Buggy building on a budget

[Goatman]

I'm NOT going to build a buggy!
I'm NOT going to build a buggy!
I'm NOT going to build a buggy!
I'm NOT going to build a buggy!
I'm NOT going to build a buggy!
I'm NOT going to build a buggy!
I'm NOT going to build a buggy!
I'm NOT going to build a buggy!
I'm NOT going to build a buggy!


Well, now that I have that out of the way. :)

I'm thinking about going ahead and building a buggy out of one of the Commanches I have sitting in the back yard. IF I do it, it will have to be on a budget. A problem building on a budget is that I would be dissapointed if it didn't work a lot better than my XJ, which has a Tera60R in back and a shaved HPD44 in the front, both with alloy shafts and CTM's in the front, 5.13's and with 4 to1 t-case gears, and 37's. I also HATE breaking.

So, issues are what can I get away with gearing and axle strength wise, and where to best spend what money I'll have to throw at it. Anyone want to sell a good winch or an Atlas for $300? :)

Also, one choice would be to detune my XJ somewhat, going back to 35's, and use the 37's on the buggy. If I did that, I could move the Tera60 over to the buggy and build a D44 that I already have sitting around for the XJ. However, I like my XJ the way it is now, so it would be nice to leave it alone. Also, if I moved the Tera60 over, then the front would have to be 5 lug, but if I built something junkyard I could leave it all 8 lug making building the front axle easier and cheaper. Have to compare the cost of making the front 5 lug plus building the D44, to leaving the front 8 lug and building another rear axle.

This should make for some good discussion.

[tealcherokee]

i say go for it, i was going to build a buggy, but im just going to build my xj, as far as axles..... go to the jy, i kno around here i can get a 14 bolt rear 60 front for $250 matching set, i got the 60 rear for my xj for free

[FarmerMatt]

:laugh3::laugh3::laugh3::laugh3:

You know better than this Richard. Aint nothin cheap in this sport...

[JeepFreak21]

In on page 1 :wave:

How's the running gear in the MJ?
Billy

[JeepFreak21]

i say go for it, i was going to build a buggy, but im just going to build my xj, as far as axles..... go to the jy, i kno around here i can get a 14 bolt rear 60 front for $250 matching set, i got the 60 rear for my xj for free

How much for a ford front 60?
Billy

[Goatman]

In on page 1 :wave:

How's the running gear in the MJ?
Billy

Stock. I don't have the perfect platform, really, which is one of my hesitations because of the extra work. Both are short beds, which is irrelevant since I'll cut the back off. The one I would likely build is a 2wd 4cyl 4sp w/o power steering or A/C, with a blown head gasket and the body and interior are pretty rough. The other one would work well, but it's too nice to cut up. It's a 4.0 auto 2wd and the A/C works, very good interior and straight body. It would make a very nice driver, which it was before the aux fan and idiot guage quit and I got it hot and blew the head gasket towing some jet skis.

Parts I have are a running 4.0L out of my XJ (I put in a stroker), an AW4 and 231 t-case, a rear D44 out of an MJ, and a D30 front end. I was going to use these parts to replace the motor in the nice MJ and make it into a 4x4 for light trails, and use it for a driver. If I build a buggy, I'll just use the XJ for an occasional driver since it already has a nice stereo and the A/C works. I would likely swap the motors to fix the nice MJ and then sell it and use the money for the buggy project. That means I'd have to fix the motor with the blown headgasket for the buggy project, and get the wiring and TCM to put the AW4 in it.

I also have a set of SAW 12" coilovers, which I'd use for the rear, and RE ZJ coils I'd use in the front, plus some SAW shocks I'd likely use in the front.

I found another MJ I can buy for $600, and it's 4wd and runs fine, but it's a 2.8 5 sp, so has a 207 t-case, and it has no A/C. Don't know that I can use it for anything.

More ramblings.........

:)

[NXJ]

Do you have any pictures, it's much easier to evaluate when having a visual. Oh, and what is your definition of "buggy", all tube ? :)

[BrettM]

this project definitely needs square driveshafts at both ends

[043500]

Pull the bed (duh) and chop it down to about 108" WB. Get a pair of junkyard 60's (with 4.10's...won't have to regear unless it sees alot of street use) and drop in the 4.0L/auto you have. Weld up the diffs (or add spools/lockers of choice...but you said CHEAP).

custom build your own link setup front and rear (from what I;ve read you certainly can). Run an NP-203/205 doubler which I would presume you can find the parts in a junkyard and put it together yourself.

THen run anywhere from 37's-40's depending on what you can find for cheap. I bet you could build the whole thing for WELL under $5K since you have many of the parts already.
Only other thing would be a cage...and with your contacts I bet you could still get it all done for under $5K.

[OT]

Pull the bed (duh) and chop it down to about 108" WB. Get a pair of junkyard 60's (with 4.10's...won't have to regear unless it sees alot of street use) and drop in the 4.0L/auto you have. Weld up the diffs (or add spools/lockers of choice...but you said CHEAP).

custom build your own link setup front and rear (from what I;ve read you certainly can). Run an NP-203/205 doubler which I would presume you can find the parts in a junkyard and put it together yourself.

THen run anywhere from 37's-40's depending on what you can find for cheap. I bet you could build the whole thing for WELL under $5K since you have many of the parts already.
Only other thing would be a cage...and with your contacts I bet you could still get it all done for under $5K.
Gear setting isn't a problem with this group, nor is the ability to get strong differentials on the cheap.
Also, a cage is extremely NOT a problem for Goatman.
Whatever it is, with Goatman doing it, you better believe, it is going to turn out with much more money spent than originally planned.:D

[Goatman]

Pull the bed (duh) and chop it down to about 108" WB. Get a pair of junkyard 60's (with 4.10's...won't have to regear unless it sees alot of street use) and drop in the 4.0L/auto you have. Weld up the diffs (or add spools/lockers of choice...but you said CHEAP).

custom build your own link setup front and rear (from what I;ve read you certainly can). Run an NP-203/205 doubler which I would presume you can find the parts in a junkyard and put it together yourself.

THen run anywhere from 37's-40's depending on what you can find for cheap. I bet you could build the whole thing for WELL under $5K since you have many of the parts already.
Only other thing would be a cage...and with your contacts I bet you could still get it all done for under $5K.

OK, a few more parameters. I'll keep the cab, since I like a little protection from the sun and rain, and I like a windshield. No doors, and tubed out from the cab back, with a full cage. I've already done my current cage, and narrowed my front D44, so I can handle all fab work and mechanical work, except for setting up gears. I won't run a spool in the front, but I'll run a spool or weld the rear. I'll build my own link suspension. Tire size needs to be what stock axles can handle, since I won't spend the coin on chromo's and CTM's.

I can get axles pretty cheap, it's just a matter of finding them. Oh, and besides wanting to build on the cheap, I'm lazy so it can't be too labor intensive.

[BrettM]

Tire size needs to be what stock axles can handle, since I won't spend the coin on chromo's and CTM's.


well unless you're sticking with 33s (yeah right!) that means a 60 front, right? either that or something military like Volvo or Mog portals, or rockwells. I think Volvo C303 portals and 37s would be awesome.

or just make me an offer :laugh3:

http://img517.echo.cx/img517/531/becca0204lk2rm.md.jpg

[BrettM]

oh, and after seeing Matt's Cat perform, I think boatside rockers are a must if this is going to be called a buggy.

[Goatman]

Yeah, the rockers are going to have to be cut and beveled way in. That's one of the reasons for doing it. I'd like to do something similar to the XJ, but the problem is that when I run doors I'd want some rocker protection sticking out. Can't have it both ways.

There are a few choices for the rear, but not much for the front. A cheap D60 is going to have the pumpkin on the wrong side, so I'd have to get a D300. Those are heavier and hang down more than a 231, but are strong with a 32 slpline output. I'm thinking about how low the diff gears would need to be to not worry about low t-case gears. Gear choices are better with a D60 than with a 14 bolt, one negative of the 14 bolt.

Does anyone know what's involved in changing an Atlas from drivers drop to pass drop?

[tealcherokee]

if you get a 300, and advance adaptors clocking ring, you can get it pretty much flat, on the passangers side, but you have to make your own shifters

[Captain Ron]

Ok.

So you want cheap, quick, and easy...



Nevermind. :D

--ron

[BrettM]

Ok.

So you want cheap, quick, and easy...



Nevermind. :D

--ron
where's your MJ buggy buildup?!

[Ghost]

OK, a few more parameters. I'll keep the cab, since I like a little protection from the sun and rain, and I like a windshield. No doors, and tubed out from the cab back, with a full cage. .


This is really funny since you live in CALIFORNIA! The state of no rain!

[woody]

You have your current rig pretty well nailed as it sits... I imagine it could serve as your 'camping & trip rig' for years to come.

I question what the objective is? Are you looking for something that performs similarly or a little better? A 'beater' that you can abuse more than the XJ?

You know your way around a mid-arm/XJ coil & leaves... I'd like to see what you'd do with links/coilovers over 60s.

[Lincoln]

This thread is the beginning of massive cash.

[Goatman]

:laugh3::laugh3::laugh3::laugh3:

You know better than this Richard. Aint nothin cheap in this sport...


This thread is the beginning of massive cash.


Exactly why I don't want to do it, and I really don't need another project. But, the thought of having the finished product is very inticing. :D

Ah, gives me something to think about, rather than plotting out linking the rear and extending the wheelbase on the XJ.

Woody, the XJ would be for camping runs, like Swamp and Rubicon, and for the sand and snow, and would be a part time driver (and back up for anything). With all the work into the body, and effort keeping it a 4 door, I'm afraid I'm going to totally tear it up. It should last indefinitely if I quit using it for the hardest core stuff, and with the stroker, the chop conversion, and the way it's set up, it's pretty fun to drive.

I was at a friends shop last Thurs evening helping him tube out the back of an XJ buggy, and I got bit hard. He was inspired by FarmerMatt's CAT at the JV run, ran across an XJ he traded someone out of, and started cutting.

[Lincoln]

I've thought pretty hard about the same thing. Only I was looking into going back to 33's and the D30. Just don't want to deal with two rigs and the smaller one will only get used for mountain drives and hunting.

You can still camp out of something pretty buggified if you plan right and there is a lot of stupid shit you can do almost anywhere if it is.

Just face it, you've become old and senial. If your going to build a fun buggy then build it stout and take your hits on the camping rig. I don't get running low pinion crap and slapping big axles in with stock shafts.

[Mr.OverKill]

In on page 1 :wave:
missed page 1 but in on 2!

try going the real budget JY wars way and go with what you got to the extreem, when donald trump gives me a couple mil i plan on going off the charts but untill then its the JY for me, see how you can do going that way, bet you could surprise a lot of people!

[tealcherokee]

i want to build a buggy yj also.....just dont have the moneys to get one to start

[Goatman]

missed page 1 but in on 2!

try going the real budget JY wars way and go with what you got to the extreem, when donald trump gives me a couple mil i plan on going off the charts but untill then its the JY for me, see how you can do going that way, bet you could surprise a lot of people!

Sorry, Troy, like Lincoln said I must be getting senile. I have no idea what you're talking about.

real budget JY wars way :dunno:

go with what you got to the extreem :dunno:

see how you can do going that way, bet you could surprise a lot of people! :dunno:

[Mr.OverKill]

Sorry, Troy, like Lincoln said I must be getting senile. I have no idea what you're talking about.

real budget JY wars way :dunno:

go with what you got to the extreem :dunno:

see how you can do going that way, bet you could surprise a lot of people! :dunno:
lets try this JUNK YARD WARS, cheep or free from junk yards (cheep ). mabi try building a trail monster ( extreem ).its amazing what some people build out of scrap parts and a good base rig ( your MJ ). well it works for me ( the junk yard )and i have my welding machine, only a thought though. its your project.

