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Wheel alignment now steering wheel up side down

MaXJohnson said:
adjusting the draglink doesn't raise or lower the pitman arm.

get in the game.
Click to expand...

It moves it side to side, which changes the angle enough to affect toe. Wise up and quit spouting BS.
 
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Take what? It's a documented fact. Next time one of you master backyard wrenchers goes in for an alignment, have the tech try it and show you the results.
 
JJacobs said:
Take what? It's a documented fact. Next time one of you master backyard wrenchers goes in for an alignment, have the tech try it and show you the results.
Click to expand...
your right....machines DON'T lie.


Incompetent Operators _uck up more often.
 
Screw the both of you! I've been aligning cars and trucks for 15 years. I don't need to be insulted by some backyard wrencher who's put a few lift kits on.

If you don't understand something, don't comment on it. And don't make a competely incorrect statement while insulting someone's livelihood.
 
I NEVER mentioned your name.

It's not my job to know what everyone does for a living.

BUT you know it's true...more people that CAN'T run that kind of equipment make more mistakes.

The guy got some bad work by an incompetent mech. Not the first time...wont be the lsat.
 
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Thats really funnny that you said that like that... Do you work at sears by any chance? cause that is exactally what a man with one tooth told me when I tried to get sears to align my jeep, he said it couldn't be done, and i said it could, and he said ..."I've been aligning cars and trucks for 15 years. I don't need to be insulted by some backyard wrencher who's put a few lift kits on."

he was wrong
JJacobs said:
Screw the both of you! I've been aligning cars and trucks for 15 years. I don't need to be insulted by some backyard wrencher who's put a few lift kits on.

If you don't understand something, don't comment on it. And don't make a competely incorrect statement while insulting someone's livelihood.
Click to expand...


what happened to this thread anyway? where did the answers go?

a 1/4 of a turn on a tie rod can make a huge differnce, so can a turn on the drag link.
jj is a pro apparntly, he knows, bottom line is the thing is not right, and it should be adjusted by a professional with a machine in order to get it right and to get the best life out of your tires.

your job is to find a professional that has and knows how to use a machine, not a spank with a tool set and a tape measure.
 
OK guys, quit your squabbling before I have to pull out my chalk board and walk through the math to prove this one way or another.

The bottom line is that the change in the length of the drag link changes the angle slightly since the height of both the tre and the pitman arm remain fixed. That change in angle moves the intersection point of the drag link and the tie rod up and down slightly. By moving that intersection up and down, given the fact that the distances from the junction do not change, will cause a change in the distance between the right and left TRE's, ie. the toe in.

If someone will give me the relevent distances, I can calculate the change of toe in for a given change in the drag link.

Here is a way to prove it without the math. Take a tape measure and measure the toe in. Jack up the body and allow the front axle to droop, then measure the toe in again. You will see a change
 
WOW look what i started......anyways back on topic


I went back to the shop today and talked to the head mechanic. He said that he adjusted the drag link so the pitman arm faced straight back (correct position). But could not center the steering wheel since he thinks the steering console has been taken apart at one time and not splined back in correct . He said that he would center my steering wheel but i would lose turning radias one way.

I think iam gonna just take the steering wheel off and turn it back to normal as possible. I guess the only big problem is one turn signal does not shut off after a turn and the other one shuts off in the middle of a turn.
 
canadian,
it sounds like it is not in your steering console inside the jeep, (you can take the wheel horn/cover off and look at it, there will be a tic on the shaft that should line up with a tic on the wheel)
I would more than guess it is the connection at the steering box.
there is a little set screw thing and you can take the wheel connection off and put it back on right side up.

Good luck
 
Sounds like a cop out to me. Get under the vehicle with the wheels centered and look at the angle the pitman arms is sitting at. It should be to one side or the other if the wheel is upside down. Loosen the two bolts on the joining collar. Take a pipe wrench and start twisting the collar until the wheel is centered. Note, leave the key in the ignition, but the vehicle not running. You have to unlock the steering so you can force the steering wheel to turn as you perform the adjustment.

Before you tighten down the collar, start the vehicle and count the turns from center to lock on each side. If they are not roughly even, then you have gone the wrong direction on the adjustment and will need to repeat the process, but adjust the wheel 360 degrees backwards. Then start it up and check the turns. If you are paranoid, mark the position of the collar or count the turns. That way you can always put it back exactly where it was.

