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Chasing death wobble/steering problems

THE STABILIZER DOES NOT FIX DEATH WOBBLE.

I drove with no stabilizer and no swaybar on a 3500 mile road trip in January/February and never got death wobble. I was doing 75 nearly the whole time.

I typed up a long and detailed reply but you won't listen so I deleted it.


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THE STABILIZER DOES NOT FIX DEATH WOBBLE.

I drove with no stabilizer and no swaybar on a 3500 mile road trip in January/February and never got death wobble. I was doing 75 nearly the whole time.

I typed up a long and detailed reply but you won't listen so I deleted it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I won't listen?

You know absolutely nothing about my Jeep. I've put every single one of its 153,000 miles on it, yet even after I take the time to write a detailed report of my experiences with death wobble, and what corrected it, you ignore everything I've written and insist "THE STABILIZER DOES NOT FIX DEATH WOBBLE".

WEll, in my case, that's just not correct. Scroll up and see.

What's next, are you going to insist your CFI throttle bodies flow 750 CFM?
 
OK, OK ... I was just kiddin'

OP, I've had my XJ for 19 1/2 years. I've put over 150,000 miles on it, and have had three experiences with death wobble.

First, how are your tires? All 3 time's I've experienced death wobble, my tires were at the end of their life.

Second, how do you maintain your tires and alignment? At 5,000 miles, I went to my local Firestone store and put lifetime alignment on my Jeep, and lifetime rotation and balance on the tires. I've done that with every set of tires since.

I had my first date with DW right at 40,000 miles. I'd never heard of it before, and it scared the crap out of me. The tires were shot, so I put a set of 255/70 15 Bridgestone Dueller AT Revos on it, and a factory replacement steering stabilizer.

I didn't see even a hint of death wobble again for 55,000 miles.

Right at 95,000 miles, I started to feel just a bit of pre-DW when I'd hit certain bumps on the highway during my daily commute. Always the same bumps. The tires were 50,000 mile warrantied, and had 55,000 miles on them, but instead of replacing them, I had them balanced and rotated again, and the DW went away.

3,000 miles later, I started seeing pre-DW again, but a balance and rotation resolved it again.

3,000 miles later, same story.

By that time, I'd done a ton of research on DW, and knew a heavy duty steering stabilizer was the answer ...

I ended up buying a Death Wobble Kit from Kevin's Offroad. It consisted of an upgraded adjustable trackbar with Rockwell 75d durometer bushings and a super-HD steering damper. I installed it, and mounted 245/70 16 Duellers on the Rubicon Moab wheels and had 40,000 miles completely free of DW.

Right before I was due for my 140,000 mile balance, rotation, and alignment, I began to feel a little pre-DW. Just like with the last set of tires, the rotation, balance and alignment resolved most of the DW.

Looking under the Jeep, we checked the steering stabilizer and found it was worn out. I got the idea of finding the heaviest-duty, most badass stock-replacement steering stabilizer known to man, and posted a thread on here asking which one that might be.

"STEERING DAMPERS DO NOT FIX DEATH WOBBLE!!!"

at 151,000 miles, the steering suddenly became very loose. We found out the steering box was bad, so we replaced it. While we were turning the wheel and watching the box work, we noticed the KOR Death Wobble Kit track bar was flexing all over the place. We pulled it off and found the bushings had failed so badly we couldn't get them, or the bolt out.

We switched it out for a Rugged Ridge track bar.

Unbalanced tires and/or alignment out of whack affect DW.

It may not resolve the root cause of it, but in my mind, if I can put a 70.00 steering stabilizer with a lifetime warranty on my Jeep and get 10-15,000 DW-free miles ... that's a win./QUOTE]


You mention three things on this post that could cause death wobble: bad/ unevenly worn/unbalanced tires, alignment, and the track bar bushing.

You also say that the stabilizer is not the root cause of it, which is correct; and if your other thread hadn't been deleted I could show you where i said to just get the cheapest one from the parts house at the beginning of the thread, but you didn't want to listen then.