[Weasel]

sorta sounds like you know what you want to do, just gotta do it. You don't want to tear up your XJ and still run the hard or harder stuff, maybe not todaly buggy but something new to beat on.

You've already got the MJ's, throw the axles under it, link it, cage the cab, and flatbed the rear.

[Goatman]

Troy, thanks. Missed the junk yard wars.... :doh:

That's one of the thoughts, just chop it, cage it, link it, and throw some big axles under it, and beat the snot out of it. :)


Basically, this is an excersize in trying to talk myself into it.

[Phil]

Richard, I think you should do something similar to the television show "Junkyard Wars" by taking what you have and building a very capable buggy out of it. If Donald Trump were to give me a couple million dollars, I would buy new and high quality parts. However, right now I need to purchase used parts from junkyards. I think it would be interesting if you did a low-budget buildup, because I believe you could surprise many people with what you accomplished.

Translated.

[Goatman]

Has anyone heard of weakness problems with a 35 spline D44 ARB?

Wish there was a 35 slpine D44 spool, which should be stronger.

[Mike L]

Has anyone heard of weakness problems with a 35 spline D44 ARB?

Wish there was a 35 slpine D44 spool, which should be stronger.

IIRC there was a company back east that made 35 spline d44 axles and spools before ARB came out with the locker for it. This is going back 3-4 years at least.

-Mike

EDIT: I did some Google searching and came upon THIS (http://www.partsmikeparts.com/44%20spool.htm). It is on Parts Mike's website. You may want to give him a call or the boys over at Superior. :wierd:

-Mike

[davidt]

What size tires do you want to run? What WB do you want? You could probably get down to 110" without chopping off the bed (brettm will chime in here). I am at 112" on my shortened long bed. Fully tubed out rears look very good, but I am too lazy for that, and I think my rear end looks good. Also, which rig is yours currently (is it the yellow cheromanche, please excuse my ignorance here)

[Lincoln]

Richard, I might have a line on one also. Spool with be the most cost effective way to go. One thing I've wondered about and never researched was if the spool creates any more shock loading on the ring gear. Not really when crawling that much but kicking it to the trail head and back. Probably not much of an issue.

The ARB is the same as their new 9" design. I haven't heard of any problems with them. Could be though, I haven't ever looked into it. Don't really want to know how weak my junk really is. When I start cutting I need to pull my third link bracket off and I'm going to check the rear end the best I can. If I does seem like there is going to be a problem with the ring gear I'll probably ship a set off to Bobby Long or someone and have it freeze treated. Can't remember what the gains were but I think they were around 10-15 percent.

Another thing I'm watching is the ring gear didn't pattern worth a crap when I set it up. Either shallow drive and good coast or good drive and deep coast. I didn't want to mess with sending them back so I just set them up for a good drive side. Only put about 2K on the road and hit some trails 20 times or so this year so basically just a break in.

[XJ_ranger]

it would be interesting to see what the ring gear mounting side locations would be when considering a d60 spool VS a d44 spool...

the 35 spline shafts would be the same size, and id bet that custom bearing shops could make a bearing that the ID of the bearing is the OD of the spool and the OD of the bearing matches the d44 bearing cap...

i realise that thte bolts wont line up on the ring gear, but why couldnt you drill the spool?

hmmm

i shouldnt speak my thoughts...

[Weasel]

I would think some of the desert shops could get you a spool for the D44, Sandy Cone, ect. As for shock loading, I would think it would be about the same as an ARB lcoked maybe a bit less as there "could" be some slop in the ARB that would case a bit more loading as the slop is taken up but we're talking pretty small. The best for preventing shock loading to both wheels would be an open diff, or just let off the gas when landing.

Sounds like you've already talked yourself into it just need to get on it!

Also when setting up your gears run them a bit deeper so when you are out desert running the flex in the ring gear won't run it out to the outer edge and should reduce teeth chipping or breaking.

[Goatman]

What size tires do you want to run? What WB do you want? You could probably get down to 110" without chopping off the bed (brettm will chime in here). I am at 112" on my shortened long bed. Fully tubed out rears look very good, but I am too lazy for that, and I think my rear end looks good. Also, which rig is yours currently (is it the yellow cheromanche, please excuse my ignorance here)

I think I want to run about 105". The bed is going bye bye, and likely so would all or nearly all of the frame behind the cab. To keep it cheap, I'd probably run the 37's that I have now, and put the 35's back on the XJ. If I do that, I have to see about using my 15" aluminum beadlocks on a D60 front end.....don't know if that much can be ground off the calipers. Anybody know?

Yes, my current rig is the yellow Cheromanche.
http://www.fototime.com/2CD2713E91C3904/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/AB32E3BE282B3BB/standard.jpg

[Goatman]

An interesting thought is how well a spooled 35 spline D44 would hold up in a buggy with 37's. It would be a fairly cheap axle to build, and would already be the right width, with good ground clearance.

I have trouble getting out of my mind that I broke a D44 ring and pinion on 33's, but there could have been extenuating circumstances. Who else has broken D44 gears?

[Matt S.]

Why run a 44 though. In all seriousness. look at the 8.8s if your thinking 1/2 ton.

you can get alloys cheap and you know there is enough info comparing them to 44s to make them worth it. They might hold 37s better than a 44. And for the front, if you arnt doing a stroker and its going to be a light rig, do the 44. Most your money will be in the front end and you already know that. 300 bucks for alloy rears is nothin. The tube work doesnt have to be extravagent. Do as little tube as you can, and run as little sheetmetal as possible. Keep it light, and do the front end right. You can probly get away with 6 to 8 grand for the total build.


hell, for free food. I would come down and do some work for you if you do it! and you can hold me to that!

[Weasel]

8.8 vs. a 44? First time I've heard that arguement.

35 spline 44 should hold up fine, as for the gears read what I said above. Set them deeper then when they flex they will run true.

[Matt S.]

Learn to search then Weasel. Its on this board as well as most other 4x4 boards. Test PROVE that the 8.8 is a stronger axle. The downfall is the C-clip.

8.8 vs. 44 (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24854)

Back on topic, I really think an 8.8 would be a good way to go Goatman. That link has numbers on stock axle strength tests. Should be a good read for you.

[Matt S.]

Also when setting up your gears run them a bit deeper so when you are out desert running the flex in the ring gear won't run it out to the outer edge and should reduce teeth chipping or breaking.


This could be done, but whichever way you set up gears (properly) they are going to break if you have to much tire. I don't care who says otherwise. You should never ever set gears out of specs, you are putting to much at risk when you are wheeling. Shafts are easy to change compared to setting new gears up on the trail.

[Goatman]

Learn to search then Weasel. Its on this board as well as most other 4x4 boards. Test PROVE that the 8.8 is a stronger axle. The downfall is the C-clip.

8.8 vs. 44 (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24854)

Back on topic, I really think an 8.8 would be a good way to go Goatman. That link has numbers on stock axle strength tests. Should be a good read for you.

Matt, Matt, Matt......there's no way in hell that I would run an 8.8 with 37" tires. The only reason I would consider a D44 is because of getting 35 spline axles, and then I have my doubts. Besides, I would only consider a D44 because I already have one, and know of another that I can get for next to nothing.

Now, since you can get a Currie HP with 35 spline axles, can an 8.8 be built with 35 spline axles? I know the center section is a Currie custom unit, but I'm thinking they use 9" carriers.

[davidt]

why not just get a 9", they are cheap to build and gears are easy to set up...

[Goatman]

This could be done, but whichever way you set up gears (properly) they are going to break if you have to much tire. I don't care who says otherwise. You should never ever set gears out of specs, you are putting to much at risk when you are wheeling. Shafts are easy to change compared to setting new gears up on the trail.

I see what he means. Since the gears would be the weak link, I can see setting them a little deeper (very slightly), and with the advice of who does the gears. It is the deflection that can break them. I've been through this once. I had a Detroit installed in a D44, replacing the EZ locker that had been in there for awhile. It was difficult to get the used gears set up with the new Detroit without whining, so they played with the pattern trying to get the noise out. Not long after, I blew the ring and pinion bouncing on a loose rock and dirt hill, with 33's. I'm fairly convinced that the break was due to how the gears were set up......I should have left them a little noisy.

I'm just saying that I'm willing to consider that suggestion.

[Weasel]

This could be done, but whichever way you set up gears (properly) they are going to break if you have to much tire. I don't care who says otherwise. You should never ever set gears out of specs, you are putting to much at risk when you are wheeling. Shafts are easy to change compared to setting new gears up on the trail.

well desert racing isn't exactly what "specs" are designed for.

edit: Maybe a better explination. Under load all gear sets will flex. So if you set the gears normal under Heavy load the deflection will cause them to move slightly riding out on the edge of the teeth, which is bad and the majority of the cause of gear failure. Running the slightly deep cause more of the teeth to be engaged under load or under deflection. This is pretty common in most race circuits.

[Matt S.]

well desert racing isn't exactly what "specs" are designed for.


Haha, your right on that. I was just more concerned with people reading that have no idea what they are doing when setting up gears, getting this notion that doing this is a "normal" practice and is great for the longevity.

Goat, so even if you were to fun 37s on the 44 with 35 spline, you wouldn't worry about the gears?

[BrettM]

An interesting thought is how well a spooled 35 spline D44 would hold up in a buggy with 37's. It would be a fairly cheap axle to build, and would already be the right width, with good ground clearance.

I have trouble getting out of my mind that I broke a D44 ring and pinion on 33's, but there could have been extenuating circumstances. Who else has broken D44 gears?
Toyota :D

Diamond chromo housing, chryo'd Tacoma third, chromo shafts.

lightweight, great clearance, and I don't think it could be broken under a lightweight rig, even with 37s and 200hp. people often point out that Toyota's only have 4 bangers, but they have tons of gearing and tons of guys swap the Toy V6, Chevy 4.3 or SBC and the axles still hold up great.

[FarmerMatt]

Richard,
Keep your drive train for the 37's with the 37's... I ask you, what would be the point in keeping the terra 60 in a trail rig with 35's? Put the 44 back in big bird & build up a stout 30 for the front. Swap all your drive train into the buggy including your 4:1 231 case. Arguably, I've got a little more giddyup in my stroker than yours & I've never broken a rear 31 spline 9" shaft or my still stock, never split 135000 mile transfer case. The only thing my JD might have strength wise over your would be the front end, but we both know how stout your built 30 was. Hell, you break more with your 44 than you did with your 30... I've even got a front housing I'll donate for the cause. Truss it up, throw in some alloys / 760's & forget about it. It would be a weekend deal to swap in the drive train & than you'll be able to start mocking up the new chasis. Wheeling down time would be minimal.

Matt

[Roxtar]

Oh, and besides wanting to build on the cheap, I'm lazy so it can't be too labor intensive.1) Strong.
2) Cheap.
3) Not labor intensive.

Pick any two. :D

[Goatman]

1) Strong.
2) Cheap.
3) Not labor intensive.

Pick any two. :D

Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?

