- Location
- Indiana-Missouri
aaron, try running 37's with 5.38 gears on a dana turdie.
a dana 60 up front would be excellent!
a dana 60 up front would be excellent!
-
Welcome to the new NAXJA Forum! If your password does not work, please use "Forgot your password?" link on the log-in page. Please feel free to reach out to [email protected] if we can provide any assistance.
dana 30 upgrades
- Thread starter moneypitxj
- Start date
- Location
- Bakersfield, CA
Sort of back to the original question. A D30 can be upgraded to pretty damn strong in every area other than the housing and ring and pinion. The first upgrade to a D30 is to get 760x u-joints and snap ring them. This will work very well if you don't run real hard stuff with 33" or even 35" tires if you have a very light foot and easy driving style. The next upgrade is to go with alloy shafts (stock size...1.16" diameter 27 spline), which hold up pretty well with snap ringed 760's up to 35" tires. Warn makes chromo inner shafts, and Superior makes both inner and outer chromo shafts. Going to CTM's with alloy shafts is a damn strong axle combination, and a 30 spline kit (1.31" diameter, same as a D44) for the inners is even stronger.
A weak point on the D30 is the stock stub shafts (27 spline 1.16" dia), so going alloy and going bigger is a good thing. Superior makes a chromo stub shaft, and Warn makes a chromo stub shaft that comes with their 5 on 4.5" hub kit. The strongest setup is a Warn 5 on 5.5" hub kit that comes with a chromo 30 spline stub shaft. This chromo 1.31" diameter 30 spline stub is the same size, but stronger material, than a stock D60 stub shaft (1.31" dia 30 spline). So, the strongest D30 would be the Superior 30 spline inners with 30 spline Warn 5 on 5.5" kit stubs. This would be a stronger axle combination than a D44.
Since the axles breaking is the number one weak point, the D30 can be built very strong in this area. D44 inner shafts are 1.31" dia 30 spline, and stub shafts are 19 spline and 1.24" dia (correct me if I slightly missed the stub shaft dia). So, even with Warn chromo shafts for the D44, the 30 spline (1.31" dia) Warn D30 hub kit shafts are stronger than the 19 spline D44 stub shafts. Additionally, the HPD30 ring and pinion have proven to be pretty strong, although they can be broken. With as much abuse as many D30's are given, with strong axle combinations, a surprisingly small number of ring and pinions have been broken.
The problem with building a real strong D30 is the cost, which is about the same (or more) as building a strong D44. A 30/30 kit and Warn 5 on 5.5" hub kit are $2000, plus the cost of a ring and pinion and gear setup which is $300-500, plus the CTM's which are $350, plus a good steering setup, plus a WJ knuckle conversion if you want to have bigger brakes and hy-steer like you would get on a D44. If you did all that, you'd have an axle that compares vary favorably with a D44 (if you trussed/sleeved the D30), with stronger stub shafts but a weaker ring and pinion, and more ground clearance. The cost would be roughly $3200+-.
A similar D44, with Warn chromo axles, CTM's, hy-steer, and Warn premium hubs, would be around $2700+- including the housing, if you built the mounts and narrowed it yourself. Buying one set up this way from an axle builder would be much more. You can get the 30 spline chromo Warn stubs to work on the D44 if you use D30 knuckles, either CJ, TJ or WJ. You'd loose the bigger brakes with TJ knuckles, and you'd loose hy-steer with either TJ or CJ knuckles, but the WJ knuckles would give you both hy-steer and bigger brakes......but of course the price goes up with the cost of the Warn 5 on 5.5" hub kit, although you'd deduct the $320 cost for the Warn stubs and premium hubs.
A D60 is really only an option if you're going to very large tires. It is very heavy and has lousy ground clearance unless the bottom is shaved. The passenger side pumpkin GM/Dodge D60's can be upgraded to 35 spline (1.5" dia) stubs using D70 parts, but the 35 spline parts won't work on a Ford drivers side pumpkin HPD60, so you're stuck with 30 spline outers. Of course, you can get 35 spline outers if you have a HPD60 custom built, but then you're talking about some serious cash. So, without the huge cost of a custom built D60, you are either talking about a pass side, low pinion D60 with 35 spline stubs or a drivers side HPD60 with 30 spline stubs. With the new alloy axles that are offered for D60's, it may be possible to upgrade the Ford stubs to 35 spline, but I haven't researched that.
