This will start some

[Ecomike]

I disagree. Bin Laden is responsible for the war. Saddam Hussein is responsible for the war.

But you forget, our people trained and helped put Saddam Hussein in power. He was our dictator to counter the Soviet threat. Then he turned on us. If he was responsible for the war, we were responsible for putting him power, which makes us responsible for the war anyway.

People that disrespect our president "IN A TIME OF WAR" and scream so loudly about how wrong this war is, make the war last longer, and KEEP our soldiers in danger.

If we don't scream load enough and put a stop to it, they will have no incentive to end the war, and even more will die. Until we get serious about packing up our toys and leaving Iraq, the Iraqies will have no incentive to reach a political settlement between the various factions there, which by the way has yet to happen! The surge was suppose to give them time to reach a settlement. They have not, and probably will not as long we keep hanging around.

Personally I think the same law that allows the government to prosecute people for yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater should be used to prosecute people that protest a war. The results are the same. Good people die.

Wow, even President Bush would not go there. I don't think he ever challenged our right to say the war is wrong. It's called freedom of speech, one of the things we are supposed to be fighting to protect!

More good people die in fighting a civil war that can not be won by unwanted outsiders.

 

[Ecomike]

I didnt mean the "economy" is fixable. I think, like you, its definately going to be a huge downhill slide followed by an up hill road.

I think you made a mistake in your post, I fixed it for you!

 

[Ecomike]

Hey mike The sky is falling... Dude i see more people buying shit today than LAST year... Hell look at me, Land, then put my home on it.. You keep beating this bush thing to the ground.. Next your going to say he started the global warming.. My god, does he do every thing thats wrong today? Go an spend some cash on your jeeps, then go off road.. Chit do some thing

Well at least I am not beating around the bush. :laugh3:

The reason you see all that spending is because Houston is the Energy capital of the USA, and was the energy capital of the world, but Dubai has taken that from us already. The rest of the USA is in deep shit already, and the energy bubble is about burst again and take Houston with it again. Been there done that.

Can't spend money on my jeep, it already broke me, besides I'm saving for gas so I can get to work, so I can make some money, so I can buy some gas again......

 

[Ecomike]

How did we get in this economic mess anyway. I know its easy to blame one party or another, or one POTUS or another but it seems to me oil prices are to blame. I admittedly dont know the ins and outs of oil barrel pricing except that when it goes up, prices at the pump go up. When that happens the price everything goes up and the market goes down as people lose confidence and buying power. Then the dollar loses value and the cycle starts all over.
im not sure I see a correlation between oil prices and what political party is in the white house, congress or the senate.
Doesnt OPEC set barrel prices? We arent in OPEC anymore are we?

Personally I think the Saudis and Iranians, and maye Dubai, UAE...., who control the bulk of the worlds oil exports, all Arab countries, slowly boosted the oil futures prices to teach President Bush and his crew a lesson for not listening to them when they told Bush not to invade Iraq. They told Bush that invading Iraq would lead to a civil war, that it would increase terrorism in the Middle east, and that it might spill over into the rest of the Middle East, along with increasing world demand that was kicked into high gear by too much cheap US money floating all over the world (US Budget deficit, printing huge amounts of money, caused by the IRAQ war plus record low interest rates at FED which have been slowly feeding world wide inflation with too many US dollars in circulation). Eventually too many dollars in circulation led to a drop in the value of the dollar, and oil is priced and sold worldwide only in US Dollars, so the recent drop in the value of the dollar led to an instant increase the price of oil.

No we are no longer in OPEC as we do not export oil. OPEC tries to set and control the supply of oil, by setting pumping and exporting limits for OPEC members. The price is set by commodities Futures contracts and by demand. When oil inventories increase the price drops, when oil inventories drop the price drops, unless there is some geo-political trouble brewing like Israel and Iran rattling their sabers at each other vocally!

 

[scottmcneal]

I see your glass is half empty, i'm so sorry.. Mine is half FULL.. Every 4 years we all scream the same crap.. Bad or good doesn't matter to some, they will never be happy..


As for me i'm always poking fun at some one, thats just me.. So sorry if i made you upset, i'll try to do better next time :moon: ..