:D

[Goatman]

Richard,
Keep your drive train for the 37's with the 37's... I ask you, what would be the point in keeping the terra 60 in a trail rig with 35's? Put the 44 back in big bird & build up a stout 30 for the front. Swap all your drive train into the buggy including your 4:1 231 case. Arguably, I've got a little more giddyup in my stroker than yours & I've never broken a rear 31 spline 9" shaft or my still stock, never split 135000 mile transfer case. The only thing my JD might have strength wise over your would be the front end, but we both know how stout your built 30 was. Hell, you break more with your 44 than you did with your 30... I've even got a front housing I'll donate for the cause. Truss it up, throw in some alloys / 760's & forget about it. It would be a weekend deal to swap in the drive train & than you'll be able to start mocking up the new chasis. Wheeling down time would be minimal.

Matt

I keep coming back to this, Matt. While it would be nice to keep big bird stout enough for anything, it wouldn't need to be, and I liked it with 35's. Of course, in the sand and the snow I really like the 37's.......could switch them now and then. If I did that, I'd change the gearing to 4.88 for the XJ which I'd like better with the 35's, the 5.13's would be too low with the stroker and 35's. I'd want to build the D44 with a Super 44 kit to get the beefy alloy 33 spline shafts, then I wouldn't worry about breaking it.

How do you like the lower gearing in the buggy? I really like the 4 to 1 in the rock gardens on the camping trails, don't know how I'd like going back. I was thinking it could work well in the buggy to stay with the stock t-case and go to 5.89, or even 6.17 gears. The 6.17's would split the difference between the stock and 4 to 1 gearing with the 5.13's, which I think would be nice for a lighter buggy. On the hard stuff, many times I wish the gearing wasn't so low, but I've never gotten around to doing the mod so I can lock in 2nd gear.

Could try it, and if I wanted the lower gearing in the XJ just start looking for a deal on an Atlas.

[CRASH]

Can I ask a silly question?

Where would the buggy go that Big Bird doesn't already?

Personally, I can't see a buggy build that didn't include at least 39" tires, 8 cylinders, and some sort of portal axle.

Short of that, you've already got a buggy, it just happens to have a body on it. :)

[David Taylor]

Can I ask a silly question?

Where would the buggy go that Big Bird doesn't already?

Personally, I can't see a buggy build that didn't include at least 39" tires, 8 cylinders, and some sort of portal axle.

Short of that, you've already got a buggy, it just happens to have a body on it. :)

Only when you drive with no body can you gain true enlightenment

[CRASH]

Only when you drive with no body can you gain true enlightenment


Therein lies Goat's answer. Big Bird minus the bird.

[woody]

Can I ask a silly question?

Where would the buggy go that Big Bird doesn't already?

Personally, I can't see a buggy build that didn't include at least 39" tires, 8 cylinders, and some sort of portal axle.

Short of that, you've already got a buggy, it just happens to have a body on it. :)


LOL very true

[FarmerMatt]

How do you like the lower gearing in the buggy? I really like the 4 to 1 in the rock gardens on the camping trails, don't know how I'd like going back. I was thinking it could work well in the buggy to stay with the stock t-case and go to 5.89, or even 6.17 gears. The 6.17's would split the difference between the stock and 4 to 1 gearing with the 5.13's, which I think would be nice for a lighter buggy. On the hard stuff, many times I wish the gearing wasn't so low, but I've never gotten around to doing the mod so I can lock in 2nd gear.

Could try it, and if I wanted the lower gearing in the XJ just start looking for a deal on an Atlas.

I love the gearing in the buggy. 4.3:1 with 5:38 gears, but I do find myself swithing into 2nd about half the time. I've always contended that the stock t-case in the JD has kept me from breakage many times because it allows the tranny to slip a lot before it actually kicks in... Kind of a buffer before the torque is actually applied. This could be argued both ways though. The lower gearing is very nice & controlable in the rock gardens, but practice with 2 foot wheeling smooths out the gardens also. Do you remember how to drive that way any longer:laugh3:. The atlas will just add 2K to your build no matter how you look at it. 2K buys a lot of tube & link materials & you've alread got the 231...

[lugie]

Richard:

1/2 ton brakes on the D60 front and 15's are no problem, not too mention some weight loss.

Forget the 44, build something cool. I agree with Crash. A buggy without a V8 or a turbo just isn't as much fun.

[4ward]

I'm sorry Richard, but I really and truly believe you're heading down the wrong thought path. Buggies need to be tube. Starting with a body introduces so much crap that it isn't worth it. It was said above, a buggy requires big meats and pretty good hp #'s. All these guys dropping 4&6cyl motors in aren't really getting the full potential out of their junk. A true buggy SHOULD be rolled at least twice a day and keep on running/driving. You can't have a windshield and do that. A front 44 really isn't going to survive what a true buggy should be doing. I've got more, but I'm tired.

[BrettM]

Only when you drive with no body can you gain true enlightenment
i've had a taste of that, and I like it!

laying sideways into a rock and sliding on tube is beautiful. having no sheetmetal or glass behind the driver's seat is beautiful.

[Goatman]

Just keep what you have, you already have a quasi buggy, it's not worth it......

you have good axles, just move them over......

If you're going to do it, you should go all the way and use portals.......

A buggy should be a buggy, screw the MJ and the windshield.....



I'M SO CONFUSED....... :confused1

:eek:

[Goatman]

Richard:

1/2 ton brakes on the D60 front and 15's are no problem, not too mention some weight loss.

Forget the 44, build something cool. I agree with Crash. A buggy without a V8 or a turbo just isn't as much fun.

I really want a hybrid 60 for the front, even if I don't build a buggy/truggy. I need to learn more about the 1/2 ton brakes on the 60 outers. I know the hub can be turned down and drilled, or 5 lug hubs bought from Parts Mike and a couple of other places. What caliper bracket do you use for the 1/2 ton brakes, or do you have to make one?

You see, if I don't build the MJ, I'll end up extending and linking the rear, which means I'll have to cut some more body and redo some tubing in the back, and I'll want a hybrid front axle. At some point, it seems a shame to keep cutting this one up more when I have a junk MJ I can work on.

:dunno:


But, since I'm lazy, I can web fab. Seems to work for plenty of others.

:D

[Mr.OverKill]

Just keep what you have, you already have a quasi buggy, it's not worth it......

you have good axles, just move them over......

If you're going to do it, you should go all the way and use portals.......

A buggy should be a buggy, screw the MJ and the windshield.....



I'M SO CONFUSED....... :confused1

:eek:

i said it yesterday and i will give my .02 again, JUNK YARD WARS!! its obvious you have the means to do it the $$ way just by the looks of Big Bird, and i really dont know you at all other than right here in cyber space but..........




you did it beautifull once, now do it EXTREEM!! go true buggy and 60's, V8 and all keeping the $ to a minimum. see what develops out of a budget seuited to a trailer park instead of a country club. and thats my thoughts.

[xjcrawlr]

I'm slowly coming around to BrettM's thinking about Toyota's.

If strong, light, (relatively) inexpensive, and good clearance is what you want, then I'd seriously look at the Toy axles. Gears available up to 6.71, multiple locker options, and hi-pinions.

For the rear..... start with a late model 4-runner 8", disk brakes, gears, lincon-locker, and 300M shafts.

For the front......get an FJ80 housing (hi-pinion standard), gears, factory E-locker, and a set the new Longfield Super Birfs (comparable to alloy 60's).

37" to 39" tires will be NO problem with a light rig on these axles and
15" wheels will work, although you'd have to get some with 6-lugs.

Something to think about...

[CRASH]

I've said it many times, I love Toyota stuff, within limits.

But PLEASE, they are 30 spline axles. 30 splines is still 30 splines, no matter what the material. In deep rocks with big tires, they are going ot break.

I'm slowly coming around to BrettM's thinking about Toyota's.

If strong, light, (relatively) inexpensive, and good clearance is what you want, then I'd seriously look at the Toy axles. Gears available up to 6.71, multiple locker options, and hi-pinions.

For the rear..... start with a late model 4-runner 8", disk brakes, gears, lincon-locker, and 300M shafts.

For the front......get an FJ80 housing (hi-pinion standard), gears, factory E-locker, and a set the new Longfield Super Birfs (comparable to alloy 60's).

37" to 39" tires will be NO problem with a light rig on these axles and
15" wheels will work, although you'd have to get some with 6-lugs.

Something to think about...

[Goatman]

I worked for Toyota for 10 years. I'm done with them.

Marlin Crawler is a good personal friend. I still won't run Toyota stuff.

I know Toyota stuff is good, but why do so many big tired 'yota's run Dana axles?

[BrettM]

I know Toyota stuff is good, but why do so many big tired 'yota's run Dana axles?

(1) width, wider custom front 8" housings are a recent development
(2) birfs, the 30 spline 300m birfs have only been out a couple months, and now many guys are running them successfully on 39-42" tires.

but that question was rhetorical, now wasn't it? :laugh3:

You need boatsides, a linked rear, and a longer wheelbase. Otherwise Matt will keep walking the last fall on Wreckingball and you will keep getting denied. Just pick your vehicle.

[Captain Ron]

where's your MJ buggy buildup?!

...
I can web fab. Seems to work for plenty of others.


:D

--ron

[Kaczman]

You need boatsides, a linked rear, and a longer wheelbase.

Richard,
I will not be offended in any way if you'd like to copy my junk.


Seriously.


Really, I don't care.


Go ahead.










All kidding aside, I can't see how "buggy" and "budget" can be used in the same sentence. It's either a budget beater or a buggy. Even with connections a reliable, cheap, and capable rig is the the Holy Grail of our hobby.

-Jon

[BIGWOODY]

Here's the "BUDGET" buggy I told my wife I was building......whatever your budget is..double it and you might be close to what it'll really cost.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d21/gmanstone1/DSCF0192.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d21/gmanstone1/DSCF0202.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d21/gmanstone1/DSCF0205.jpg

[lugie]

OOO OO :dool: Do I see Hi9?

Looking awesome Greg. When we going wheelin?

[CRASH]

That looks quite thrifty.

[FarmerMatt]

That looks quite thrifty.
Everybody has their own budget. This is one instance where size counts, budget size that is...

So Richard,
Was Steve (I think his name was Steve, He followed us up Back Door) cutting his rig up or did he get a new one to cut up. He seemed like a hell of a nice guy.

[Lupine]

That looks quite thrifty.

Don't even think about it, babe. I *STILL* don't have my own rig. And now I'm knocked up. Jakazz.

[BIGWOODY]

Don't even think about it, babe. I *STILL* don't have my own rig. And now I'm knocked up. Jakazz.
I had to check your location, cause you sound like an echo of my wife. Of course her being knocked up would have been news to me. My MJ was suppose to be hers...but someone offered me more money than she had..lol

[Goatman]

Don't even think about it, babe. I *STILL* don't have my own rig. And now I'm knocked up. Jakazz.

So, he works on everyone else's rig and keeps you tied down at home........what a guy.

So, URF'd?


:D



:wave:

How are the little kicks doing?

[CRASH]

Two weeks, max. Then it's :rattle:

[Goatman]

So Richard,
Was Steve (I think his name was Steve, He followed us up Back Door) cutting his rig up or did he get a new one to cut up. He seemed like a hell of a nice guy.

He got another one to cut up, for nothing or next to nothing. Got a couple hundred dollars of tube and started cutting. Nice shop there at the school, bender, plasma cutter, etc. So far, nothing in front of the core support, windshield is gone, fenders are gone, floor is there to just behind the front seats. Caged, tubed to the front, and tubed out the back, working on the link mounts. It'll be super cheapo, and just for the fun of it. He's got the blue tubed XJ, and a TJ on 37's, so this would be to let the kids play around in. He's got a few axles laying around, a set or two of front and rear Waggy's, and a GM front D60 and 35 spline semi-float rear D60 with matching gears, plus a couple of XJ D44's. He's gonna run it stock till they break something.

