to within specs and then got Currie's steering, which has a deeper bend for this very issue.

It would be awesome if a little castor adjustment would fix my problem too, are you talking about an OTK steering kit?

 

[muddeprived]

I think that's basically what my kit is, a 4.5" lift with 2.5" spacers.

That's probably true, I just don't want my LCA hitting the shock mount to be my flex limiting factor.. But the bends hanging down would suck too.

It would be awesome if a little castor adjustment would fix my problem too, are you talking about an OTK steering kit?

No, i meant Currie's HD steering system. I think it's called the Correctlync or something. It's the same as stock but way beefier and with angled tie rods for less joint binding.

I don't think the shocks will have enough droop to allow the control arms to hit the shock mount on straight arms. Even if it did slightly then you can just trim that piece off. It's a pretty common trim spot for short-armers.

To tell ya the thruth, I loved my DB's with arms that had rubber bushings at one end. It rode better than my current long arm kit. My arms were straight like stock and that allowed the suspension to absorb the bumps properly. My gf said the jeep never rode like that since LOL and she misses it. I now have RC's long arm kit with Currie's joints and front rubber bushings. It's "ok", not WOW like most people make out long arms to be. I do got some Bilstein 5100 hanging on there so we'll see how it rides after I get em on. I broke the axle stud out back and a couple front lower bolts...doh!

 

[RCP Phx]

If you go to longarms, don't make the brackets hang down as far as Clayton's or RCP PHX's.

What are you talking about? My arms mount above the crossmember?

 

[ericfx1984]

@ RCP Phx... that cross member looks great!

 

[Phil]

What are you talking about? My arms mount above the crossmember?

But your crossmember mounts below the frame rail.

 

[RCP Phx]

But your crossmember mounts below the frame rail.

That is true,but my crossmember is 1/4" higher than a factory crossmember! I built these 10yrs ago from another build link I found,there wasn't much out there back then. Since then,not to many manufacturers have built higher mounting pionts than the "old hang below the frame rails" designs! Thats also the same level where the t-case skid needs to be at.