This will start some

[ECKSJAY]

In what way do you think I "disgraced" the photo of those soldiers by hinting that President Bush is responsible for the war that killed them? I have a high regard for these people, but I also happen to think that the war they're dying in is a mistake based on lies. Their loyalty and bravery were wasted by a callous and dishonest leadership which talks a lot of patriotic hoopla but when it comes right down to it, puts a lower value on either their lives or their loyalty than on their own ideological agenda. Disagree if you want. Call me a prick if you think it will help. But while that knee is jerking, don't forget to keep your brain turned on too, or you'll fall down and hurt yourself.

Don't worry about him, he's just spouting self-importance and wanting you to kiss his ass. If he were all he claims to be, he wouldn't be hinting INFOSEC and OPSEC all over the Internets...at least I wouldn't think so anyway.

:chef:

 

[JNickel101]

Ah yes, I almost forgot you're one of those who wants to point the finger at Bush...its all his fault....riiight. Because we're a dictatorship here in the US. Blah blah blah leftist rhetoric blah blah blah....

Save your breath, it will just cost you more carbon credits.

I'm going to resist making a Red Foreman comment regarding my knee and what I wish it was doing.

 

[JNickel101]

Don't worry about him, he's just spouting self-importance and wanting you to kiss his ass. If he were all he claims to be, he wouldn't be hinting INFOSEC and OPSEC all over the Internets...at least I wouldn't think so anyway.

:chef:

Give me an example. I'd love to hear this.

I know exactly where I am and where I've been. I can even have another member verify where I am, because we're on the same base.

BTW, My location is an inside joke about where I'm at, because we "pretend" that no one knows we're here, even though the entire world already knows.

 

[fscrig75]

Don't worry about him, he's just spouting self-importance and wanting you to kiss his ass. If he were all he claims to be, he wouldn't be hinting INFOSEC and OPSEC all over the Internets...at least I wouldn't think so anyway.

:chef:

OPSEC? I don't see any OPSEC!

I can't see the pictures, so I can't comment on them. You can't just blame Bush for the war, Congress approved it, and they believed the same intel that Bush believed. Everyone is a great MMQB but at the time, IMO, it was the right decision.
Oh and I still support the decision.

 

[fscrig75]

But what are we getting instead? Stupid manipulations of people's names, lies and innuendo, and, for this thread, the ridiculous insinuation that the emblem on Obama's plane is unamerican because it isn't a flag, phrased in the purposefully misleading way that suggests that a flag was removed and replaced.

But its so much fun to make fun of Barry, and that white haired guy.

 

[buschwhaked]

It was meant to be inflammatory. I'm glad you got the point.

This whole thread is based on a piece of crap, that reflects the pathetic decline in rational and civil discourse in politics today. There are big and important issues here, and many good and interesting reasons why one can oppose one or the other candidate. If you can't find some real and honest reasons to be wary of Obama, or to disagree with him, then you're not looking very hard.

But what are we getting instead? Stupid manipulations of people's names, lies and innuendo, and, for this thread, the ridiculous insinuation that the emblem on Obama's plane is unamerican because it isn't a flag, phrased in the purposefully misleading way that suggests that a flag was removed and replaced.

If some other candidate decided to wear red white and blue jockey shorts, would Obama have to do it too to prove he's not a foreign terrorist?

Obama is a Democrat, and in many areas at least, a liberal. As such, every idea he has is subject to scrutiny and argument by people who hold contrary views. He may also be a liar and it's a lead pipe cinch he's an opportunist. Can you find the instances of that and debate them? Hint: flags aren't involved.

I'm a Soldier and I wasn't offended.

Republican's use shock imagery all the time to try and elicit the most base of emotions from the populace. JNICKEL, you're a prime example of that, no offense.

The Founding Fathers would be sad and ashamed to see how low the roll of reason and logic has sunk to amongst the "informed citizenry."

Quit using your emotions to lead your brain around.

 

[JNickel101]

Don't worry about him, he's just spouting self-importance and wanting you to kiss his ass. If he were all he claims to be, he wouldn't be hinting INFOSEC and OPSEC all over the Internets...at least I wouldn't think so anyway.

:chef:

Say what you want - my point is that he's a prick for using a picture like that to make his point. I actually agree with his point, HOWEVER, his method of going about it was incredibly disrespectful.

I could care less about what Obama puts on his plane. How about we discuss real issues instead of petty bullshit?

Using Bush hating rhetoric as a backer for why he used the pic makes it even worse. Get off your horse and quit blaming Bush for everything that you think is wrong. I neither want nor need anyone's ass kissing. I'm simply speaking for those who can no longer speak, because they gave the ultimate sacrifice for me and you. If you can't see that....then wow.

 

[fscrig75]

I'm a Soldier and I wasn't offended.

Offended, not really, but I believe it to be in bad taste. I'm just not a big fan of our fallen brother as a political tool. Kinda right up there w/ those wacko religious freaks that go to veterans funerals and scream about these soldiers dying because of fags and AIDS.
But thats just me.

 

[JNickel101]

I'm a Soldier and I wasn't offended.