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

I haven't scrolled to the end of the thread, but that's the plan for my MJ. Front HP44 with D60 outers and 35 spline ARB/axles. Not exactly inexpensive though. I've already got the D60 inner C's at a buddy's who is supposedly going to open up the axle stub still welded in them so they'll fit on the D44 tubes. The rear is going to be a HP60 center section with the short tube replaced with a long tube and adapters to mount D60 front spindles for full float. Then add custom double splined 35 spline shafts and some sort of 35 spline locker. That one's not cheap either though. :( These axles will be labor intensive too I suppose. That's my plan for MJ buggy axles though. Jeff

Has anyone heard of weakness problems with a 35 spline D44 ARB?

Wish there was a 35 slpine D44 spool, which should be stronger.

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

Again, I haven't made it to the end of the thread, but I did see pics of a Superior full float D44 kit that I think used 33 or 35 spline shafts. Might be something to look into. Jeff

An interesting thought is how well a spooled 35 spline D44 would hold up in a buggy with 37's. It would be a fairly cheap axle to build, and would already be the right width, with good ground clearance.

I have trouble getting out of my mind that I broke a D44 ring and pinion on 33's, but there could have been extenuating circumstances. Who else has broken D44 gears?

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

I had to check your location, cause you sound like an echo of my wife. Of course her being knocked up would have been news to me. My MJ was suppose to be hers...but someone offered me more money than she had..lol

So you sold the MJ buggy? What's the rear axle in your new buggy? Must be a 9", but with that truss it looks like some sort of custom square housing. Jeff

[BIGWOODY]

So you sold the MJ buggy? What's the rear axle in your new buggy? Must be a 9", but with that truss it looks like some sort of custom square housing. Jeff
alloy 35spline strange shafts, true hi9 center section with solid spacer, extra thrust block, 1350 forged yoke. It's a full width 9" housing from a late 70's F-series pickup with a bridge added for link mounts and a truss added as of last night(not pictured). I've got $2200 in the rear axle including disc brakes, it looked to be the cheapest route with the most strength. The front is an HP60, chromo shafts, 35 spline outters, Dedenbear knuckles, homebrew 5 on 5 1/2 hub conversion with half ton chevy brakes. I think this axle combo will suit my needs. I left them full width because I like riding a lot of off camber stuff and like the extra stability(and my wheels are 5" BS). I'll run a few comps. in it but it wasn't really built soley for that, more of an extreme trail buggy.


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d21/gmanstone1/DSCF0194.jpg

[xj4moab]

Richard i ran into the same problem this year put 37 on the XJ and beat the snot out of it or just keep it a trail rig just bite the bullet and build a full buggy :laugh3:
Narrow the front clip off of the MJ and slap it on

http://images.snapfish.com/3457732723232%7Ffp338%3Enu%3D3257%3E6%3B6%3E58%3B% 3EWSNRCG%3D3233388333%3B64nu0mrj

[Weasel]

Personaly I would like to play around with a mostly sheetmetal/buggy rig. Why not minimize the amount of extra sheetmetal, glass, ect and just reinforce the body or create ribs for added support to the existing body? Seems to me that tubing would be more prone to catching on rocks where a nice sheetmetal skin would not, of course it's going to dent but who cares. It's something I havn't real seen tried before an maybe theres a reason for it but I would give it a go sometime.

[Goatman]

Richard i ran into the same problem this year put 37 on the XJ and beat the snot out of it or just keep it a trail rig just bite the bullet and build a full buggy :laugh3:
Narrow the front clip off of the MJ and slap it on

http://images.snapfish.com/3457732723232%7Ffp338%3Enu%3D3257%3E6%3B6%3E58%3B% 3EWSNRCG%3D3233388333%3B64nu0mrj

Hey, all I need is $$$ for good axles and a winch. :)


That's a new buggy, right?

[Goatman]

alloy 35spline strange shafts, true hi9 center section with solid spacer, extra thrust block, 1350 forged yoke. It's a full width 9" housing from a late 70's F-series pickup with a bridge added for link mounts and a truss added as of last night(not pictured). I've got $2200 in the rear axle including disc brakes, it looked to be the cheapest route with the most strength. The front is an HP60, chromo shafts, 35 spline outters, Dedenbear knuckles, homebrew 5 on 5 1/2 hub conversion with half ton chevy brakes. I think this axle combo will suit my needs. I left them full width because I like riding a lot of off camber stuff and like the extra stability(and my wheels are 5" BS). I'll run a few comps. in it but it wasn't really built soley for that, more of an extreme trail buggy.


There is a lot to be said for a spooled 35 spline High9 as a strong, light weight, high clearance rear end at a reasonable cost.

Can you tell me more about how you did the 5 lug D60 outers and brakes?

[Goatman]

I haven't scrolled to the end of the thread, but that's the plan for my MJ. Front HP44 with D60 outers and 35 spline ARB/axles. Not exactly inexpensive though. I've already got the D60 inner C's at a buddy's who is supposedly going to open up the axle stub still welded in them so they'll fit on the D44 tubes. The rear is going to be a HP60 center section with the short tube replaced with a long tube and adapters to mount D60 front spindles for full float. Then add custom double splined 35 spline shafts and some sort of 35 spline locker. That one's not cheap either though. :( These axles will be labor intensive too I suppose. That's my plan for MJ buggy axles though. Jeff

Jeff, you gonna have any money left over for gas?

:) :)

[BIGWOODY]

There is a lot to be said for a spooled 35 spline High9 as a strong, light weight, high clearance rear end at a reasonable cost.

Can you tell me more about how you did the 5 lug D60 outers and brakes?
I'll look around on my computer at home for some more info, but this is what I remember. I turned down the outter "hat" on the fron hub to fit a 5 on 5 1/2" wheel opening. Then turned down the wheel mounting surface to the size of (what I was told was an early CJ rotor, parts on pirate has the right rotors). I then opened up the center of the rotor to fit on the hub. Then redrilled the hub to 5 on 5 1/2" and welded up the old 8 lug holes. Made a custom bracket to use a 1/2 ton chevy caliper ( I still have the pattern and can make more). Presto! converted for a helluva a lot less than the $2200 Dynaripoff wanted to convert it. I think I ended up with about $500 in it totaly done ie: brakes and all. I've run it for close to 2 years and have never had any problems, the only issue I've had with the front end has been knuckles, I cracked two of them and have since become a dealer for Dedenbear, no more isssues. If anyone get serious about doing this I'll help all I can by either info or just ship me your stuff and I'll send it back ready to go..I'd have to do some figuring to see what it would cost though. The CNC time wasn't free.

[BIGWOODY]

Stock Ford knuckle

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/gmanstone/100_0132.jpg


some hub pics




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/gmanstone/DSCF0069.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/gmanstone/DSCF0068.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/gmanstone/DSCF0067.jpg

[xj4moab]

It is i started this one in May I took all of the drivetrain off of the commando.



Hey, all I need is $$$ for good axles and a winch. :)


That's a new buggy, right?

[Goatman]

Stock Ford knuckle

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/gmanstone/100_0132.jpg


What size tires were you running whn the knuckle broke?

I've seen all the new D60 knuckles come out, but never paid much attention to the D60 stuff. Damn, you'd think that D60 1 ton knuckles would hold up. Anything else break with it?

Thanks for the pics of the 5 lug hubs.

[davidt]

If you want to redrill your hubs, summit sells a nice for redrilling the hubs to the right pattern.

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

Jeff, you gonna have any money left over for gas?

:) :)

Heck, I don't even have money to get started hardly. I've got a nice MJ tub, the D60 housing that I'm building into a rear full float, a long side axle tube from a Dodge Dana 60 front for the retube, the Dana 60 stuff from the inner C's out, and a HP D44 housing to put the outers on. So far I've got less than $200 in it. Who knows if I'll ever get anywhere with it, but it's a start. Jeff

[Goatman]

Thanks. Couldn't find it on their site, though.

I would have the machine shop do it, anyway. I don't have a lathe, so when I got the hubs turned down they could redrill it to 5 lug.

[BIGWOODY]

What size tires were you running whn the knuckle broke?
.

38.5 SX's. The Ford knuckles are thin at the top, more so than the Chevys. My first thought was it was caused by the highsteer arm and hydro assist putting to much leverage on the top of the knuckle and they just weren't designed to have a steering arm up there. Then I've seen three others on Ford 60's either crack or break and 2 of them weren't running highsteer, they jusy got bound up in deep rocks. My buddy who runs a chevy 60 of course gave me the "haha Ford stuff is garbage", typical redneck comment and then proceeded to break his chevy one the next weekend. The fact the Crane and Dedenbear both make beefier knuckles for all 60's proves there must be a helluva market for them beyond custom axle building. I became a dealer for Dedenbear and my first order I advertised on a local board that I would cut the price a little for a large order, the response was crazy. I thought maybe one or two people may order them, I ordered 5 sets. All from people who had knuckle carnage with their 60.

[BrettM]

I've seen pictures of people plating the 60 knuckles, supposedly with great success. also, Welderboy on Pirate makes some knuckles.

[chainbrain]

hey goat, man i know i'm new at this and have no significant builds under my belt, but i believe i do have some basic knowledge about most of the principals of building a 4x4. and i know enough that when i blew off work for awhile to be able to read this entire post that, i made the right choice. now as for the actual point of this post as great as some of the ideas are( and believe me i know there are alot of em in here) that in the end we have gotten away from goats actual goal. all i hear man is the dollar signs racking up when i read all this. man what i would do would be to get ahold of surplus military auto parts stores or keep a close eye on the for sale adds in here. i just saw a few days a man selling 3 rockwells 2 rear and 1 front for 900 for all 3. thats the cheapest and strongest you will ever need. hell you could run 44"s on that light ass rig of yours. and with the extreme low range they have you could crawl that thing up a damm wall till it flipped. well i have rambled on long enough here. sorry for taking so damm much time. best of luck goat let me know how it goes. jay

[BrettM]

hey goat, man i know i'm new at this and have no significant builds under my belt, but i believe i do have some basic knowledge about most of the principals of building a 4x4. and i know enough that when i blew off work for awhile to be able to read this entire post that, i made the right choice. now as for the actual point of this post as great as some of the ideas are( and believe me i know there are alot of em in here) that in the end we have gotten away from goats actual goal. all i hear man is the dollar signs racking up when i read all this. man what i would do would be to get ahold of surplus military auto parts stores or keep a close eye on the for sale adds in here. i just saw a few days a man selling 3 rockwells 2 rear and 1 front for 900 for all 3. thats the cheapest and strongest you will ever need. hell you could run 44"s on that light ass rig of yours. and with the extreme low range they have you could crawl that thing up a damm wall till it flipped. well i have rambled on long enough here. sorry for taking so damm much time. best of luck goat let me know how it goes. jay
I was surprised enough to hear richard considering a 14bolt, now you're talking Rockwells?!? hahaaahhaa, that'll be the day..... or will it?

[BIGWOODY]

You ever moved a Rockwell around? Pulled the center section out of one? Yeah you can run 44's with them, you'd be stupid not to. I guess they are fine as long as your goal isn't anywhere near the sub 4k lbs. range. This one weighs just that, two people can barely fit in it and it's a yota powertrain.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a336/STONEAMY/IMG_0001.jpg

[Goatman]

Yeah, Rockwells could probably be done fairly cheaply, and if you're really talking about building a budget buggy you would have to consider them. I would never run them because I have no interest in running 44's, and I like to go fast and jump dunes......not the stuff Rockwells are for.