I do want to know how you were able to determine that the stabilizer was bad by looking under the jeep and checking.
 
You mention three things on this post that could cause death wobble: bad/ unevenly worn/unbalanced tires, alignment, and the track bar bushing.

You also say that the stabilizer is not the root cause of it, which is correct; and if your other thread hadn't been deleted I could show you where i said to just get the cheapest one from the parts house at the beginning of the thread, but you didn't want to listen then.

I do want to know how you were able to determine that the stabilizer was bad by looking under the jeep and checking.

Really? You don't know how to check one?

First clue was the fluid leaking and the cracked bushing.

So we pulled one end of it off, and extended and compressed it a few times. There was very little resistance.

Shock absorbers 101.

Furthermore, you didn't read the thread, or at least, you didn't retain what you read.

Twice, replacing the steering damper was part of a multi-pronged solution that resolved my death wobble.

The first time, it was new tires, an alignment, and a steering damper.

The second time, it was new wheels and tires, an alignment, and a new tubular trackbar with Rockwell 75d bushings, and a heavy duty steering damper.

This time, however, the tires have not yet been replaced, and a balance, rotation and alignment did not resolve the DW. Replacing the steering damper did. Yes, the trackbar and steering box were also replaced, but that was more than 1,000 miles after the steering damper was replaced. There was no deathwobble at the time the steering box was replaced, and we found out the trackbar was bad.

It's very clear. The third time, replacing the steering damper (and only the steering damper) resolved the DW.

By the way, the other two times I replaced the steering damper, they both failed the extension/compression test.

So, did replacing the steering damper FIX the death wobble? Probably not. Did it RESOLVE the death wobble; did it AMELIORATE the death wobble; did it STOP the death wobble? Absolutely.

The way I see it, as long as I can ride down the highway, hit a bump, and not have my fillings shaken out, I don't have a death wobble problem (at the moment).

If I was writing a sticky for how to resolve death wobble (why aren't there any stickies on that, by the way?), it would go something like this:

1) Check the condition of the tires
2) Check the air pressure in the tires
3) Check the balance on the tires
4) Check the alignment
5) Check everything in the front end carefully
6) Replace the steering damper with on that has a lifetime warranty

The bottom line is, the damper can be had for 30 bucks, and you'll never have to buy another one. According to Monroe, the factory ones should last around 50,000 miles; theirs are good for more.

Here's my question for you. Let's say someone has DW. They go through steps 1-5 above, but can't find anything wrong, so the replace the steering damper with a lifetime one. The DW is gone.

20,000 miles later, the DW starts to come back. They pull the steering damper off, go get a free replacement, put it on, and the DW is gone.

Every 20,000 miles, this repeats.

The new steering dampers cost them nothing. They replace them themselves in their driveway, so that costs them nothing.

How is that a bad thing?
 
A steering dampener is not a shock absorber, so "Shock absorbers 101" is totally irrelavant. Dampeners offer equal resistance in both directions, shock absorbers do not.

As has been stated coutles times on the WWW...
Steering Dampeners neither cause nor cure Deathwobble, they simply mask another problem. Hence the description "Band-Aid".

If the problem disappears after replacing a dampener, then the root cause still exists.
No if's and's, or buts.

A properly aligned rig without a steering dampener and without any worn/damaged parts will not get death wobble PERIOD.

Find the root cause and fix it.
 
Sorry Frank but clearly you didn't read or can't comprehend that a stabilizer does fix DW.


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A steering dampener is not a shock absorber, so "Shock absorbers 101" is totally irrelavant. Dampeners offer equal resistance in both directions, shock absorbers do not.

You test a steering damper the same way you check a shock absorber. Regardless of whether a damper offers resistance in two directions, and a shock absorber offers resistance in only one, a test revealing a lack of resistance indicates failure in both.

How could you not know that?

As has been stated coutles times on the WWW...
Steering Dampeners neither cause nor cure Deathwobble, they simply mask another problem. Hence the description "Band-Aid".

If the problem disappears after replacing a dampener, then the root cause still exists.
No if's and's, or buts.