As usual, which is best comes down to the preferences of the builder. What type of wheeling, driving style, and size of tires, plus the degree of importance of ground clearance and light weight.
A weak point on the D30 is the stock stub shafts (27 spline 1.16" dia), so going alloy and going bigger is a good thing. Superior makes a chromo stub shaft, and Warn makes a chromo stub shaft that comes with their 5 on 4.5" hub kit. The strongest setup is a Warn 5 on 5.5" hub kit that comes with a chromo 30 spline stub shaft. This chromo 1.31" diameter 30 spline stub is the same size, but stronger material, than a stock D60 stub shaft (1.31" dia 30 spline). So, the strongest D30 would be the Superior 30 spline inners with 30 spline Warn 5 on 5.5" kit stubs. This would be a stronger axle combination than a D44.
Since the axles breaking is the number one weak point, the D30 can be built very strong in this area. D44 inner shafts are 1.31" dia 30 spline, and stub shafts are 19 spline and 1.24" dia (correct me if I slightly missed the stub shaft dia). So, even with Warn chromo shafts for the D44, the 30 spline (1.31" dia) Warn D30 hub kit shafts are stronger than the 19 spline D44 stub shafts. Additionally, the HPD30 ring and pinion have proven to be pretty strong, although they can be broken. With as much abuse as many D30's are given, with strong axle combinations, a surprisingly small number of ring and pinions have been broken.
The problem with building a real strong D30 is the cost, which is about the same (or more) as building a strong D44. A 30/30 kit and Warn 5 on 5.5" hub kit are $2000, plus the cost of a ring and pinion and gear setup which is $300-500, plus the CTM's which are $350, plus a good steering setup, plus a WJ knuckle conversion if you want to have bigger brakes and hy-steer like you would get on a D44. If you did all that, you'd have an axle that compares vary favorably with a D44 (if you trussed/sleeved the D30), with stronger stub shafts but a weaker ring and pinion, and more ground clearance. The cost would be roughly $3200+-.
A similar D44, with Warn chromo axles, CTM's, hy-steer, and Warn premium hubs, would be around $2700+- including the housing, if you built the mounts and narrowed it yourself. Buying one set up this way from an axle builder would be much more. You can get the 30 spline chromo Warn stubs to work on the D44 if you use D30 knuckles, either CJ, TJ or WJ. You'd loose the bigger brakes with TJ knuckles, and you'd loose hy-steer with either TJ or CJ knuckles, but the WJ knuckles would give you both hy-steer and bigger brakes......but of course the price goes up with the cost of the Warn 5 on 5.5" hub kit, although you'd deduct the $320 cost for the Warn stubs and premium hubs.
A D60 is really only an option if you're going to very large tires. It is very heavy and has lousy ground clearance unless the bottom is shaved. The passenger side pumpkin GM/Dodge D60's can be upgraded to 35 spline (1.5" dia) stubs using D70 parts, but the 35 spline parts won't work on a Ford drivers side pumpkin HPD60, so you're stuck with 30 spline outers. Of course, you can get 35 spline outers if you have a HPD60 custom built, but then you're talking about some serious cash. So, without the huge cost of a custom built D60, you are either talking about a pass side, low pinion D60 with 35 spline stubs or a drivers side HPD60 with 30 spline stubs. With the new alloy axles that are offered for D60's, it may be possible to upgrade the Ford stubs to 35 spline, but I haven't researched that.
As usual, which is best comes down to the preferences of the builder. What type of wheeling, driving style, and size of tires, plus the degree of importance of ground clearance and light weight.
chassellbandit
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- michigan
holy friggin hannah richard. i've been following this post wisth some interest, as i'm contemplating going to 35's in the near future. but in all of the mags, news forums, lists i ahve been on, this is the single most comprehensive post i have ever read. i thank you for posting it and taking the time to write it, i just learned a hell of alot.