Besides, I do nearly all of my building by myself. No way I could lug Rockwells around the garage by myself.

[Lupine]

Yes, IRFed, with a product. We're expecting Crash ver.2 on December 28th. And he's no little kicker - I've been feeling rather like one of those large blow-up castles since August. Right now he's bracing himself against my ribs and trying to blast off. I don't know if you're aware, but I was trying to wheel this past summer with Andy and ended up getting into big trouble with my OB/GYN. Apparently kids don't come with their own suspensions. Consequently, I intend to spend most of this next summer out on the trail. I understand you're not supposed to take them wheeling until they can hold their heads upright, but that won't stop me from hiking alongside with Jr. in a Baby Bjorn (God bless those Swedes.) He's going to need to learn how to spot quickly. I don't want him to end up like Dave Taylor.

[Mr.OverKill]

...... He's going to need to learn how to spot quickly. I don't want him to end up like Dave Taylor.

OH DAMN THATS GOTTA STING!! ( and i havent even been on the trail with david and i could feel the heat! )

[FarmerMatt]

OH DAMN THATS GOTTA STING!! ( and i havent even been on the trail with david and i could feel the heat! )

The truth always hurts, especially coming from a woman knocked up by CRASH. If a woman of that little intelligence understands you're a dweeb than you have issues & Taylor does have issues...

[Goatman]

Wow! Should I get this thread back on track?

Nah.....

[tealcherokee]

OUCH......couple of people throwin around some fireballs here......

nice buggys btw

[043500]

Wow! Should I get this thread back on track?

Nah.....
I think you just started this thread to see wha kind of wacky stuff we'd come up with.

[Goatman]

I think you just started this thread to see wha kind of wacky stuff we'd come up with.



And no one has.

I did, sort of. I also used it to think through some options for upcoming projects. Like everyone, I would like to have everything. A super reliable camping trail rig and fun driver, and a super capable light weight buggy.

Maybe someday......

[Roxtar]

I would like to have everything. A super reliable camping trail rig and fun driver, and a super capable light weight buggy.
The funny part is, isn't that why we picked an XJ?
To have it all?
So we built and built and built to be more and more capable of the one aspect.
Then one day we woke up realizing we'd lost the other.

[XJ_ranger]

The funny part is, isn't that why we picked an XJ?
To have it all?
So we built and built and built to be more and more capable of the one aspect.
Then one day we woke up realizing we'd lost the other.

exactly - room for 4, gear for 4, solid front axle...

now i never carry more than me and one passenger, rarely drive my XJ, have swaped a different axle in the front (same amount of effort to swap into any other vehicle)...

hmmm :wierd:

[Goatman]

The funny part is, isn't that why we picked an XJ?
To have it all?
So we built and built and built to be more and more capable of the one aspect.
Then one day we woke up realizing we'd lost the other.

Good point, that is why many of us built XJ's. Mine is still a great trail rig and, if I left the full doors on, it could still be a daily driver. It's become noisier as I keep removing things, but if I carpeted the roof like I've been meaning to it wouldn't be so bad.....the heater and A/C still work. It's a great all around rig, which is exactly what it was designed for.

It's just the lure of a bullet proof rig with no sheet metal to be concerned about and the fun of putting it into spots we wouldn't with our current rig.

[IntrepidXJ]

The funny part is, isn't that why we picked an XJ?
To have it all?
So we built and built and built to be more and more capable of the one aspect.
Then one day we woke up realizing we'd lost the other.

not all. i started with an XJ, cuz that's what I had.

[Lupine]

The truth always hurts, especially coming from a woman knocked up by CRASH. If a woman of that little intelligence understands you're a dweeb than you have issues & Taylor does have issues...

What kind of a dumba$$ insults a woman with at least four different kinds of hormones raging inside her body?

[woody]

I'm diggin this so I can learn & avoid as many traps as possible as I piece mine together.

Seema like a lot of it is just to forget about the cheap part... or at least make wise compromises
<edit> I probably fell into a trap from get-go by getting an oddball 60 for "cheap"

[BIGWOODY]

The funny part is, isn't that why we picked an XJ?
To have it all?
So we built and built and built to be more and more capable of the one aspect.
Then one day we woke up realizing we'd lost the other.

I first picked a Scout in 1991 and proceeded to dump close to 20k in it and it was still a POS. It sat at my house like yard art for 4 months when some other soon to be 4x4 poor guy offered to buy it, just for the 60's and the new 42TSLs on it..the best $3500 I ever made, I lost my ass but that PIT was out of my life and I was officially done with wheeling.A few years later along came a low milage 87 xj wagoneer with wood paneling for $700 it looked and drove like new. I noticed the D44 in the rear and decided to just put a small lift on it and that was it..no more money pits for me. First 3" and 31's then 5.5" and 33's..hmm needs gears now, might as well lock both ends too, "I mean I'm in there anyway" I told my wife, "what's a few hundred more to lock it?". Then 35's and hacking the body, "it's old and I didn't pay much for it, I'm just "trimming" it". After a near roll a cage was a must have, "geez, you want me to get hurt?" I told her. Then 36's, "hmm a good deal on beadlocks probably need those". "Honey, the SXs have a better sidewall than the TSLs, it'll save money in the long run". I started breaking front shafts a lot more than occasionally. The full width axle swap and now I was fully commited.
The XJ ended up crushed and parted out after blowing by the 20k mark in just a few shorts years. Then an MJ went through the same thing except expanding where the XJ left off.
This Oct. I quit fooling myself, after putting my wife through college for the last two years (it only ended up taking her 7 years to get a 4 year degree, her dad passed the tuition off to me after our marriage). I rewarded myself with a large budget buggy build and told my wife, "this is it, I'm done after this, no more mods etc.. when it comes out of the garage, it's officially done, period." She doesn't believe me and that's cool, it gives me room to add rear steer in the fall, after a spring and summer of wheeling.
The XJ is a badass platform, but if you get the bug really bad , a buggy seems to be the only cure, for me anyway.

[xj4moab]

Well said I am at the same point :laugh3:



I first picked a Scout in 1991 and proceeded to dump close to 20k in it and it was still a POS. It sat at my house like yard art for 4 months when some other soon to be 4x4 poor guy offered to buy it, just for the 60's and the new 42TSLs on it..the best $3500 I ever made, I lost my ass but that PIT was out of my life and I was officially done with wheeling.A few years later along came a low milage 87 xj wagoneer with wood paneling for $700 it looked and drove like new. I noticed the D44 in the rear and decided to just put a small lift on it and that was it..no more money pits for me. First 3" and 31's then 5.5" and 33's..hmm needs gears now, might as well lock both ends too, "I mean I'm in there anyway" I told my wife, "what's a few hundred more to lock it?". Then 35's and hacking the body, "it's old and I didn't pay much for it, I'm just "trimming" it". After a near roll a cage was a must have, "geez, you want me to get hurt?" I told her. Then 36's, "hmm a good deal on beadlocks probably need those". "Honey, the SXs have a better sidewall than the TSLs, it'll save money in the long run". I started breaking front shafts a lot more than occasionally. The full width axle swap and now I was fully commited.
The XJ ended up crushed and parted out after blowing by the 20k mark in just a few shorts years. Then an MJ went through the same thing except expanding where the XJ left off.
This Oct. I quit fooling myself, after putting my wife through college for the last two years (it only ended up taking her 7 years to get a 4 year degree, her dad passed the tuition off to me after our marriage). I rewarded myself with a large budget buggy build and told my wife, "this is it, I'm done after this, no more mods etc.. when it comes out of the garage, it's officially done, period." She doesn't believe me and that's cool, it gives me room to add rear steer in the fall, after a spring and summer of wheeling.
The XJ is a badass platform, but if you get the bug really bad , a buggy seems to be the only cure, for me anyway.

[Weasel]

And no one has.

I did, sort of. I also used it to think through some options for upcoming projects. Like everyone, I would like to have everything. A super reliable camping trail rig and fun driver, and a super capable light weight buggy.

Maybe someday......

does it have to look super nice all the time? I would like to keep building on the unibody idea...Lose some of the roof, maybe chop it in a bit, dovetail the rear, maybe front, and instead of adding 1/4" plate all over the place start adding laminates to key areas. Weld up all the seam in the unibody, ect. Still would have sheetmetal to dent but you could have what you want above. Would be more time consuming and require some thought but I think it would be neat.

[Goatman]

Well, here are some examples of XJ buggies. The issue for some of us is that we already have all the good parts on our rigs, just too much sheetmetal. So, where to go from there. Examples......since this is the subject, though these aren't necessarily budget.

Sean, OneTonXJ
http://www.fototime.com/C555AD407B5BF20/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/C32DA1DBAF768B4/standard.jpg


Paul Sinclair
http://www.fototime.com/9C36E7F779B04CC/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/6FA43ABDC4DF95B/standard.jpg

[Goatman]

Mark Hinkley
http://www.fototime.com/96C2A10B6BD8C6E/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/2735A171F0FB994/standard.jpg


Dave Taylor
http://www.fototime.com/D1F1114B16AE9E5/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/CA1FA06422CBFFE/standard.jpg

[Goatman]

Led Lancos
http://www.fototime.com/845F7BCDF13C759/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/BA6B423A00602D6/standard.jpg


FarmerMatt
http://www.fototime.com/397689347E8299E/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/D9DCE05B0B750F2/standard.jpg

[BIGWOODY]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/gmanstone/f3a067f2.jpg


What's that in the background?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/gmanstone/100_0943.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/gmanstone/100_12502.jpg

[Joe]

Richard,

Talk to Robert I think one of his friends had a buggy for sale or even trade. I don't really remember the facts, but give him a call.

[Dirk Pitt]

not all. i started with an XJ, cuz that's what I had.

x2

[Roxtar]

proceeded to dump close to 20k in it...
a guy offered to buy it...
$3500
I think one of his friends had a buggy for sale or even trade. I don't really remember the facts, but give him a call.Found it!
The only real way to get a good buggy for cheap.
BUY ONE.
Let someone else spend the big $ to build it and then buy it for .10 on the buck. :firedevil

For example:
http://www.fototime.com/845F7BCDF13C759/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/BA6B423A00602D6/standard.jpg

[BIGWOODY]

Found it!
The only real way to get a good buggy for cheap.
BUY ONE.


Just be able to look at it first, I've had freinds buy some real TURDS off of ebay. I totaly agree this is the true way to buy one, just like race cars, boats, etc... My problem was Twisted Customs had the buggy I wanted turn key, they just wanted 55k for it, So I copied everything on it and will have about 30k in it.

[Goatman]

Just be able to look at it first, I've had freinds buy some real TURDS off of ebay. I totaly agree this is the true way to buy one, just like race cars, boats, etc... My problem was Twisted Customs had the buggy I wanted turn key, they just wanted 55k for it, So I copied everything on it and will have about 30k in it.

I'm assuming that includes the money you had in the axles you already had? Or did you start fresh?

I don't have that kind of money laying around. I have close to $30k (+/-) in my current rig, but it was spent over 10 years.

The buggy Robt was probably referring to was Matt Brocks. He sold it 4-6 months ago, and was trying to get $10k out of it. Some old school tech on it, non-triangulated four links with panhard bar f/r, quarter eliptics f/r. Axles were good, HP44 front and rear steer D60, but had stock axles. 4.0L with AW4 and stock gearing NP231. Ran on 38.5 TSL radials.

[BIGWOODY]

I'm assuming that includes the money you had in the axles you already had? Or did you start fresh?
.

