Boostwerks.com turbo XJ build...

[CanMan]

4 banger log style turbo manifolds go for about 400 bucks. Turbo manifolds are to allow the turbo to spool up faster and the entire manifold is made out of high quality stainless steel that is mandrel bent too.

~Alex

Manifolds and logs are great for lower end torque, as they dont flow as good as a header style manifold, which will give you the best top end. Ive seen log style and regular manifolds for cheaper than $400 for 4 bangers. Hell, there are some SS turbo header manifolds out there for under $250. What part of a log style is mandrel bent? Straight tubes off the flange, into one large tube, down to a V band clamp or a collector of some sort.

Yes, too big of headers and x over pipes will not help the turbo spool at a lower rpm. So a log style would work just fine for a Jeep, as it spends most its life at lower rpm's.

Think of it as primary header tube sizes on regular headers. 1.5" primaries will not flow as good as 1.75" primaires, but will give a little better low end(low low rpm).

Stainless is nice, dont get me wrong, but for those customers looking to keep it to more of a real world budget, may want mild steel. It can be built and Jet Hot coated for a little less, or around the same price as full SS.

Even if it is not coated, header wrap can help out a ton in keeping the heat down.

Just giving my thoughts on the kit. Nothing wrong with SS or mild steel.

 

[Dingo509]

What part of a log style is mandrel bent? Straight tubes off the flange, into one large tube, down to a V band clamp or a collector of some sort.

Not exactly. The tubes coming off of cylinders 1 and 6 need to be curved in towards the middle of the engine. And to avoid interference with the intake they probably have to bend downwards some too.

Think of it as primary header tube sizes on regular headers. 1.5" primaries will not flow as good as 1.75" primaires, but will give a little better low end(low low rpm).

You are correct about the performance of smaller vs larger tubes. But the primary tubes are completely dependant on the engine there going on. A 1.3L Suzuki engine will fall flat on it's face with 1.5" primaries, and you'd choke an 800CID blown mountain motor with 1.5" primaries

Stainless is nice, dont get me wrong, but for those customers looking to keep it to more of a real world budget, may want mild steel. It can be built and Jet Hot coated for a little less, or around the same price as full SS.

Even if it is not coated, header wrap can help out a ton in keeping the heat down.

Just giving my thoughts on the kit. Nothing wrong with SS or mild steel.

I agree on the mild steel option, especially coated. Both would be better. Just make sure there is sufficient wall thickness if we decide to wrap it. I know that most major Header manufactures warranty will be void if you wrap it. I was told this specifically by Borla.

Dingo

 

[Boostwerks.com]

Manifolds and logs are great for lower end torque, as they dont flow as good as a header style manifold, which will give you the best top end. Ive seen log style and regular manifolds for cheaper than $400 for 4 bangers. Hell, there are some SS turbo header manifolds out there for under $250. What part of a log style is mandrel bent? Straight tubes off the flange, into one large tube, down to a V band clamp or a collector of some sort.

Yes, too big of headers and x over pipes will not help the turbo spool at a lower rpm. So a log style would work just fine for a Jeep, as it spends most its life at lower rpm's.

Think of it as primary header tube sizes on regular headers. 1.5" primaries will not flow as good as 1.75" primaires, but will give a little better low end(low low rpm).

Stainless is nice, dont get me wrong, but for those customers looking to keep it to more of a real world budget, may want mild steel. It can be built and Jet Hot coated for a little less, or around the same price as full SS.

Even if it is not coated, header wrap can help out a ton in keeping the heat down.

Just giving my thoughts on the kit. Nothing wrong with SS or mild steel.

It's waaaayyy too early to respond to all of your concerns, but for now... The prices on mild steel sch40 mild steel piping are almost the same as 304 sch40. It would save at most $50.

Most of the cost is my labor. TIG welding takes time, and $. This kit is not for those ghetto fabber's

 

[alex22]

What part of a log style is mandrel bent? Straight tubes off the flange, into one large tube, down to a V band clamp or a collector of some sort.

The two end pieces are mandrel bent.

~Alex

 

[Boostwerks.com]

Manifolds and logs are great for lower end torque, as they dont flow as good as a header style manifold, which will give you the best top end. Ive seen log style and regular manifolds for cheaper than $400 for 4 bangers. Hell, there are some SS turbo header manifolds out there for under $250. What part of a log style is mandrel bent? Straight tubes off the flange, into one large tube, down to a V band clamp or a collector of some sort.

