Buggy building on a budget

[Matt S.]

Also when setting up your gears run them a bit deeper so when you are out desert running the flex in the ring gear won't run it out to the outer edge and should reduce teeth chipping or breaking.

This could be done, but whichever way you set up gears (properly) they are going to break if you have to much tire. I don't care who says otherwise. You should never ever set gears out of specs, you are putting to much at risk when you are wheeling. Shafts are easy to change compared to setting new gears up on the trail.

 

[Goatman]

Learn to search then Weasel. Its on this board as well as most other 4x4 boards. Test PROVE that the 8.8 is a stronger axle. The downfall is the C-clip.

8.8 vs. 44

Back on topic, I really think an 8.8 would be a good way to go Goatman. That link has numbers on stock axle strength tests. Should be a good read for you.

Matt, Matt, Matt......there's no way in hell that I would run an 8.8 with 37" tires. The only reason I would consider a D44 is because of getting 35 spline axles, and then I have my doubts. Besides, I would only consider a D44 because I already have one, and know of another that I can get for next to nothing.

Now, since you can get a Currie HP with 35 spline axles, can an 8.8 be built with 35 spline axles? I know the center section is a Currie custom unit, but I'm thinking they use 9" carriers.

 

[davidt]

why not just get a 9", they are cheap to build and gears are easy to set up...

 

[Goatman]

This could be done, but whichever way you set up gears (properly) they are going to break if you have to much tire. I don't care who says otherwise. You should never ever set gears out of specs, you are putting to much at risk when you are wheeling. Shafts are easy to change compared to setting new gears up on the trail.

I see what he means. Since the gears would be the weak link, I can see setting them a little deeper (very slightly), and with the advice of who does the gears. It is the deflection that can break them. I've been through this once. I had a Detroit installed in a D44, replacing the EZ locker that had been in there for awhile. It was difficult to get the used gears set up with the new Detroit without whining, so they played with the pattern trying to get the noise out. Not long after, I blew the ring and pinion bouncing on a loose rock and dirt hill, with 33's. I'm fairly convinced that the break was due to how the gears were set up......I should have left them a little noisy.

I'm just saying that I'm willing to consider that suggestion.

 

[Weasel]

This could be done, but whichever way you set up gears (properly) they are going to break if you have to much tire. I don't care who says otherwise. You should never ever set gears out of specs, you are putting to much at risk when you are wheeling. Shafts are easy to change compared to setting new gears up on the trail.

well desert racing isn't exactly what "specs" are designed for.

edit: Maybe a better explination. Under load all gear sets will flex. So if you set the gears normal under Heavy load the deflection will cause them to move slightly riding out on the edge of the teeth, which is bad and the majority of the cause of gear failure. Running the slightly deep cause more of the teeth to be engaged under load or under deflection. This is pretty common in most race circuits.

 

[Matt S.]

well desert racing isn't exactly what "specs" are designed for.

Haha, your right on that. I was just more concerned with people reading that have no idea what they are doing when setting up gears, getting this notion that doing this is a "normal" practice and is great for the longevity.

Goat, so even if you were to fun 37s on the 44 with 35 spline, you wouldn't worry about the gears?

 

[BrettM]

An interesting thought is how well a spooled 35 spline D44 would hold up in a buggy with 37's. It would be a fairly cheap axle to build, and would already be the right width, with good ground clearance.

I have trouble getting out of my mind that I broke a D44 ring and pinion on 33's, but there could have been extenuating circumstances. Who else has broken D44 gears?

Toyota

Diamond chromo housing, chryo'd Tacoma third, chromo shafts.

lightweight, great clearance, and I don't think it could be broken under a lightweight rig, even with 37s and 200hp. people often point out that Toyota's only have 4 bangers, but they have tons of gearing and tons of guys swap the Toy V6, Chevy 4.3 or SBC and the axles still hold up great.

 

[FarmerMatt]

Richard,
Keep your drive train for the 37's with the 37's... I ask you, what would be the point in keeping the terra 60 in a trail rig with 35's? Put the 44 back in big bird & build up a stout 30 for the front. Swap all your drive train into the buggy including your 4:1 231 case. Arguably, I've got a little more giddyup in my stroker than yours & I've never broken a rear 31 spline 9" shaft or my still stock, never split 135000 mile transfer case. The only thing my JD might have strength wise over your would be the front end, but we both know how stout your built 30 was. Hell, you break more with your 44 than you did with your 30... I've even got a front housing I'll donate for the cause. Truss it up, throw in some alloys / 760's & forget about it. It would be a weekend deal to swap in the drive train & than you'll be able to start mocking up the new chasis. Wheeling down time would be minimal.

Matt

 

[Roxtar]

Oh, and besides wanting to build on the cheap, I'm lazy so it can't be too labor intensive.

1) Strong.
2) Cheap.
3) Not labor intensive.

Pick any two.

 

[Goatman]

1) Strong.
2) Cheap.
3) Not labor intensive.

Pick any two.

Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?

