98XJLongBuild
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- San Jose, CA.
Also if since youve got a sye kit check and make Sure your rear yoke is torqued down propely. This could cause vibs as Well.
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LOUD Rear Vibration or Hum disappears with rear Drive shaft removed
- Thread starter Dustys
- Start date
old_man
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Loveland, Colorado
I just scanned the posts, but what you describe really sounds like a driveshaft out of balance.
Flyfisher
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Billings, Montana
I'm not an experienced R&P guy, but isn't the scoring cause for concern? And, isn't the scoring on the coast side of the gear, not the drive side?
Update: Most people I talk to say that it shouldn't be the ring and pinion... Driving back on the highway from the Frostbite 4x4 event at Kansas Rocks Park this past weekend I experimented with the vibration.
1. It can be felt in the seat back floor pans, everywhere. Seems mostly concentrated in the drivetrain tunnel down the center of the jeep.
2. When approaching 75mph (indicated speedometer, GPS says 63) the vibration reaches a loud harmonic resonance that comes and goes once every second. This is stupid but if you sound it out it goes WhaaaaaaoWWWW mmmm WhaaaaaOWWW, and the returns to a loud humm vibration from 75 through 85 where it starts the resonance again but with a vengences that feels like the damn things going to fall apart.
3. So I tried to break it pushing it to 90 (78 gps) then past 100(84 gps). At those speeds it was less intense vibration, but a steady hum. Let off the gas and the vibration slows and at 75 disappears. Put on the gas anytime after 50 and it immediately shows again.
4. Here's a curve ball; put it in 4wd at about 55 and vibes disappear even when driving up to 75 (I know, I know not recommended. It was a brief test at that speed in 4wd).
5.Today pulled the front shaft and as expected vibes still there, if you were reading the thread earlier I removed the rear shaft and vibes went away. Was just confirming that with the front shaft removal.
So I'm left still thinking its a shaft/transfer case/sye problem
Pictures earlier in the thread show my SYE. I did not install it, it was done by the previous owner and it looks like a Rubicon Express hack and tap type.
I called Tom Woods to get their advice. Gave them my angles and they said it was 2* too high. Earlier in this thread I installed the 4* shims with no change, so removing them will put me back perfect where it was to start with, and I had vibes there too. So pinion angles ruled out.
Tom Woods guy also suggested that maybe the SYE was cut crooked and and the flange was rotating off balance.
So maybe a new advanced adapters kit?......................
For the earlier questions: I will check the Sye Flange nut again, I'm pretty sure I tried that last time the driveshaft was off.
No I don't have a D35. Here's my setup
01' XJ
NP231J 4.1* output shaft angle with RE? Sye hack and tap
Dana 44 rear w/ 4.88 35" Goodyear MTR Kevlars
2.5" Driveshaft double cardan
1. It can be felt in the seat back floor pans, everywhere. Seems mostly concentrated in the drivetrain tunnel down the center of the jeep.
2. When approaching 75mph (indicated speedometer, GPS says 63) the vibration reaches a loud harmonic resonance that comes and goes once every second. This is stupid but if you sound it out it goes WhaaaaaaoWWWW mmmm WhaaaaaOWWW, and the returns to a loud humm vibration from 75 through 85 where it starts the resonance again but with a vengences that feels like the damn things going to fall apart.
3. So I tried to break it pushing it to 90 (78 gps) then past 100(84 gps). At those speeds it was less intense vibration, but a steady hum. Let off the gas and the vibration slows and at 75 disappears. Put on the gas anytime after 50 and it immediately shows again.
4. Here's a curve ball; put it in 4wd at about 55 and vibes disappear even when driving up to 75 (I know, I know not recommended. It was a brief test at that speed in 4wd).
5.Today pulled the front shaft and as expected vibes still there, if you were reading the thread earlier I removed the rear shaft and vibes went away. Was just confirming that with the front shaft removal.
So I'm left still thinking its a shaft/transfer case/sye problem
Pictures earlier in the thread show my SYE. I did not install it, it was done by the previous owner and it looks like a Rubicon Express hack and tap type.
I called Tom Woods to get their advice. Gave them my angles and they said it was 2* too high. Earlier in this thread I installed the 4* shims with no change, so removing them will put me back perfect where it was to start with, and I had vibes there too. So pinion angles ruled out.
Tom Woods guy also suggested that maybe the SYE was cut crooked and and the flange was rotating off balance.
So maybe a new advanced adapters kit?......................
For the earlier questions: I will check the Sye Flange nut again, I'm pretty sure I tried that last time the driveshaft was off.
No I don't have a D35. Here's my setup
01' XJ
NP231J 4.1* output shaft angle with RE? Sye hack and tap
Dana 44 rear w/ 4.88 35" Goodyear MTR Kevlars
2.5" Driveshaft double cardan
98XJLongBuild
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- San Jose, CA.
Well you did say tuat you ran the transfercase with a low level of fluid. I am going off of my memory.
So that would led me to it being the transfer espically after all the other items youve cked. Im at the same point with mine know as Well. I have a continous ticking that moves with the RPMs.