A properly aligned rig without a steering dampener and without any worn/damaged parts will not get death wobble PERIOD.

Find the root cause and fix it.

You act as though the steering damper is something people buy off of a late-night infomercial.

The engineers who designed these Jeeps designed them with steering dampers. They are there for a reason.

OP has death wobble.

OP wants the death wobble to stop.

You're saying if he replaces the steering damper, and the death wobble stops, that's not good enough, because the steering damper is a "band aid" that only masks the root cause.

So, in my case, even though my death wobble is gone, and replacing the steering damper is what caused it to stop, that's not good enough. If I don't begin randomly replacing front end components until I can ride down the road with my steering damper disconnected and not experience death wobble, I'm a troll who just likes to start trouble on the internets.

Utterly absurd.

And so, for the zillionth time, some poor guy comes on here to find information on how to fix his death wobble, and the Soft 8 Nazis hijack his thread and turn it into another battle over steering dampers.

I'm beginning to understand why no one's done a sticky on DW. The mods would have to delete every one.
 
And you seem unable to accept the experience of wiser folks that have been down this road many times.

Steering dampeners are band-aides originally installed to satisfy soccer-moms and urban mall crawlers.

But hey, don't let the masses that know better sway your opinion.

Done here.

Right ..... I mean, what kind of an idiot would I have to be to think just because the death wobble stopped after I put the steering damper on it that not having death wobble was a good thing?
 
No one said eliminating death wobble was a bad thing.

Go back and read what I wrote. Try to comprehend the basic concept that is steering dampener is not needed on any rig.

I'm a little curious.

You say a steering damper is not needed on any rig.

You say any rig that is properly aligned and has no worn out parts does not need a steering damper.

You say steering dampers are "band aid" put on by bad engineers.

So, you're essentially saying steering dampers are snake oil.

Here's what confuses me.

Searching "steering stabilizer" on your websites yields 24 steering stabilizers, or steering stabilizer-related parts.

I've looked at several, and nowhere in the descriptions can I find where you say steering stabilizers are not needed, that any properly-aligned rig with no bad parts doesn't need one, they're band aids for bad engineering, etc.

Oddly, though, on the description for this one, you say:

http://www.seriousoffroadproducts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2356&products_id=97599

"Installing a Zone Offroad steering stabilizer system will enhance vehicle control by reducing steering shimmy and bumpsteer. These quailty systems are specificlly designed to improve tire wear and front-end component life as well as lessen side to side motion caused by wide tires and unpredicable road conditions."

That sure doesn't look like you're saying steering stabilizers are superfluous. Heck, I read that and think if I put that steering stabilizer on, my rig will drive like a Cadillac!

How about this one:

http://www.seriousoffroadproducts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2371&products_id=97610

"Installing a Zone Offroad steering stabilizer system will enhance vehicle control by reducing steering shimmy and bumpsteer. These quailty systems are specificlly designed to improve tire wear and front-end component life as well as lessen side to side motion caused by wide tires and unpredicable road conditions."

hmmmmm

Wait, there's more!

"Great conversation starter. 4x4 babes will think you are smart, good looking, and built to ride hard."

Wasn't it you who was making derogatory remarks about "soccer moms and urban mall crawlers?

"Built to ride hard"

wow

Uh oh ... stop the presses!:

http://www.seriousoffroadproducts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2337&products_id=97596

"This steering stabilizer will improve handling by reducing steering wheel shimmy"

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but when Chrysler finally released that service bulletin acknowledging death wobble, didn't they refer to it as "steering wheel shimmy"?

It sure looks to me like you're insisting steering dampers do not fix death wobble, but you're selling steering dampers claiming they fix death wobble on your website.
 
I'm a little curious.

You say a steering damper is not needed on any rig.

You say any rig that is properly aligned and has no worn out parts does not need a steering damper.

You say steering dampers are "band aid" put on by bad engineers.
Bad engineers? Please quote where I said anything about bad engineers?
So, you're essentially saying steering dampers are snake oil.
And here's where you look silly(er). Go back and read what I wrote and what others have been saying as well. No one said Sake Oil except YOU.