Don't forget to tighten the collar. Lots of Luck.
 
old_man said:
Sounds like a cop out to me. Get under the vehicle with the wheels centered and look at the angle the pitman arms is sitting at. It should be to one side or the other if the wheel is upside down. Loosen the two bolts on the joining collar. Take a pipe wrench and start twisting the collar until the wheel is centered. Note, leave the key in the ignition, but the vehicle not running. You have to unlock the steering so you can force the steering wheel to turn as you perform the adjustment.

Before you tighten down the collar, start the vehicle and count the turns from center to lock on each side. If they are not roughly even, then you have gone the wrong direction on the adjustment and will need to repeat the process, but adjust the wheel 360 degrees backwards. Then start it up and check the turns. If you are paranoid, mark the position of the collar or count the turns. That way you can always put it back exactly where it was.

Don't forget to tighten the collar. Lots of Luck.
Click to expand...

I know what u mean but the pitman arm is 100 % straight right now with the wheels straight. Not leaning to either side.
 
old_man said:
OK guys, quit your squabbling before I have to pull out my chalk board and walk through the math to prove this one way or another.

The bottom line is that the change in the length of the drag link changes the angle slightly since the height of both the tre and the pitman arm remain fixed. That change in angle moves the intersection point of the drag link and the tie rod up and down slightly. By moving that intersection up and down, given the fact that the distances from the junction do not change, will cause a change in the distance between the right and left TRE's, ie. the toe in.

If someone will give me the relevent distances, I can calculate the change of toe in for a given change in the drag link.

Here is a way to prove it without the math. Take a tape measure and measure the toe in. Jack up the body and allow the front axle to droop, then measure the toe in again. You will see a change
Click to expand...
The measurements I used:

drag link length - 36.25"
knuckle to tie-rod intersection - 10.375"
knuckle to pitman height difference @ 4.5 lift - 8.125"
tie rod length - 42"
steering arm radius (est.) - 6"

Based on the above measurements, a drag link adjustment of .655" is required to restore steering wheel offset resulting from the 4 1/2" lift. This .655" change would result in a drop at the tie rod drag link intersection of .023". This drop would pull the steering arm/knuckle over .006" resulting in a toe change of .036" on a 35" tire. That's about 1/32 of an inch.

Jacobs is right in that there would be some change, but not the 1/4" claimed. Not having the benefit of a bazillion dollar Hunter machine, I measure toe in my driveway to an accuracy of 1/8", so the calculated change would be negligable. But, I'm just some backyard wrencher who's put a few lift kits on, so the above is probably all bs. :)

YMMV

This is likely a mute argument since it sounds like the pitman arm is centered.
 
:twak: :twak: :twak: :twak: :doh: :doh: !!!1 !!!1
START FROM SCRATCH GUYS!
#1 pull pitman arm.
#2 turn steering wheel lock to lock and find center position. if steering wheel isn't straight, remove and index accordingly.
#3 place pitman arm pointing straight back towards rear axle.
#4 adjust TREs and draglink to proper alignment specs(leave this to a qualified alignment shop).
PERIOD. THE END. :conceited
 
JJacobs said:
Screw the both of you! I've been aligning cars and trucks for 15 years. I don't need to be insulted by some backyard wrencher who's put a few lift kits on.

If you don't understand something, don't comment on it. And don't make a competely incorrect statement while insulting someone's livelihood.
Click to expand...

im with you JJ

had this argument with RCP PHX a week or so ago...

XJ_Ranger said:
oh - and changing the drag link length on the invirted Y does change the toe.

If i lift my XJ 5" in the front (which i did) and dont mess with the steering at all (but do install an adjustable trackbar and center the axle) then to go straight down the road - my steering wheel is upside down, and my steering box will only rotate 1 turn to the right and stop well before the axle stops, but will rotate 2.5 turns left and hit the axle stop.

if i then lengthen the drag link, i change the angle between the tie rod and the drag link - making it more flat - pushing the front of the tires out and therefore changing my toe. I know this because it happened to me.
Click to expand...
 
WobblesXJ said:
You know it almost sounds like they could have put the pitman arm on 180 degrees off. I'd check that too.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't that cause it to steer backwards (turn left to go right)?
 
JJacobs said:
It moves it side to side, which changes the angle enough to affect toe. Wise up and quit spouting BS.
Click to expand...
Sorry, doesn't add up. Just did it on the CAD. You'd need to shorten the drag link over 2" to charge the angle enough to get .25" of toe change.

So...
you might wanna back up and play nice.
 
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