 

[Goatman]

Richard,
Keep your drive train for the 37's with the 37's... I ask you, what would be the point in keeping the terra 60 in a trail rig with 35's? Put the 44 back in big bird & build up a stout 30 for the front. Swap all your drive train into the buggy including your 4:1 231 case. Arguably, I've got a little more giddyup in my stroker than yours & I've never broken a rear 31 spline 9" shaft or my still stock, never split 135000 mile transfer case. The only thing my JD might have strength wise over your would be the front end, but we both know how stout your built 30 was. Hell, you break more with your 44 than you did with your 30... I've even got a front housing I'll donate for the cause. Truss it up, throw in some alloys / 760's & forget about it. It would be a weekend deal to swap in the drive train & than you'll be able to start mocking up the new chasis. Wheeling down time would be minimal.

Matt

I keep coming back to this, Matt. While it would be nice to keep big bird stout enough for anything, it wouldn't need to be, and I liked it with 35's. Of course, in the sand and the snow I really like the 37's.......could switch them now and then. If I did that, I'd change the gearing to 4.88 for the XJ which I'd like better with the 35's, the 5.13's would be too low with the stroker and 35's. I'd want to build the D44 with a Super 44 kit to get the beefy alloy 33 spline shafts, then I wouldn't worry about breaking it.

How do you like the lower gearing in the buggy? I really like the 4 to 1 in the rock gardens on the camping trails, don't know how I'd like going back. I was thinking it could work well in the buggy to stay with the stock t-case and go to 5.89, or even 6.17 gears. The 6.17's would split the difference between the stock and 4 to 1 gearing with the 5.13's, which I think would be nice for a lighter buggy. On the hard stuff, many times I wish the gearing wasn't so low, but I've never gotten around to doing the mod so I can lock in 2nd gear.

Could try it, and if I wanted the lower gearing in the XJ just start looking for a deal on an Atlas.

 

[CRASH]

Can I ask a silly question?

Where would the buggy go that Big Bird doesn't already?

Personally, I can't see a buggy build that didn't include at least 39" tires, 8 cylinders, and some sort of portal axle.

Short of that, you've already got a buggy, it just happens to have a body on it.

 

[David Taylor]

Can I ask a silly question?

Where would the buggy go that Big Bird doesn't already?

Personally, I can't see a buggy build that didn't include at least 39" tires, 8 cylinders, and some sort of portal axle.

Short of that, you've already got a buggy, it just happens to have a body on it.

Only when you drive with no body can you gain true enlightenment

 

[CRASH]

Only when you drive with no body can you gain true enlightenment

Therein lies Goat's answer. Big Bird minus the bird.

 

[woody]

Can I ask a silly question?

Where would the buggy go that Big Bird doesn't already?

Personally, I can't see a buggy build that didn't include at least 39" tires, 8 cylinders, and some sort of portal axle.

Short of that, you've already got a buggy, it just happens to have a body on it.

LOL very true

 

[FarmerMatt]

How do you like the lower gearing in the buggy? I really like the 4 to 1 in the rock gardens on the camping trails, don't know how I'd like going back. I was thinking it could work well in the buggy to stay with the stock t-case and go to 5.89, or even 6.17 gears. The 6.17's would split the difference between the stock and 4 to 1 gearing with the 5.13's, which I think would be nice for a lighter buggy. On the hard stuff, many times I wish the gearing wasn't so low, but I've never gotten around to doing the mod so I can lock in 2nd gear.

Could try it, and if I wanted the lower gearing in the XJ just start looking for a deal on an Atlas.

I love the gearing in the buggy. 4.3:1 with 5:38 gears, but I do find myself swithing into 2nd about half the time. I've always contended that the stock t-case in the JD has kept me from breakage many times because it allows the tranny to slip a lot before it actually kicks in... Kind of a buffer before the torque is actually applied. This could be argued both ways though. The lower gearing is very nice & controlable in the rock gardens, but practice with 2 foot wheeling smooths out the gardens also. Do you remember how to drive that way any longer:laugh3:. The atlas will just add 2K to your build no matter how you look at it. 2K buys a lot of tube & link materials & you've alread got the 231...

 

[lugie]

Richard:

1/2 ton brakes on the D60 front and 15's are no problem, not too mention some weight loss.

Forget the 44, build something cool. I agree with Crash. A buggy without a V8 or a turbo just isn't as much fun.

 

[4ward]

I'm sorry Richard, but I really and truly believe you're heading down the wrong thought path. Buggies need to be tube. Starting with a body introduces so much crap that it isn't worth it. It was said above, a buggy requires big meats and pretty good hp #'s. All these guys dropping 4&6cyl motors in aren't really getting the full potential out of their junk. A true buggy SHOULD be rolled at least twice a day and keep on running/driving. You can't have a windshield and do that. A front 44 really isn't going to survive what a true buggy should be doing. I've got more, but I'm tired.

 

[BrettM]

Only when you drive with no body can you gain true enlightenment

i've had a taste of that, and I like it!

laying sideways into a rock and sliding on tube is beautiful. having no sheetmetal or glass behind the driver's seat is beautiful.

 

[Goatman]

Just keep what you have, you already have a quasi buggy, it's not worth it......

you have good axles, just move them over......

If you're going to do it, you should go all the way and use portals.......

A buggy should be a buggy, screw the MJ and the windshield.....



I'M SO CONFUSED....... :confused1