I used my hp60 from the MJ that I had about $4500 in, the Atlas which I had a little over $2k in, aluminum TR beadlocks had about a grand in, 35spline axles from my 9".....everything else is new.

[Paul S]

Richard,
Keep your drive train for the 37's with the 37's... I ask you, what would be the point in keeping the terra 60 in a trail rig with 35's? Put the 44 back in big bird & build up a stout 30 for the front. Swap all your drive train into the buggy including your 4:1 231 case. Arguably, I've got a little more giddyup in my stroker than yours & I've never broken a rear 31 spline 9" shaft or my still stock, never split 135000 mile transfer case. The only thing my JD might have strength wise over your would be the front end, but we both know how stout your built 30 was. Hell, you break more with your 44 than you did with your 30... I've even got a front housing I'll donate for the cause. Truss it up, throw in some alloys / 760's & forget about it. It would be a weekend deal to swap in the drive train & than you'll be able to start mocking up the new chasis. Wheeling down time would be minimal.

Matt

This seems like the only way to go.
I think you're going to want HP's front & rear on the buggy, & I doubt that you'd be happy with full widths.

I know a one stop shop for a Warn 9000, Atlas 3.8, CTM's, Woods front driveshaft & D30 5.5" hub conversion with several Warn stubs. Pretty sure you know the place, & I doubt that you could turn down the price.

Paul

[Roxtar]

I know a one stop shop for a Warn 9000, Atlas 3.8, CTM's, Woods front driveshaft & D30 5.5" hub conversion with several Warn stubs. Pretty sure you know the place, & I doubt that you could turn down the price.

Paul$?

[Paul S]

$?

A friend of ours has all this junk. He's not really looking to sell it, but he would gladly give it too Richard just to see him in a buggy.
He's one of those guys that will do anything to bring his friends to the dark side :laugh3:

Paul

[Roxtar]

A friend of ours has all this junk. He's not really looking to sell it, but he would gladly give it too Richard just to see him in a buggy.
He's one of those guys that will do anything to bring his friends to the dark side :laugh3:

PaulI'd like to be his friend. :kissyou: :wave1: :cheers: :loveu: :party: :angel: :clap:

[4ward]

Well, I think I may be honored that you put up pics of my junk. The problem is, it never truly made it to buggy status. It did make its way to a different life though.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/lugie/000_0049.jpg

People can call their junk buggies, but if it started life with a title- it never will be. Yes, there are exceptions (I kept the vin plate off the last 3 jeeps I've taken to the scrapyard)

Greg, Pete and I watched the evolution buggy at the badlands for toys for tots a couple weeks ago. The guy didn't know how to drive. Pete showed him how to do the obstacle though.

I've been dreaming up what I want to build. Even have most of the parts to build something in a few different configurations. I just don't know if I want my next rock star to be a buggy or a jeep. Mine was half of each and as such never really did anything exceptionally well. The next one will be all of one or the other not a mixture of the 2.

[Mr.OverKill]

Well, I think I may be honored that you put up pics of my junk. The problem is, it never truly made it to buggy status. It did make its way to a different life though.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/lugie/000_0049.jpg

how much did the scrap yard give you for that? and why did you scrap it? inquireing minds want to know. ( next time you throw away a perfictly good bugy let me know )

[Goatman]

This seems like the only way to go.
I think you're going to want HP's front & rear on the buggy, & I doubt that you'd be happy with full widths.

I know a one stop shop for a Warn 9000, Atlas 3.8, CTM's, Woods front driveshaft & D30 5.5" hub conversion with several Warn stubs. Pretty sure you know the place, & I doubt that you could turn down the price.

Paul

We've already talked about the motor, trans, and Atlas. A good buy, but I just don't know about swapping the MJ over to the later model motor. I need a used car lot so I can run it on a dealer plate and not worry about smogging it. Then........

:D

[Mr.OverKill]

... I need a used car lot so I can run it on a dealer plate and not worry about smogging it. Then........

:Dwhen you get that lot let me know and i will be a silent partner ( so i can run my rig on the street too ):laugh3:

[Goatman]

I've been dreaming up what I want to build. Even have most of the parts to build something in a few different configurations. I just don't know if I want my next rock star to be a buggy or a jeep. Mine was half of each and as such never really did anything exceptionally well. The next one will be all of one or the other not a mixture of the 2.

See, you're like me. We need two different rigs. I'm not into just hardcore trails, or just into scenic camping runs, and I want to play in the snow and the sand. Rather than continuing to compromise the versatility of my current rig, I need to tune it back a little and build a dedicated crawler.

So, I have 5.13's in the XJ. If I go back to 35's for it I want 4.88's because the stroker has plenty of power and the 5.13's are too low. I think with a buggy and automatic I wouldn't need the 4 to 1, so would go with 5.89's and stock t-case which should work well. So, what to do with my axles that have 5.13's in them? I guess the answer is to leave the XJ with the 37's, and start over with new axles for the MJ, which would be Hi9 spooled in the rear, and probably a D44/60 hybrid in the front, or Hi9 if I came up with a little more dough.

So, what happened to the budget idea? Better start saving..... :)




Oh, but wait, I want to buy a boat.

[Mr.OverKill]

GOD, i hate the i wants! they are killing me too, boat, jet, skis, trail rig, desert bike...:laugh3:

[4ward]

I don't know how much I got for it at the scrapyard, I took in my entire trailer full and my flatbed (that was pulling the trailer) was full also. I scrapped it because I didn't want to see anybody else wheel what I'd spent SO MANY hours and dollars on. I pulled everything that was worth something off.

Richard, is the mj in nice shape? If so, sell it on your lot. Take that money and go buy your tube and some drivetrain. Then you can build your buggy. I don't think I'd detune your current jeep because I think it still is a very nice dual purpose rig.

Get started now, so I can see what you come up with at BOTW :laugh3:

Oh yeah, you can't go 5.89's in a hp44.

[Roxtar]

People can call their junk buggies, but if it started life with a title- it never will be. Yes, there are exceptions (I kept the vin plate off the last 3 jeeps I've taken to the scrapyard) I concur.
A buggy is built from the ground up.
All others are just highly modified vehicles.

[tealcherokee]

i dont completly agree with that, if you take an xj and end up only keeping the fenders, its still a buggy

[LBEXJ]

"What is a Buggy" sounds like another good thread I once read! :laugh3:

Any comments as to what contributes the most forces that result in drivetrain breakage, the weight of the vehicle, or the weight/size of the tires?

Les

[4ward]

Any comments as to what contributes the most forces that result in drivetrain breakage, the weight of the vehicle, or the weight/size of the tires?

Les

Yes

[LBEXJ]

Yes Thanks One Ton ... let me re-phrase ... Does the weight of the vehicle contribute more or less to drivetrain breakage than the size/weight of the tires?

I'm sure it has a lot of bearing on how beefy a driveline needs to be. Where I'm going with this question is ... can considerable savings be had in building a driveline if a chassis could be built very light but strong? There is a lot of weight in an XJ/MJ chassis that's probably not necessary in a Buggy.

I know absolutely nothing about Buggy's. But it seems that most are built with very heavy axles. Are these really necessary for a relatively light tube chassis? Can some actually hinder their performance because the axles themselve are so heavy?

Les

[Ramsey]

heavy axles + light body= very low cog

maybe, i dont know a thing either

[FarmerMatt]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/lugie/000_0049.jpg


That is exactly where that POS belongs...

[Goatman]

Thanks One Ton ... let me re-phrase ... Does the weight of the vehicle contribute more or less to drivetrain breakage than the size/weight of the tires?

I'm sure it has a lot of bearing on how beefy a driveline needs to be. Where I'm going with this question is ... can considerable savings be had in building a driveline if a chassis could be built very light but strong? There is a lot of weight in an XJ/MJ chassis that's probably not necessary in a Buggy.

I know absolutely nothing about Buggy's. But it seems that most are built with very heavy axles. Are these really necessary for a relatively light tube chassis? Can some actually hinder their performance because the axles themselve are so heavy?

Les

Axle breakage happens from a number of situations.....most of the time it's not just spinning the tires, where vehicle weight would make a big difference. A high percentage of axle breakage occurs when the tires get in some sort of bind, like in an undercut, down in a big hole, wedged between a couple of rocks, or bouncing on a big ledge. The resistance forces applied directly to the tire is what contributes most to the breakage, and the weight of the rig is secondary.

So, does vehicle weight make a difference in axle breakage? Yes it does, but not to the degree that you would think it does. Many times an axle could break regardless of the weight of the rig.

[LBEXJ]

Axle breakage happens from a number of situations.....most of the time it's not just spinning the tires, where vehicle weight would make a big difference. A high percentage of axle breakage occurs when the tires get in some sort of bind, like in an undercut, down in a big hole, wedged between a couple of rocks, or bouncing on a big ledge. The resistance forces applied directly to the tire is what contributes most to the breakage, and the weight of the rig is secondary.

So, does vehicle weight make a difference in axle breakage? Yes it does, but not to the degree that you would think it does. Many times an axle could break regardless of the weight of the rig. Thanks Goat ... I appreciate the info. Most of us (me included) that read and try to learn from these threads do not have enough "real" experience to completely understand why some things are built the way they are. I guess I never outgrew the "why syndrome". Thanks again ...

Les

[tealcherokee]

asking "why?" is always a good thing..... when you dont know something, asking why will clear it up, even if you do know somthing, and someone is talking out their a$$, instead of screaming bull$hit, just ask them why, see what they say, if they say anything.....

[4ward]

You've got to remember also that horsepower has a huge roll in drivetrain breakage. A Sammi's birf is half the size of a toy birf, but they keep their birfs together because they only have 36 lil ponies under the hood.

So, Richard- how much are you selling that mj for??? :wave:

Be one with the tube :lecture:

[Goatman]

You've got to remember also that horsepower has a huge roll in drivetrain breakage. A Sammi's birf is half the size of a toy birf, but they keep their birfs together because they only have 36 lil ponies under the hood.

So, Richard- how much are you selling that mj for??? :wave:

Be one with the tube :lecture:

Very true. Horsepower and gearing also are big contributors to component breakage. When the applied torque is more than the torque capacity of the part, something has to give. If the tire can spin, fine, but if it can't then something is going to break. Out on the trail we constantly watch for what we call wedgies....when the tire is bound and has little chance of turning.

I have two MJ's, one is real nice, a SB 2wd 4.0 auto, which I would hate to cut up. I'd like to just keep it as a driver, but if I ever built another rig I wouldn't need it as a driver. The other one is a junker, SB 4 sp 4 cyl with a blown headgasket. If I decided to build the junker, I'd sell the nice one to get money for the project. I have a spare 4.0, and an AW4 and 231. What's tempting is Garry would sell me the 4.0/999/Atlas out of his junked TJ at a good price. That would be a great combo for a quasi-buggy project, except for having to deal with smogging it. In a pure buggy, it would be perfect.

One thing for sure. I'm really more interested in building a chopped down MJ than I am in building a full out buggy. Some good points have been made here, and I understand the logic of going the full buggy route, but that's not what I want. Whatever I have, it has to be legal to drive on the street. We go too many places where we have to travel on roads to get to good trails, and my tow rig has the camper on it, so I won't be towing a rig to a trailhead. That's an issue of the full buggy concept that I haven't been able to get past.

