Another "Not Starting thread"

[old_man]

Where did you get the idea that you couldn't jump start an automatic???

You can pull\push start an automatic, but jump starting is just fine.

 

[dennis461]

Where did you get the idea that you couldn't jump start an automatic???

You can pull\push start an automatic, but jump starting is just fine.

Everyone should pay close attention to what they type.
One letter missing changes everything.

The poster must have been talking about towing a manual transmission vehicle up to speed, then poping the clutch to "jump start".

The second poster must have meant you can not "jump start" an automatic.

Now the post is starting to get old, but here is a thought.

I have a new fuel pump, but the internal check valve broke already.
So my fuel pressure does NOT stay up after three seconds, causing a long crank start condition. If the poster is thinking the rig will not start and not cranking long enough, most of the simple tests will not reveal the problem.




.

 

[joe_peters]

Just re-read this thread for the 3rd time.

Ok, has spark--CPS/CKP crank sensor is good, both tested and he has spark so it has to be.

The B Latch relay provides 12 volt input to the coil, he has spark, so it must be good.

The coil is providing spark to the distributor, so we all know the CPS/CKP and the B Latch relay and the ICM and the coil are all good.

OP mentioned good blue spark to distributor, but poor spark to the plugs. Has new cap and new rotor, and we can a**ume that they are good, at least for now.

It was recommended to the OP to replace the plug wires--didn't see where that was done yet.

Do we know the condition of the spark plugs?

With one dead hole, poor plug wires and possibly poor plugs, plus we really don't know the battery's condition--how many volts are there while cranking, measured between the battery's terminals?

The OP doesn't know the fuel pressure or if the injectors are firing.

So, I guess we need some more data from the OP.

 

[cruiser54]

Dang those OPs!!!!!!!!!

 

[joe_peters]

Dang those OPs!!!!!!!!!

That is exactly what Deputy Fife said!

 

[RLR_69_XJ]

Well I DO want to get it going, that way when I do rebuild it, it will start and I won’t have to track down any other problems.
When you say “jump start” do you mean hook up battery cables to another car? Or are you saying push the car to start it?
I have been keeping a battery charger on it to keep up to specs. It reads 12.4 volts with the key on but not cranking it. I also keep the charger on the high amp “Start” setting when trying to start it.
I have not replaced the plugs or wires yet but they have only been on there for about 5k miles. I did wire brush the plugs and made sure they were clean. I would think they would be OK. But then again I could be wrong.
You are right, I still don’t know about the injectors yet. I still need to test them.
I also don’t know exactly how much fuel pressure I have, but with the key off for a minute or two, the fuel will squirt across the engine compartment when I push on the valve.

I just want everyone to know that I DO APPRECIATE all the input and help. I am trying to give you all the info I can as soon as I know for a fact what it is.

 

[joe_peters]

Ok, try this--remove the charger and hook up a voltmeter to read between the battery terminals. Have someone crank the engine over while you observe the voltmeter. Report back the voltage present when the engine is cranking.

 

[RLR_69_XJ]

OK, here are the readings.
Key off, 12.8 volts.
Key on, not starting, 12.6 volts.
Starting, 10.5 volts.
Key on after trying to start it, 12.1 volts.
Is the voltage dropping too much when starting? Or is that normal?

 

[joe_peters]

Normal, I would have been worried if it was dropping below 9.0 volts when cranking.

Well, you have spark, you seem to have fuel to the rail, are you getting a firing impulse to the injectors? Try the NOID light, $3 at a parts store.

You need spark, fuel, compression, and all at the right times for it to run. You have spark, you have compression (enough in 5 cylinders anyway), so I'm thinking the missing element is fuel. Fuel to the rail is useless if the injectors won't fire.

 

[RLR_69_XJ]

Non of the local auto parts stores have any NOID lights. I can order a kit but Its like $50.
Can I use a digital or analog volt meter?

 

[kastein]

Just get a 174 bulb (the dinky little dash indicator ones) and connect some bits of bell wire to it and use that... that's what I would do anyways.

A meter would work, but may not respond fast enough.

 

[joe_peters]

Non of the local auto parts stores have any NOID lights. I can order a kit but Its like $50.
Can I use a digital or analog volt meter?

Usually they won't read the pulse; follow Kastein's advice and roll-your-own, or call a few shops and see when the Snap-On/Mac tools truck stops by, they should have one.

 

[RLR_69_XJ]

Here are my findings.
I checked each injector with a home made NOID light and each injector is receiving signal. I did have some water inside the injector connector, so I dried it out just to make sure all was good.
I rechecked for spark and I am getting a good spark… large and white.
I held the throttle wide open and cranked it for about 10-15 seconds, twice, and then I tried to start it about 5 minuets later with no success.
Just for the heck of it, I had a buddy try starting it while I shot some starting fluid in the intake and it never even tried to start. I am at a loss now. I have spark, fuel and air, what else do I need? =/

 

[bigalpha]

Spark is supposed to be blue, right, instead of white?

Is it so blue it's white?

 

[joe_peters]

Spark is supposed to be blue, right, instead of white?

Is it so blue it's white?

This concerns me too. OP has blue spark from the coil to the distributor, but what seems to be a much reduced spark to the plug.

Compression isn't great, but should be enough to fire on 5 cylinders. Spraying starting fluid into the intake doesn't even get it to cough.

OP, lets go with spark plug wires need replacing to improve the quality of spark to the plugs.

 

[kastein]

Also, shot in the dark, have you checked the firing order and made sure the wires are on right?

 

[RLR_69_XJ]

OK, I will pick up some new plugs and wires and see where that takes me.
I am assuming the firing order is correct. It was running fine, then just died. BUT could it be a timing issue????

 

[joe_peters]

Well, you stated in one of the posts on the first page of this thread you changed the cap and rotor.

Did you remove the cap from the distributor, install the new cap, and then transfer one wire at at time from the old cap to the new cap?

Firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4, rotation is clockwise. Pull the number one plug, bring the piston to TDC on number one cylinder--use your thumb on the spark plug hole and rotate the engine until the timing marks on the harmonic balancer line up at the same time air pushes against your thumb. Confirm the rotor is pointing at number one spark plug tower of the distributor cap.

 

[RLR_69_XJ]

I will try what you are suggesting.
I did remove the cap and rotor but left all the wires on the original cap, put the new cap on and then transferred the wires one by one. And I doubled checked the firing order with a Chilton manual and it all matched up.
I did install new wires and spark plugs with no success. I took a small video of the plugs spark color just so everyone could see. It basically looks the same. I will upload it tomorrow.

 

[RLR_69_XJ]

OK, I put the #1 cylinder at TDC and made sure the timing sensor and mark on the harmonic balancer lined up, they did. I then pulled off the distributor cap and checked the rotor and it was lined with the # 1 spark plug wire. I then double checked the rest of the wires and they all lined up as well.