Here's what confuses me.

Searching "steering stabilizer" on your websites yields 24 steering stabilizers, or steering stabilizer-related parts.

I've looked at several, and nowhere in the descriptions can I find where you say steering stabilizers are not needed, that any properly-aligned rig with no bad parts doesn't need one, they're band aids for bad engineering, etc.

Oddly, though, on the description for this one, you say:

http://www.seriousoffroadproducts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2356&products_id=97599

"Installing a Zone Offroad steering stabilizer system will enhance vehicle control by reducing steering shimmy and bumpsteer. These quailty systems are specificlly designed to improve tire wear and front-end component life as well as lessen side to side motion caused by wide tires and unpredicable road conditions."

That sure doesn't look like you're saying steering stabilizers are superfluous. Heck, I read that and think if I put that steering stabilizer on, my rig will drive like a Cadillac!

How about this one:

http://www.seriousoffroadproducts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2371&products_id=97610

"Installing a Zone Offroad steering stabilizer system will enhance vehicle control by reducing steering shimmy and bumpsteer. These quailty systems are specificlly designed to improve tire wear and front-end component life as well as lessen side to side motion caused by wide tires and unpredicable road conditions."

hmmmmm

Wait, there's more!

"Great conversation starter. 4x4 babes will think you are smart, good looking, and built to ride hard."

Wasn't it you who was making derogatory remarks about "soccer moms and urban mall crawlers?

"Built to ride hard"

wow

Uh oh ... stop the presses!:

http://www.seriousoffroadproducts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2337&products_id=97596

"This steering stabilizer will improve handling by reducing steering wheel shimmy"

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but when Chrysler finally released that service bulletin acknowledging death wobble, didn't they refer to it as "steering wheel shimmy"?

I have literally thousands of products on my site. I use the same product descriptions provided by the manufacturer's/suppliers.

It sure looks to me like you're insisting steering dampers do not fix death wobble, but you're selling steering dampers claiming they fix death wobble on your website. Really? That's you're argument? So a Catholic 7-11 manager shouldn't sell condoms in his store?

Just because I KNOW that a dampener does not cure death wobble means that I shouldn't be selling them to people that like having them on their vehicle?


So looks to me that you want to attack me personally to try to bolster your argument.

Bottom line still is that steering dampeners do not cause or cure death wobble.
 
You can't argue with this guy.... he's had the same jeep for 19 1/2 years and driven it over 150k.

So his advice is to take it to a second rate chain shop and throw steering stabilizers at the problem.


Or you could listen to everyone else on the thread who seem to work on their own rig or probably have had multiple jeeps or even own shops
 
Steering wheel shimmy is not the same as death wobble.

Steering wheel shimmy that starts when you a hit a bump and doesn't end until you slow down isn't exactly death wobble either.

I have never read of steering stabilizers fixing death wobble.

My 01 XJ which I've had for over 300,000 miles has only given me vibration and shimmy problems three times that I can remember:

1. Tires out of balance around '07-08.

2. Brake rotors somehow defective around '11. Problem was only noticed downhill at speeds over 40.

3. Tires out of balance or damaged, worn steering tie rod end around in '15. Hit a bump and the steering wheel starts shaking until you slow to 40 MPH. Found defective TRE at steering box/drag link. Shaking was reduced but still present. Then I put my old tires back on and the problem went away. Two of the "new" tires I took off would not stand up straight on their own.

While I was in there for #3, I found the steering stabilizer was worn. I replaced it only to solve problems with the steering wheel shaking back and forth a few times on damaged road surfaces that had been going on for a few years.
 
Bottom line still is that steering dampeners do not cause or cure death wobble.

How have I attacked you personally? I clicked on the link to your website that you provide in every post you make and read the descriptions you provide on the products you sell.

And you can insist that steering dampers do not fix death wobble, but the simple facts remain:

1) I had death wobble.

2) I replaced the steering damper

3) The death wobble is gone.

How come y'all never address that?
 
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