[davidt]

Full on buggies are cool, but truggies are where the action is really at in my opinion. I love being able to close up my truck in the winter time and get the heat going, I also like being able to have a good windshield with wipers. My vote is keep the good running mj and start with that. It is always nice to start with something that you know works well, plus you don't have to mess with wiring and mounting the engine (a big task for anyone). Why go with the 999 when you can have the highly reliable and easy to wire (with bretts shifter). Just a thought...

[Roxtar]

Thanks One Ton ... let me re-phrase ... Does the weight of the vehicle contribute more or less to drivetrain breakage than the size/weight of the tires?
LesI'd have to say it's more dependant on the weight of the right foot.

[LBEXJ]

I'd have to say it's more dependant on the weight of the right foot. I don't think that having a scrawny old right foot has kept me from breaking ... maybe it's just not scrawny enough.

Les

[Gary E]

I dunno if this it totally off your path here but I remember reading a pirate thread on the budget wheeler and the consensus was a military GMC with the 60 and 14 bolt w/ a detroit.

I think I am done with my xj, I think I will just keep repairing stuff as it breaks and keep it decent for the sieras and what not, the hammers and BOTW has really beat that poor thing to snot.

I want a buggy for the harder stuff I keep coming up with plans but each path gets killed by something or another. Pre made frame buggy is too expensive, but would be nice. Narrowing axles and installing good stuff is too much time and money. Making my own frame would be too much time and steel is not cheap.

Running a military gmc truck frame with minimal sheet metal and some tube work is more likely the route I would go. probably really hokey like, full width welded front v8 and an auto. maybe just 37s so I could just hammer down and throttle it more.

Any way you approach it, its all cubic dollars and time. Matt has it figured out pretty good with the JD and CAT, I imagine he would of rather ditched the xj unibody and done bigger axles but he got a great deal on the parts and its tough to want to rework all the motor mounts, dash, wiring harness etc

Gosh sorry about all the rambling

Its just a huge project any way you look at it.

I wimped out and went a diffrent path :)

I just picked up a 53 f-100 with a great body (and little else) I have a free volare IFS front end lined up. I plan on a $800 mark vii donor car for the 5.0, aod and rearend. The motor will be stock I plan on making a nice driver, I will do the paint and body. I plan on having right around 5k into it. Oh and you will definatly like the color I have picked for it :) I am positive on the Yellow but want flames, hmm maybe orange flames :)

[Jes]

Running a military gmc truck frame with minimal sheet metal and some tube work is more likely the route I would go. probably really hokey like, full width welded front v8 and an auto. maybe just 37s so I could just hammer down and throttle it more.



Start growing that mullett. ;)

[Goatman]

Gary, here's a couple of pics of a friend who made a buggy from a fullsize Bronco. Motor, trans and t-case are stock, and he used the fullwidth front HPD44 and rear 9", but I think he used a Currie HP9 center section.

Pics are on Fistfull of Dollars in Parker.
http://fototime.com/DF49623F07CD060/standard.jpg
http://fototime.com/5A52B5566265F45/standard.jpg

[Jes]

That line is fun!

[Gary E]

Start growing that mullett. ;)

:laugh3: You know it Ya all :) know I could never do it. I would get stuck right on the gmc/bowtie thing :)

That is a good looking buggy Richard, I am a big fan of the donor concept, much cheaper.

I was pretty interested in the whole dodge late model 60 stuff it would pretty much bolt into my front suspension run hummer rims with stock BS (no locking hubs to stick out) I am the last CAD fan, but the 30 spline inners, weight and the cost (not much cheaper than a real 60) shot that one down pretty much.

I think I will just get this and drive over anything in the way and pull down the mountain with the big old winch if it got in the way.
big ole ford (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2F%2Fsearch%2 Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D4599701220%26 fvi%3D1&item=4599701220)

[Goatman]

I think I will just get this and drive over anything in the way and pull down the mountain with the big old winch if it got in the way.
big ole ford (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2F%2Fsearch%2 Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D4599701220%26 fvi%3D1&item=4599701220)

Pismo tow truck.


:)

[BrettM]

If I were to ever build a trailered buggy I would do a front wheel drive engine/transaxle (weld the transaxle diff) with the CV shafts running as drivelines to Toyota axles with 37s, tube chassis, links and airshocks. very cheap, very light, great visibility. the downsides of no high range and not much room for gear are compensated for in your current rig.

i like buggys like this:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/TeenyCAR/Wheeling%20pics/PICT0167.jpg
more pics here: http://photobucket.com/albums/c99/TeenyCAR/Wheeling%20pics/?

[CRASH]

I find it funny that a guy that PAID SOMEONE to change his 44 balljoints because he didn't have time to do it himself is contemplating a buggy build.

We should see this rig on the trails in about 2015 or so.

[Goatman]

Hey, I paid for them to be done, and then wore them out in less than 6 months. The first and third time I did them myself.

Still.....you're probably right.

:)

[BIGWOODY]

ya know king pins don't do that.... :laugh3:

[Goatman]

Oh, BTW, I wrote down one of my goals for 2006. You know, you have a much higher likelyhood of achieving a goal if you write it down.

High9/D60 hybrid front axle with 5 lug hubs and 1/2 ton brakes.......

[CRASH]

Oh, BTW, I wrote down one of my goals for 2006. You know, you have a much higher likelyhood of achieving a goal if you write it down.

High9/D60 hybrid front axle with 5 lug hubs and 1/2 ton brakes.......


Congratulations, you are one axle closer to a buggy.

I wrote down "fix the stereo in the XJ".

We'll see who wins.

[Lincoln]

Congratulations, you are one axle closer to a buggy.

I wrote down "fix the stereo in the XJ".

We'll see who wins.

I bet he will. Just get out the credit card. :D

[Goatman]

I bet he will. Just get out the credit card. :D

What's Currie's number?









:D




Nope, gotta start building up the Jeep fund.

[Mr.OverKill]

I bet he will. Just get out the credit card. :D
i bet on GOATMAN! (crash has a new baby = no mo $$$ ):laugh3:

[xj4moab]

I was looking around pirate found these for ya Goat
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/gmanstone/mvc-004s_148.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/magoo117/IMG_0471.jpg

[motorman]

Red MJ climbing the wall was owned by Greg Stone (Bigwoody) out of Greensburo, NC. He rolled it several times and doesn't have it anymore. Don't know if he sold it or parted it out. He started out with a 44 in the front and went to a 60 and did several other "upgrades" . Not sure how much of a budget vehicle it ended up being.

[David Taylor]

I predict we will see a buggy project starting soon from Goatman. He won't
be able to sit and watch while the rest of us take some stupid lines.

[Lincoln]

I predict we will see a buggy project starting soon from Goatman. He won't
be able to sit and watch while the rest of us take some stupid lines.

He's having Dave, Paul, and Matt envy. So sad, so so sad.

[Captain Ron]

He's having Dave, Paul, and Matt envy. So sad, so so sad.

Maybe....

I'm waiting to see how something can be done with nothing.

Should be some great tech there. :D

--ron

[GSequoia]

Budget

Buggy

Both start with a B.

Similarities end there.

[Mr.OverKill]

Budget

Buggy

Both start with a B.

Similarities end there.

i think you forgot the U:exclamati :exclamati :lecture:

other than that,:laugh3: you are correct sir :laugh3:

[Paul S]

I predict we will see a buggy project starting soon from Goatman. He won't
be able to sit and watch while the rest of us take some stupid lines.

BTW, did I tell you that I volunteered you, Matt & myself for a weekend of buggy building in Bakersfield?

Set a date Richard, post season of course :)

Paul

[David Taylor]

BTW, did I tell you that I volunteered you, Matt & myself for a weekend of buggy building in Bakersfield?

Set a date Richard, post season of course :)

Paul

With what we all know now ,I think we could bang most of a cage out in a weekend.

[XJJPR]

Don't forget the JB weld!

Wish I could be there for moral support! Maybe I'll just phone it in. Let me know when! :D


hinkley

[Mr.OverKill]

BTW, did I tell you that I volunteered you, Matt & myself for a weekend of buggy building in Bakersfield?

Set a date Richard, post season of course :)

Paul since it involves welding i would like to volenteer as well, let me know when and i will see if its doable:wave:

[Goatman]

Don't forget the JB weld!

Wish I could be there for moral support! Maybe I'll just phone it in. Let me know when! :D


hinkley

I'll bring the conference room speaker phone from work and set it up in the garage.......we (lovingly :)) refer to it as "boss in a box", since it's how our owner with ailing health sits in on our meetings. Hinkley would fit right in. :D

[BIGWOODY]

More expense into the "budget"..lol ..back from powder coating..no need to halfstep..

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d21/gmanstone1/100_24301.jpg

[xj4moab]

That looks really good but how can you justify the cost? it has been in the back of my mind to do on mine

[BIGWOODY]

That looks really good but how can you justify the cost? it has been in the back of my mind to do on mine
At first 20k was my budget....Total including the price of parts I already had I'm closing in on the 30k mark quickly. I've driven used cars, worked my ass off building my business for the last 10 years, got my wife out of college for the 2nd time last year and have two payments left on my business until I owe nothing on it. This was my reward for always having stuff that was "good enough" while making sacrifices to keep up with my responsibilities. I am building our "dream" house next year and starting a family (thank god my wife is younger than I) so this is it, my last hoorah. The cost of the powder coating wasn't bad (relatively speaking) $500 for the chassis and all suspension parts, I just wasn't going to half ass it after dumping all that time and money into it.

[Ghost]

More expense into the "budget"..lol ..back from powder coating..no need to halfstep..

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d21/gmanstone1/100_24301.jpg

Damn Greg you left out the seating for the family! You'll have to give me that one and build another one in a few years! LOL!

[xj4moab]

Well said :laugh3:



At first 20k was my budget....Total including the price of parts I already had I'm closing in on the 30k mark quickly. I've driven used cars, worked my ass off building my business for the last 10 years, got my wife out of college for the 2nd time last year and have two payments left on my business until I owe nothing on it. This was my reward for always having stuff that was "good enough" while making sacrifices to keep up with my responsibilities. I am building our "dream" house next year and starting a family (thank god my wife is younger than I) so this is it, my last hoorah. The cost of the powder coating wasn't bad (relatively speaking) $500 for the chassis and all suspension parts, I just wasn't going to half ass it after dumping all that time and money into it.

[xj4moab]

Well Richard did you start yet here is a pic of mine not done yet but it is getting there



http://images.snapfish.com/345%3C%3A%3C854%7Ffp335%3Enu%3D3257%3E6%3B6%3E58%3 B%3EWSNRCG%3D323352%3A%3B39895nu0mrj

[Goatman]

Nope, haven't started yet. I feel like a woman as I keep changing my mind about things. :)

I do have to keep to the budget theme, since funds will be limited. I have so much into my current rig, easily 30k+ over the last 10 years, that I can't justify a big expense on another rig, even if I had it.

The basic plan as it looks now (if I don't change my mind again) is to build using a '93 XJ that I've found for about $800. It's all there mechanically, auto with a 231 and a basic lift, and the back has already been cut off. I found a GM D60 that I can get, and a HP44 center section, and would like to build a hybrid 60 using a 35 spline ARB in the D44 center section. For the rear I'll swap the Tera60 from my rig into the buggy, and I already have an XJ D44 that I'll put a 33 spline Super 44 kit into for my current rig. I still have a set of 35" MT/R's that I'll put back on the yellow Jeep, and put the 37's and beadlocks on the buggy. The front hybrid 60 will get 5 lug hubs and 1/2 ton brakes so the 15" aluminum rims will fit. Gears will be the 5.13's. I won't have dough for a t-case right away, so I'll see how the light weight and 5.13's work with the auto and stock t-case gearing.