Good point on the axles, but you forgot one thing, the passenger side GM D60 can be switched to the drivers side and the only downside now is a minor ground clearance until you shave it but you get a lot of goodies like king pin knuckles, strong housing and gears, no ball joints, hi-steer, 35 spline outers (possible), servicable hubs and real strong brakes.
The only downside then is that you have to grind your calipers to run 15" rims and you get a different bolt pattern too but that's the same if you build a D30 or a 44 you will have to get new rims anyway. :wave1:
The only downside then is that you have to grind your calipers to run 15" rims and you get a different bolt pattern too but that's the same if you build a D30 or a 44 you will have to get new rims anyway. :wave1:
moneypitxj
NAXJA Member #565
- Location
- york, pa
thanx goatman that was the answer i was lookin for out of this 4 page thread very discriptive. you should go work for JP magazine they could use someone like you over there. thanx againXJWheelie
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Murfreesboro, TN
I'm still kinda new to 4 wheeling and I'm not trying to change the topic, but when someone breaks an axle how do you get them out of the woods? For that matter how do you get them and their Jeep home?
Robert
Robert
JnJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- San Antonio TX
If ya got spares, you tear it down and replace it. If not, it depends on the type of axle your talking about. With a front D30, I pulled the inner shaft, left the stub shaft in the hub assembly (you don't want to remove the stub shaft) and drove home.XJWheelie said:
MrShoeBoy
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Cincinnati, OH
JnJ said:
Why cant you remove the stub shaft? The axle shaft carries no weight and does not hold anything together. Other than a really large and really tight nut holding the stub shaft, why cant you?
AARON
- Location
- Indiana-Missouri
on a dana 30, you MUST keep the outer stub shaft in place as it holds the hub bearing assy togther.
the hub-bearing, CANNOT withstand a side load, and it will seperate.
the hub-bearing, CANNOT withstand a side load, and it will seperate.
MrShoeBoy
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Cincinnati, OH
I had thought that the sealed bearing unit hub was self contained but apparently not. Thanks for the info.
AARON
AARON
JnJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- San Antonio TX
The only thing holding the unibearing together is the stub shaft. If you run without the stub shaft, your wheel and tire will fall off.MrShoeBoy said:
JnJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- San Antonio TX
wow, lots of quick replies to that one.
- Location
- Indiana-Missouri
it is self contained, and unserviceable......
but it still needs the outter shaft bolted to it to keep it from seperating.
- Location
- Bakersfield, CA
Yeah, it's a pressed together fit, and will hold for awhile, but without the stub shaft bolted through the hub it will eventually come apart and the wheel will fall off. Some around this board have found this out the hard way.
XJWheelie
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Murfreesboro, TN
I've looked through both my Haynes and my Chiltons shop manuals and I can't find a good exploded view of the front differential. Does anyone know where I can get one? I'm trying to follow this thread, but I'm not quite sure what is meant by the "outer shaft", "inner shaft", and "stub shaft." Could someone please explain this to me!
Thanks,
Robert
Thanks,
Robert
BillR
Toy Jeep driver!
- Location
- Flagstaff, AZ
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt... :scared: :tears:Goatman said:
mbryson
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Woods Cross, UT
XJWheelie said:
The 'outer' and 'stub' are the same thing.....
What Rd
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Athens, IL
XJWheelie said:
Hey Robert -
Try the 4WD Hardware catalogs. They have exploded view diagrams in them that can help in visualizing something. I don't recall having seen those diagrams on their website, though, only in their catalogs. http://www.4wd.com/
Anyway, to try to help out here . . .
The front axle shafts are two pieces - held together by the u-joint. The U-joint is the cross-shaped joint that permits the driven axle to turn a steered wheel. The inner axle shafts run from the differential out to the U-joint. The outer (or stub) shafts run from the U-joint out through the unitbearing hub. Our XJs have the pumpkin on the driver's side. So the inner axle shaft on the driver's side is significantly shorter than the inner shaft on the passenger side. These are sometimes referred to as long and short side inners.
Does that help?