Yes, too big of headers and x over pipes will not help the turbo spool at a lower rpm. So a log style would work just fine for a Jeep, as it spends most its life at lower rpm's.

Think of it as primary header tube sizes on regular headers. 1.5" primaries will not flow as good as 1.75" primaires, but will give a little better low end(low low rpm).

Stainless is nice, dont get me wrong, but for those customers looking to keep it to more of a real world budget, may want mild steel. It can be built and Jet Hot coated for a little less, or around the same price as full SS.

Even if it is not coated, header wrap can help out a ton in keeping the heat down.

Just giving my thoughts on the kit. Nothing wrong with SS or mild steel.

Just to reduce some confusion, the manifold will be made from SCH40 pipe, NOT tubing. Sch40 pipe has over an 1/8" wall, and the elbows have a perfect ID and radius (same as mandrel bent). I have decided on a log style manifold for many reasons, such as: Keeping costs down, reducing build time, durability, space restrictions, and finally increasing spool time. The benefits of the log FAR outweigh any possible gains from a tubular design (In this case of the Jeep). Anyways, the larger A/R and wheel'd turbine of this turbo will keep the upper RPM flow high.

If you think $700 is expensive for a hand TIG welded turbo manifold, you havn't truely looked at the market. Nelson racing charges $3500 for a set of their SBC tubulars btw. :rof:

Speaking of tubular manifolds, here's some pics of my honda designsmade from the same 304 SCH40 pipe:

My race car:

Customers:

 

[praetorian]

Luv the pics.

 

[CSaddict]

Bryson its funny you made this thread when I have to build a 4.7 stroker manifold for a customer. Its going to be 6 into 2 into 1. 321SS, .065 wall tubing. Its going into an AMC PACER!!!!! The onwner is looking for 650 hp. We are thinking T67 dual ball bearing.

If these guys think $700 is steep wait till they see what the manifold I have to build will cost. Im thinking 25 hours minimum. Its going to be a sidewinder of sorts putting the turbo out next to the P/S pump.

 

[NXJ]

So, how are you designing your manifold? Isn't the T3/T4 a little small for this application? Gonna run an intercooler? Oil cooler? Boost controller? What are you doing for ECU? Stock TB/intake? Unaltered head/cam/CR?

 

[CanMan]

If these guys think $700 is steep wait till they see what the manifold I have to build will cost. Im thinking 25 hours minimum. Its going to be a sidewinder of sorts putting the turbo out next to the P/S pump.

Thats a custom one off design. These will be somewhat mass produced in a kit(from the sound of things :dunno, and im sure once one gets built, the rest will go smooth. And its just a log style anyways, no real thinking in design and placement of things, about the simplest to design and build IMO.

I could buy a bunch of J and U bends and some flanges and make a set of turbo headers also for a generic application.

My .02 again.

 

[urban yan]

Thats a custom one off design. These will be somewhat mass produced in a kit(from the sound of things :dunno

I'd hardly call Bryson's headers mass produced. Each header will be made, tediously, by one poor sap - Bryson. You could only call these things mass produced if Bryson had a staff making them, or if he had some sort-of automated process. He doesn't.

and im sure once one gets built, the rest will go smooth.

That's what I thought when I was putting up some drywall in the house this week. Obviously all the sheets were the same, but every sheet had it's complications. Bottom line: there's always something stupid that can go wrong with any job... regardless how redundant it may seem.


Well Bryson assuming you live up to your word than you got me. I'll just move my banks header to my WJ

 

[CanMan]

I'd hardly call Bryson's headers mass produced. Each header will be made, tediously, by one poor sap - Bryson. You could only call these things mass produced if Bryson had a staff making them, or if he had some sort-of automated process. He doesn't.

Never said they were mass produced, said they are somewhat mass produced. Sure, one person can make them, but once he gets it down to a T, im sure he could whip out between 3-5 each day. The demand for a turbo manifold for a 4.0 might not be high, but if it comes down to it, he *might* need to hire a helping hand. I dont know the guys situation, but when I used to built cabinets, they were considered mass produced, even though I was working alone and only got between 6-8 sets done in a day.




That's what I thought when I was putting up some drywall in the house this week. Obviously all the sheets were the same, but every sheet had it's complications. Bottom line: there's always something stupid that can go wrong with any job... regardless how redundant it may seem.

Sheets of drywall in a house and a manifold is like compairing apples and oranges. Since he seems to have the flanges, the sch40 SS pipe, and the log all planned out, im sure there could be very little that went wrong.