So that would led me to it being the transfer espically after all the other items youve cked. Im at the same point with mine know as Well. I have a continous ticking that moves with the RPMs.
98XJLongBuild
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- San Jose, CA.
Well you did say tuat you ran the transfercase with a low level of fluid. I am going off of my memory.
So that would led me to it being the transfer espically after all the other items youve cked. Im at the same point with mine know as Well. I have a continous ticking that moves with the RPMs.
So that would led me to it being the transfer espically after all the other items youve cked. Im at the same point with mine know as Well. I have a continous ticking that moves with the RPMs.
KingIce
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Munich, Germany
I STILL BET ON THAT WORN OUT YOKE FROM THE HACK AND TAP KIT!
Told you before, that i've been through the exactly same procedure! Had the driveshafts checked, had the angles checked, had the rear axle checked....everything was fine and just a huge waste of money and time...get yourself a real SYE and you'll be fine!
Told you before, that i've been through the exactly same procedure! Had the driveshafts checked, had the angles checked, had the rear axle checked....everything was fine and just a huge waste of money and time...get yourself a real SYE and you'll be fine!
I won't argue with you Kingice. I'm just don't like thowing money at problems that don't have obvious solutions. You mentioned when you loosened the nut the yoke had slop. Mine doesn't its nice and tight.
Did you install the Advanced adapters kit with the T-case still in the vehicle?
Also Tom Woods sells the Adapter and driveshaft as a kit for around $550.
I would need the new driveshaft with that setup so I'm looking at a healthy chunk of change seeing as how already spent the money on the shaft I have.
Did you install the Advanced adapters kit with the T-case still in the vehicle?
Also Tom Woods sells the Adapter and driveshaft as a kit for around $550.
I would need the new driveshaft with that setup so I'm looking at a healthy chunk of change seeing as how already spent the money on the shaft I have.
I'm getting fed up with this and it's a rock crawler right? Not a highway machine. It does the first very well. Fortunately this is not my DD. I have finally compiled all the parts for my WJ Knuckle/ brake swap and 1-ton steering. So I'm leaving this alone for a few weeks so I can work on something fun.
But pleaseeeee feel free to leave suggestions for the vib issue. I'll be diving back into that in the next few weeks, probably starting next with the transfer case and an advanced adapters SYE and Tom Woods shaft. Anybody need a recently overhauled and balanced Tom woods driveshaft for the Rubicon Express Hack n' tap?
But pleaseeeee feel free to leave suggestions for the vib issue. I'll be diving back into that in the next few weeks, probably starting next with the transfer case and an advanced adapters SYE and Tom Woods shaft. Anybody need a recently overhauled and balanced Tom woods driveshaft for the Rubicon Express Hack n' tap?
KingIce
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Munich, Germany
.
Oh sorry, i somehow overread, that you already checked that yoke-nut thing! Totally understand your point about the money!
If the vibes disappeared with the driveshaft removed, the problem definitely must be before the ds, after the ds or the ds itself. But if you already checked everything it's getting difficult! I guess you're right with leaving it alone for a while and do some other stuff. That often brings ideas to your mind, you were to "blind" to see before.
As for the SYE install: I removed the t-case for the installation. Should be possible to install it with not removing the t-case, but i wouldn't recommend it. As removing the t-case only takes like half an hour, it's worth it! You can work on the t-case more easy with enough space and everything.
TheNerd
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- San Diego, CA
There is no problem installing an SYE replacement shaft with the x-fer case still in the jeep. Plenty of room, especially since you are sitting on 35's. I've done one in the Jeep, and one on the bench. The additional effort required to fully remove the x-fer case was not really offset by any "easier" time in working from the bench. If I do another, it'll be with the x-fer case still installed.
Thanks Kingice and The nerd, I appreciate everyone's input. I've taken a break from the vibe issue for a while. I've busy with my daily driver truck and the girlfriends cars. Why she insists on having a summer and winter car that both require regular maintenance instead of one good car I'll never know......Oh yea that's right b/c she has a sucker to keep both of them running.:wave1:
Back to the vibe issue. I've been avoiding the big money items wasting time and money on smaller things hoping it will fix my problem.
Since last update I've replaced the rear wheel bearings, one tire had a tiny bit of shake to it. I did this upon the advice of someone who had replaced his T-case, rear gears and everything in between, only to find out it was a rear wheel bearing that was quite as a mouse when not on the accelerator but caused all my same symptoms when accelerating.
Well anyway it didn't change anything for me.
I found a used T-case though with a non hack n tap SYE already installed for the price of a new SYE kit. So if I can get a hold of it, I'll install that T-case and eliminate two things off my list.
IF THAT doesn't fix it, then its something in my differential.
Process of elimination always seems to end on the very last option.
I've suspected my rear differential this whole time, and y'all just wait that's what it'll be.
Ill keep this thread going no matter what happens with the vibe issue. Ive learned so much from others who have done the same, and also been extremely frustrated when I read a thread that just dies with no solution or updates.
Back to the vibe issue. I've been avoiding the big money items wasting time and money on smaller things hoping it will fix my problem.