 

[Ray H]

Personally I think the Saudis and Iranians, and maye Dubai, UAE...., who control the bulk of the worlds oil exports, all Arab countries, slowly boosted the oil futures prices to teach President Bush and his crew a lesson for not listening to them when they told Bush not to invade Iraq. They told Bush that invading Iraq would lead to a civil war, that it would increase terrorism in the Middle east, and that it might spill over into the rest of the Middle East, along with increasing world demand that was kicked into high gear by too much cheap US money floating all over the world (US Budget deficit, printing huge amounts of money, caused by the IRAQ war plus record low interest rates at FED which have been slowly feeding world wide inflation with too many US dollars in circulation). Eventually too many dollars in circulation led to a drop in the value of the dollar, and oil is priced and sold worldwide only in US Dollars, so the recent drop in the value of the dollar led to an instant increase the price of oil

You really think they artificially raised oil prices to spite Bush for being in Iraq? Im not sure I believe that. Both the Saudis and Iran hate Iraq. Granted, they hate us more, but they still hate Iraq. I dont see them jumping in to stop us from being there. I dont see them cutting off our supply of oil. That would be a killer for us. If they really wanted us gone, they could cut our oil supply off for a week and we would do one of two things, wave the white flag or bomb them back to the middle ages.

 

[Ecomike]

You really think they artificially raised oil prices to spite Bush for being in Iraq? Im not sure I believe that. Both the Saudis and Iran hate Iraq. Granted, they hate us more, but they still hate Iraq. I dont see them jumping in to stop us from being there. I dont see them cutting off our supply of oil. That would be a killer for us. If they really wanted us gone, they could cut our oil supply off for a week and we would do one of two things, wave the white flag or bomb them back to the middle ages.

They tried cutting off our oil supplies twice in 1972-73 and 1978 IIRC. The oil embargos of the 1970s. Partly because we jumped in to save Israel at the last minute, as Egypt was knocking on the Israeli front doors. Nixon sent the Israilis better weapons just as Israel was about to collapse, and just a short while later Israel nearly took over Egypt. There were several Israeli - Egypt wars back then, IIRC. I don't recall the exact dates, years, (69 and 72 come to mind) etc, but every time we sided with Israel, the Arabs cut off our oil supply. Nowdays, they are more sophisticated about how they punish us.

You don't kill a neighborhood bully, or castrate him, not if he is a real good customer with enough nukes to burn ya bad, you just punish him where it hurts until he changes his ways.

Our Achilies heal is Oil. We used up all our cheap domestic oil between 1930 and 1970. We need to wean ourselves off of oil, and convert to renewable energy sources that do not promote global warming.

The only reason the Saudis recently, finally agreed to pump and sell more oil is they are afraid the US ecconomy is about to go into a freefall collapse, with oil prices being one of the driving forces, and the Saudis own too much of major US companies to let the whole system collapse.

 

[Ecomike]

I see your glass is half empty, i'm so sorry.. Mine is half FULL.. Every 4 years we all scream the same crap.. Bad or good doesn't matter to some, they will never be happy..


As for me i'm always poking fun at some one, thats just me.. So sorry if i made you upset, i'll try to do better next time :moon: ..

DUDE! Poke away, I enjoy poking back!:laugh3:

My problem with the half full, half empty glass theory is many people no longer have a GLASS! Or a pot to piss in anymore!

I have not been one of the sky is falling crowd for a very long time, not since the stock market crash of 1987, which hurt me bad along with my livelyhood being outlawed that same year.

Me, I am doing fine, I am more concerned about 250 million begars lining up at my front door if things totally collapse because the government was in political gridlock and failed to act in time, or because the government wanted to wait and let the market correct itself.

 

[scottmcneal]

government was in political gridlock and failed to act in time, They wouldn't do this.. Come on, can't we just fire all of them an start over..

 

[Ray H]

They tried cutting off our oil supplies twice in 1972-73 and 1978 IIRC. The oil embargos of the 1970s. Partly because we jumped in to save Israel at the last minute, as Egypt was knocking on the Israeli front doors. .

I'll give you that. You may be on to something. During the embargo of the 70s they didnt shut us off completely though, they just cut us back, possibly because they didnt want us to go into a full out depression. I suppose what is happening now could be considered an embargo then. Hmmm, youve got me thinking a little now.

 

[Mudderoy]

I strongly disagree. New thread coming.