My .02 once more.

 

[urban yan]

My .02 once more.

You didn't like my drywall analogy... than you compared headers to cabinets? ummm... ok.

I guess all I'm going to add is this:
01) everything comes with a price; you decide if it's worth it. I'm sure a few guys will see the value in Bryson's offering while some won't.
02) I could list a thousand companies making cabinets, and only one guy making 4.0L turbo headers. It's comes back to your apples and oranges comment again my friend

Regardless. I'm done arguing here.



.

 

[CanMan]

You didn't like my drywall analogy... than you compared headers to cabinets? ummm... ok.

I guess all I'm going to add is this:
01) everything comes with a price; you decide if it's worth it. I'm sure a few guys will see the value in Bryson's offering while some won't.
02) I could list a thousand companies making cabinets, and only one guy making 4.0L turbo headers. It's comes back to your apples and oranges comment again my friend

Regardless. I'm done arguing here.



.

I never compaired making turbo headers to making cabinets. I was talking about (somewhat) 'mass' production, compairing how many can be built in a day, so go back and read it again. I was not in anyway refering to the difficulty of building either as you did with the dry wall sceniero.

 

[urban yan]

I never compaired making turbo headers to making cabinets. I was talking about (somewhat) 'mass' production, compairing how many can be built in a day, so go back and read it again. I was not in anyway refering to the difficulty of building either as you did with the dry wall sceniero.

The more often I read your comments, the more I realize you just want to argue.



.

 

[yossarian19]

Guys, I mean no offense to either of you and Urban, I've got a lot of respect for what I've done with your rig.
Seriously though - take it to PMs, both of ya. Not helpful.

 

[CanMan]

The more often I read your comments, the more I realize you just want to argue.



.

Yes, I really want to argue.

Argue about what dude? Really.

Ive been giving my opinions on things, no arguing here. :dunno:

 

[urban yan]

Look, all I'm saying is this: I agree with Canman that 600-700 is allot of money for us Jeep guys, BUT it's not like we have a allot of options here. We should be happy someone's taking the time and effort to make something for us.

My last car was a Pontiac Sunbird. The car had NO aftermarket support. Only one company made headers (non-turbo) and they cost $1200. Bryson's offering is a heckofadeal by comparison.

 

[XJ_ranger]

What kind of horsepower gains are you expecting with your setup?

Planning on any dyno time?

Any concerns over push rod strength / valve spring / rocker strength while running boost?

How much boost is 'okay' with a 100% stock motor?

At what point (RPM) do you expect the turbo to start spooling?

Thanks for jumping out there into a new direction with the I6 - I'm definitely interested in this - Turning 35"+ tires aired down to 4.5psi is A SHITLOAD of resistance...
across the lake bed, I can only get about 65mph anymore... don't have the ooomph to get outta 4th gear...

 

[Boostwerks.com]

What kind of horsepower gains are you expecting with your setup?

I'm shooting for 250/300tq at the wheels.

Planning on any dyno time?

Of course. Dyno Dynamics load based dyno.

Any concerns over push rod strength / valve spring / rocker strength while running boost?

Nope. The only thing that would be affected by the boost are the valve springs due to the boost pressure pushing on the back of the valve. However, the modest 8-10psi that I will be running won't be enough to cause any floating. The push rod and rocker strength are more affected by RPM, which won't really change.

How much boost is 'okay' with a 100% stock motor?

The amount of boost doesn't really limit much. What does however, is the amount of power you end up putting out, and how well it's tuned. You can boost 30psi with a small turbo and make 200hp, but if tuned well it's no more dangerous than running 5psi with a larger turbo making the same amount of power. Make sense? With that being said, I think a 75-100% power increase is.

At what point (RPM) do you expect the turbo to start spooling?

Easily 1500rpm. Probubly full boost by 2200-2500.

Thanks for jumping out there into a new direction with the I6 - I'm definitely interested in this - Turning 35"+ tires aired down to 4.5psi is A SHITLOAD of resistance...
across the lake bed, I can only get about 65mph anymore... don't have the ooomph to get outta 4th gear...

Thanks man! A turbo project isn't for everyone, but building a custom system with various components of your own is just as fun as building a lift.

That should cover everything.

 

[ColoradoRaptor]

That should cover everything.

I like what I see!! And Ilike the fact your right here close by!! May be interested when you have everything up and runnin!