There won't be much left of the XJ. Narrowed in front, no windshield, narrowed on the bottom, no floor behind the two seats. The only problem is that a plan is formulating but I don't have the money yet.........only a minor problem. :)

Hey Bryan and bigwoody, what size and type of tubing did you guys use?

[xj4moab]

It sounds like you have the plan down I used 1.5" DOM and a few small sections are 1" HREW

[Goatman]

It sounds like you have the plan down I used 1.5" DOM and a few small sections are 1" HREW

What did you use for springs and shocks?

[xj4moab]

I am running 2.5" Fox air shocks 14" front 16" rear. I was going to run Bilstein 9100 coilovers but a local comp buggy shop talked me into air shocks not to sure about them yet, Led said he loved his so we'll see how they do. They are cheap at only 200 a whack i could barely get the coils and spring kit for the bilstein's



What did you use for springs and shocks?

[BIGWOODY]

An end is nearing in both the project and the funding..lol

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d21/gmanstone1/DSCF0210.jpg

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

Nope, haven't started yet. I feel like a woman as I keep changing my mind about things. :)

I do have to keep to the budget theme, since funds will be limited. I have so much into my current rig, easily 30k+ over the last 10 years, that I can't justify a big expense on another rig, even if I had it.

The basic plan as it looks now (if I don't change my mind again) is to build using a '93 XJ that I've found for about $800. It's all there mechanically, auto with a 231 and a basic lift, and the back has already been cut off. I found a GM D60 that I can get, and a HP44 center section, and would like to build a hybrid 60 using a 35 spline ARB in the D44 center section. For the rear I'll swap the Tera60 from my rig into the buggy, and I already have an XJ D44 that I'll put a 33 spline Super 44 kit into for my current rig. I still have a set of 35" MT/R's that I'll put back on the yellow Jeep, and put the 37's and beadlocks on the buggy. The front hybrid 60 will get 5 lug hubs and 1/2 ton brakes so the 15" aluminum rims will fit. Gears will be the 5.13's. I won't have dough for a t-case right away, so I'll see how the light weight and 5.13's work with the auto and stock t-case gearing.

There won't be much left of the XJ. Narrowed in front, no windshield, narrowed on the bottom, no floor behind the two seats. The only problem is that a plan is formulating but I don't have the money yet.........only a minor problem. :)

Hey Bryan and bigwoody, what size and type of tubing did you guys use?



Not a bad plan, but what happened to the MJ thing? Isn't this rig going to be a bit cold and wet when it rains in Arizona? :) Jeff

[Roxtar]

Not a bad plan, but what happened to the MJ thing? Isn't this rig going to be a bit cold and wet when it rains in Arizona? :) JeffComon Jeff, it never rains in Arizona.

[Goatman]

Not a bad plan, but what happened to the MJ thing? Isn't this rig going to be a bit cold and wet when it rains in Arizona? :) Jeff

I guess if you're going to do it, you might as well do it all the way. There's no sense cutting down a perfectly good MJ if the top is going to come off, no difference then so I might as well cut down a cheap XJ and sell the MJ for some build money.

I don't want to build a tube chassis from scratch, just to save the time and effort to mount pedals, gauges, run brake lines, etc. Won't be much left of the XJ, though.

Yes, it will be cold and wet. Oh well. :D

[Goatman]

An end is nearing in both the project and the funding..lol

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d21/gmanstone1/DSCF0210.jpg


What wheelbase did you and Bryan go with?

[Ghost]

An end is nearing in both the project and the funding..lol

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d21/gmanstone1/DSCF0210.jpg

Let me knwo when you test it at Uwharrie.... I got's to see that thing in action.... especially since you will need a new one for the "family" lmao... :wave:

[xj4moab]

What wheelbase did you and Bryan go with?

I am at 105"
I never did think about all of the little things you have to do when you build a car from the ground up next time i might start with a jeep agian :mad:

http://images.snapfish.com/346325%3B63%7Ffp335%3Enu%3D3257%3E6%3B6%3E58%3B%3E WSNRCG%3D323352%3A%3B476%3A%3Bnu0mrj


http://images.snapfish.com/346325%3B63%7Ffp335%3Enu%3D3257%3E6%3B6%3E58%3B%3E WSNRCG%3D323352%3B58%3A3%3B9nu0mrj

[offroadman83]

That might be the sweetest looking buggy I have seen!! Very sweet lines------------Kyle

[Goatman]

I am at 105"
I never did think about all of the little things you have to do when you build a car from the ground up next time i might start with a jeep agian :mad:


Bryan, that's looking real good. You and Greg are building very nice rigs. Yeah, the time it's going to take is already bad enough. I'll live with a little extra weight to have the steering, brake lines, pedals, controls, gauges, wiring, linkage, mounts, seats, etc. already there.

I'm going to go with 105" wheelbase, sounds about the best to me. I have Racerunner coilovers already for the front, and will probably go with the air shocks in the rear. Are you going to put a sway bar in the rear?

[myjeepsbigger]

There won't be much left of the XJ. Narrowed in front, no windshield, narrowed on the bottom, no floor behind the two seats. The only problem is that a plan is formulating but I don't have the money yet.........only a minor problem. :)



Working on a similar set up, too....Plan is 4-link/coils. Rear will have 'fenders' because of all the muddy trails we run around here. Lot's of tube left to bend up, but this should give you a general idea. W.B. should be right at 100".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/myjeepsbigger/Buggy%20build/DSC02155.jpg

Ignore the scrap piece in front of the wheel opening...just tacked there to check an angle.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/myjeepsbigger/Buggy%20build/DSC02152.jpg

[xj4moab]

That was the plan to run coilovers in front because i had a set of Bilstein 9100's but they were 16" and i needed 14" so i wouldn't have to run a big shock hoop i am sure it will work the way i have it if i dont like it just have to change it

I am going to run a sway bar in the rear and a Small ATV winch i like the idea of being able to lower the whole thing down.

I'm going to go with 105" wheelbase, sounds about the best to me. I have Racerunner coilovers already for the front, and will probably go with the air shocks in the rear. Are you going to put a sway bar in the rear?

[35xj]

Budget Buggy building...
about a year ago, i decided the xj was not going to do it any more for me and that a buggy was needed. Original plan was to transplant everything from the 90 xj (4.0,ax15 300 w/4;1,waggy 44 front,yota rear) and build a chassis on a YJ frame.
Well, we all know how it goes. ended up with a Warmed up 95 4.0, New 999 tranny, same 300, and same axles. full Hydro steering. Built a cage around it. used the existing Rusty's 6" front coils, stock tj rears, 4 links at both ends. here it is
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/35xj/DPG11406040.jpg
Been really happy with this thing. used a rear mounted stock XJ rad with 2 factory electric fans, never gets hot! Now i've gegun to build a full bodied rig again.
Richard, i'd say, scrap the 231 (300 is not that expensive, even flipped, and front digs are more usefull than i'd ever thought!)
Hope this helps. Good luck

[Mr.OverKill]

how about an up date on the buggy thoughts Goatman any new ideas?

[Puma297]

.....

now if only you could keep it on all 4's. :D

[BIGWOODY]

What wheelbase did you and Bryan go with?

Mine is 107" with 39's. Took it on its first drive this past weekend, holy shizzel...The massaged LS1 has more than enough power. On a full throttle take of the Kralwers turned over once or so and then picked the drivers side front weel about 6" off the ground ( in 2wd). Over 400hp is gonna be nice for the east coast wheeling...


http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/gmanstone2/000_0057.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/gmanstone2/100_3001.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/gmanstone2/1.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/gmanstone2/100_3000.jpg

[FarmerMatt]

Very, Very, Very clean. Thing of beauty...

[xj4moab]

wow i hope mine will come out half as good

[BrettM]

beautiful.

if you woulda done the suspension as 3 link w/ panhard you could counteract that torque lean from the motor....

[Kaczman]

beautiful.

if you woulda done the suspension as 3 link w/ panhard you could counteract that torque lean from the motor....

Panhard bars are for the meek.

Sweet buggy.

-Jon

[Goatman]

how about an up date on the buggy thoughts Goatman any new ideas?

Yeah, I have some new ideas. I had so much fun bombing around Baja and Truckhaven that I'm going to finish out my yellow rig with bad boy shocks and air bumps, and maybe even link the rear, before I start on a buggy. I want to be able to pre-run, so I've decided not to water down my current rig. Money is tight in the next year to complete a buggy project, but I can scrape enough together to trick out the suspension on the current rig. Air bumps are definite in the rear. Shocks are still open, but the SAW coilovers I have sitting around could finally find their way onto the rig. The front will either get air bumbs to go with the 7100's, or I'll switch to bypass shocks. I need more info on the bypasses. The rear needs some re-working to allow more uptravel with the 37's, and I could use a few more inches of wheelbase to fit the air bumps and whatever shocks I end up with. Lot's of options with the rear.

I've decided I have as much fun running fast through the desert as I do rock crawling, so I'm not quite ready yet to build a dedicated crawler. If I decided to build a buggy that could also be a pre-runner, then there are slightly different build perameters that I'm not ready to deal with yet. As some of you know, I can change my mind like a woman. Right now, I want to do some desert running to see how much I like it, and I mean more than hauling ass back and forth to the trail.

We'll see....... :)

[BrettM]

I've decided I have as much fun running fast through the desert as I do rock crawling

I think most of us would agree, it just costs so much more.

[Capt. Nemo]

I think most of us would agree, it just costs so much more.

...and then we would have to learn how to weld for real :looney:

[Roxtar]

...and then we would have to learn how to weld for real :looney:2X
I'm a lot more trusting at 2 mph.

[CRASH]

I've decided I have as much fun running fast through the desert as I do rock crawling, so I'm not quite ready yet to build a dedicated crawler.



Does this mean you will finally get rid of the short control arms? They will be a huge limiting factor once you get to the 14" travel level.

Center limit straps and desert running don't play well together........ :D

[Goatman]

Does this mean you will finally get rid of the short control arms? They will be a huge limiting factor once you get to the 14" travel level.

Center limit straps and desert running don't play well together........ :D

Thought about that, but I can live with 12" of travel in the front if I can get a bunch in the back. No way I'm redesigning the front suspension. Mine works very well with 12". :)

I already decided I'm putting limit straps on the ends. BTW, did you guys notice that short body 7100's don't have 12" of travel, they only have 11.5". I notice that .5". Also, if I go to a 14" travel shock, I can set it up so I have an inch of bump travel left at the fullest stuff giving me 13" of usable travel which would be just right for my setup. One problem though, no one makes a short body bypass shock........

[CRASH]

Thought about that, but I can live with 12" of travel in the front if I can get a bunch in the back. No way I'm redesigning the front suspension. Mine works very well with 12". :)

I already decided I'm putting limit straps on the ends. BTW, did you guys notice that short body 7100's don't have 12" of travel, they only have 11.5". I notice that .5". Also, if I go to a 14" travel shock, I can set it up so I have an inch of bump travel left at the fullest stuff giving me 13" of usable travel which would be just right for my setup. One problem though, no one makes a short body bypass shock........


There is an internal bump on 7100's that compresses that last half-inch. I could use another inch of compression travel, so I'll probably revalve the 275/78's and move them to the back, then put 14's up front with 275/78. I need to move the mount up under the hood to do the 14's, though, and that has to happen in conjunction with the under hood cage extension, which doesn't look like it's going to happen this winter. :D Too close to wheeling season to mess around too much more. Just want to button up the front suspension/Atlas install, tie the cage to the firewall, and go wheeling. :)