I understand, but you have to admit all the "public" complaining about the war doesn't help us win the war. I just emboldens the enemy. Of course the enemy in this case are the countries sending fighters into Iraq.

 

[Mudderoy]

But you forget, our people trained and helped put Saddam Hussein in power. He was our dictator to counter the Soviet threat. Then he turned on us. If he was responsible for the war, we were responsible for putting him power, which makes us responsible for the war anyway.



If we don't scream load enough and put a stop to it, they will have no incentive to end the war, and even more will die. Until we get serious about packing up our toys and leaving Iraq, the Iraqis will have no incentive to reach a political settlement between the various factions there, which by the way has yet to happen! The surge was suppose to give them time to reach a settlement. They have not, and probably will not as long we keep hanging around.



Wow, even President Bush would not go there. I don't think he ever challenged our right to say the war is wrong. It's called freedom of speech, one of the things we are supposed to be fighting to protect!

More good people die in fighting a civil war that can not be won by unwanted outsiders.

Good points Mike, but just because we made a mistake with Saddam isn't a good reason for us to allow it to continue. The Iraqis do need to stand up, but leaving that country defenseless would cause thousands more lives, put the region in control of Iran, and show the rest of the world that America may not be able to be bested militarily, but politically we're an easy target. Just like in Viet Nam.

Oh and one more thing. Personally I think having a couple of hundred thousand American troops on the border of Iran is a good thing.

I think protest, freedom of speech, is a good thing, however when it gets people killed something has to happen. People should have the good sense to understand that their protest should be less public so that Americans that are protecting this country are less of a target.

 

[GSequoia]

Alright everybody, at six o'clock tonight I want you to go into your basemets, close the blinds, shut the doors, turn out the lights, then say, quietly, "I do not want this war." Yeah! Then our message will totally be heard!

 

[Bent]

...maybe you should consider that they probably arent as ignorant as you are about this war because while you are sitting at home living it on TV, they are on the ground living it.
Not to be a dick, Im just trying to interject some reality here.

I think you're wating your breath. What is on TV is nowhere near what's going on. Can anybody think the military is that stupid? Doesn't anybody remember what Bush said when we started this war?! Now they're all crying because it's taking more than bombs and cruise missles. We need to finish what we started and that includes other targets. Now sack up or shut up! Sadly, though, I think the best you'll ever be able to do is the later.
:rattle:

 

[Bent]

I guess I must be.


But the real point here is that McCain is saying he will pull out of Iraq when the war is won, and only then, and then later he says he wants to stay there for 50 years. You can't have it both ways, unless he plans on fighting the war for 50 years while we stay there, which is just as rediculous.

You didn't listen; did you? Will you ever?
:conceited

 

[fscrig75]

OK, cheap shot maybe, but seriously, are you suggesting that McCain will be less likely to start a new war than Obama? One thing I am sure of is McCain would just asume stay in Iraq for another 50 years (pretty much his own words recorded on TV recently) and keep that war going, so maybe your right, he may be less likely to start a new war, just keep this one going on forever.

Didn't Barry say he was willing to go into Pakistan to get Osama? I'm pretty sure that would start a new war.

 

[Bent]

But you forget, our people trained and helped put Saddam Hussein in power. He was our dictator to counter the Soviet threat. Then he turned on us. If he was responsible for the war, we were responsible for putting him power, which makes us responsible for the war anyway.

ROTFLMFAO!
:confused1

 

[Ecomike]

Alright everybody, at six o'clock tonight I want you to go into your basements, close the blinds, shut the doors, turn out the lights, then say, quietly, "I do not want this war." Yeah! Then our message will totally be heard!

:roflmao:

 

[Ecomike]

I think you're wating your breath. What is on TV is nowhere near what's going on. Can anybody think the military is that stupid? Doesn't anybody remember what Bush said when we started this war?! Now they're all crying because it's taking more than bombs and cruise missles. We need to finish what we started and that includes other targets. Now sack up or shut up! Sadly, though, I think the best you'll ever be able to do is the later.
:rattle:

I recall when President Bush stood on the Deck of an aircraft carrier and announced proudly to the world "Mission accomplished"!

Shortly after that all hell broke loose in Iraq.

 

[Bent]

proudly to the world "Mission accomplished"!

Yeah, that was pretty stupid right thar, I don't care who you are.