Since last update I've replaced the rear wheel bearings, one tire had a tiny bit of shake to it. I did this upon the advice of someone who had replaced his T-case, rear gears and everything in between, only to find out it was a rear wheel bearing that was quite as a mouse when not on the accelerator but caused all my same symptoms when accelerating.
Well anyway it didn't change anything for me.
I found a used T-case though with a non hack n tap SYE already installed for the price of a new SYE kit. So if I can get a hold of it, I'll install that T-case and eliminate two things off my list.
IF THAT doesn't fix it, then its something in my differential.
Process of elimination always seems to end on the very last option.
I've suspected my rear differential this whole time, and y'all just wait that's what it'll be.
Ill keep this thread going no matter what happens with the vibe issue. Ive learned so much from others who have done the same, and also been extremely frustrated when I read a thread that just dies with no solution or updates.
- Location
- on the beach in Ocean View, VA
everything you've experienced and everything you've done has pointed to the pinion bearings or pinion depth-- I'm betting on a pattern check showing the problem.
Why do you say these things? Please enlighten me? Have you or somebody you know experienced those things causing the vibration?
Have you seen my earlier post with ring gear?
Ill tear Into that differential tomorrow if you think it'll fix it, I just need a place to start.
jeeperjohn
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Temecula, CA
The only way the pinion is gonna cause vibrations is if it is loose or bent. If the yoke is bent it could also cause it. It is most unlikely for vibrations (especially high frequency vibes like what was described) to be originating in the carrier. If the pinion bearings have any play at all then it could be the issue.
marc davis
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Portland Oregon
Ok, I know this is a long shot but it free and easy to test. What about some kind of weird tire separation problem. Try swapping the front and rear tires.
Marc
Marc
Update: Recently swapped the transfer case with another one (with more miles than mine 112k, silly) and installed a full SYE advanced adapters kit in place of that cheap RE Hack n tap. Also rebuilt the cv on my drive shaft, since it had only had the slip replaced and balanced.
Zero improvement, same symptoms
There is literally almost nothing left to "replace"
Right now it has no rear driveshaft and the vibrations are gone. Oddly enough when both shafts are in and you are on the highway and engage 4hi the vibration stops.
Which goes along with other tests. So unloading the rear of torque either by letting off the throttle, removing the rear shaft or driving in 4 hi eliminates the prob.
Many say it cant be the gear setup and it certainly feels like a driveline issue when your in the jeep, being that its so loud and so harmonic.
Even tho I've replace nearly everything on the driveshaft and had it balanced. I suppose I'll just order another one from Tom Woods......I dunno
Zero improvement, same symptoms
There is literally almost nothing left to "replace"
Right now it has no rear driveshaft and the vibrations are gone. Oddly enough when both shafts are in and you are on the highway and engage 4hi the vibration stops.
Which goes along with other tests. So unloading the rear of torque either by letting off the throttle, removing the rear shaft or driving in 4 hi eliminates the prob.
Many say it cant be the gear setup and it certainly feels like a driveline issue when your in the jeep, being that its so loud and so harmonic.
Even tho I've replace nearly everything on the driveshaft and had it balanced. I suppose I'll just order another one from Tom Woods......I dunno
VAhasnoWAVES
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Lake City, Mi
people replace U joints and say the shaft is fine and all, all the time. but really, you want it balanced after you replace all the joints. from the factory... auto makers will find the heavy spot on the pinion and the heavy spot on the shaft (since nothing is ever truely round or balanced. but we are talking C-hairs here) and place them opposite for the smoothest driveline possible. a good practice is to mark your shaft with a paint pen so that it goes on the same exact way.
with that said, not balancing the shaft after a couple U joints shouldnt be enough to cause the issues you seem to be having.
replace the rear axle with a buddies just for LoLz?
with that said, not balancing the shaft after a couple U joints shouldnt be enough to cause the issues you seem to be having.
replace the rear axle with a buddies just for LoLz?
Thanks Waves. I initially had it balanced after a bunch of play was found in the slip. A new slip was installed and rear yoke so it would match the 1330 on the D44. I had an oddsize 1310/1330 u-joint back there before. They never touched the double cardan. I had to replace the ball side of the double cardan to it to match up to the output yoke on the new SYE. My Hack n tap from rubicon had one of those bolted plated instead.
True it hasn't been balance since messin with the double cardan but the vibration is identical.
And for those who have never taking a double cardan apart, mine has a sealed ball side (that was replaced) that slips over a stud in a socket on the other side of the double cardan.
And fwiw i usually paint pen my driveline components. And as you said Waves, in all my other vehicles nothing this severe has resulted from a misaligned paint mark.
Im definitely considering an axle swap just to see, problem is all of my jeepin buddies live about 4 hours away..
True it hasn't been balance since messin with the double cardan but the vibration is identical.
And for those who have never taking a double cardan apart, mine has a sealed ball side (that was replaced) that slips over a stud in a socket on the other side of the double cardan.
And fwiw i usually paint pen my driveline components. And as you said Waves, in all my other vehicles nothing this severe has resulted from a misaligned paint mark.
Im definitely considering an axle swap just to see, problem is all of my jeepin buddies live about 4 hours away..
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