Republican's use shock imagery all the time to try and elicit the most base of emotions from the populace. JNICKEL, you're a prime example of that, no offense.

The Founding Fathers would be sad and ashamed to see how low the roll of reason and logic has sunk to amongst the "informed citizenry."

Quit using your emotions to lead your brain around.

You're a unique one - I'll say that. You have views and opinions unlike any I've ever seen from a military member. I have yet to figure you out and doubt I ever will. Conscientious objector?

Sometimes you have to use emotion and your "gut" - if you hesitate, its too late. You should understand that. I agree with the point he was trying to make - that's the sad part - he should have just used better judgement regarding making that point.

 

[JNickel101]

and x2, I never used the word offended. Actually, I've never used that word. I'm pretty damn sure you couldn't "offend" me. But piss me off....well, yeah, that's pretty evident.

 

[Ecomike]

It was meant to be inflammatory. I'm glad you got the point.

This whole thread is based on a piece of crap, that reflects the pathetic decline in rational and civil discourse in politics today. There are big and important issues here, and many good and interesting reasons why one can oppose one or the other candidate. If you can't find some real and honest reasons to be wary of Obama, or to disagree with him, then you're not looking very hard.

But what are we getting instead? Stupid manipulations of people's names, lies and innuendo, and, for this thread, the ridiculous insinuation that the emblem on Obama's plane is unamerican because it isn't a flag, phrased in the purposefully misleading way that suggests that a flag was removed and replaced.

If some other candidate decided to wear red white and blue jockey shorts, would Obama have to do it too to prove he's not a foreign terrorist?

Obama is a Democrat, and in many areas at least, a liberal. As such, every idea he has is subject to scrutiny and argument by people who hold contrary views. He may also be a liar and it's a lead pipe cinch he's an opportunist. Can you find the instances of that and debate them? Hint: flags aren't involved.

:yelclap:

Finally! Something I can agree with has been posted here!

Maybe there is hope for us afterall!

 

[buschwhaked]

You're a unique one - I'll say that. You have views and opinions unlike any I've ever seen from a military member. I have yet to figure you out and doubt I ever will. Conscientious objector?

Sometimes you have to use emotion and your "gut" - if you hesitate, its too late. You should understand that. I agree with the point he was trying to make - that's the sad part - he should have just used better judgement regarding making that point.

Not that unique actually, and definitly not an objector. But what I experienced in Iraq caused my black and white views go very grey. You're right in that trusting your gut is important, but not in politics.

I was really tempted to go off on you, and frankly your remarks pissed me off. But flying off the handle on the internet is pointless. You're in the AF and it is highly unlikely that you've even stepped off a base in Iraq unless it was in a plane. I was as arrogant and sure of my convictions pre-deployment as you are now, but real combat, not just sucking air in the Middle East changed the way I look at things, and to be quite honest I don't know where I stand on a lot of issues anymore. All I know I want from politics anymore is a reasonable and well thought out decisions.

Making decisions on a candidate based on what sticker he slaps on the tail of his airplane, or e-slapping someone around because he used an emotional image to draw a reaction in the opposite direction gets us nowhere.

 

[JNickel101]

Not that unique actually, and definitly not an objector. But what I experienced in Iraq caused my black and white views go very grey. You're right in that trusting your gut is important, but not in politics.

I was really tempted to go off on you, and frankly your remarks pissed me off. But flying off the handle on the internet is pointless. You're in the AF and it is highly unlikely that you've even stepped off a base in Iraq unless it was in a plane. I was as arrogant and sure of my convictions pre-deployment as you are now, but real combat, not just sucking air in the Middle East changed the way I look at things, and to be quite honest I don't know where I stand on a lot of issues anymore. All I know I want from politics anymore is a reasonable and well thought out decisions.

Making decisions on a candidate based on what sticker he slaps on the tail of his airplane, or slapping someone around because he used an emotional image to draw a reaction in the opposite direction gets us nowhere.

I'll say it again - I agree with the point he was trying to make - that I could care less how Obama paints his plane - and that shouldn't be an issue at all. Instead, someone made it an issue. But proving your point the way he did, I disagreed with.

I made my choice of service just as you did. Go ahead and go off on me - and make your assumptions - you're right, I didn't go door to door in Baghdad this past year - but if you want we can talk offline about the time on the ground I did in Afghanistan in 05, or any other deployment I've done in the past. You can stereotype me based on my branch - but you won't catch me doing that with you because I respect every other service. Just as I respect the men and women in that photo. Some apparently do not.

So...I'll ask you to go off on me - but for what reason? Because I respect them? Your move.

 

[fscrig75]

Everyone chill. We need all branchs of the service.

 

[Ecomike]

Not that unique actually, and definitly not an objector. But what I experienced in Iraq caused my black and white views go very grey. You're right in that trusting your gut is important, but not in politics.

I was really tempted to go off on you, and frankly your remarks pissed me off. But flying off the handle on the internet is pointless. You're in the AF and it is highly unlikely that you've even stepped off a base in Iraq unless it was in a plane. I was as arrogant and sure of my convictions pre-deployment as you are now, but real combat, not just sucking air in the Middle East changed the way I look at things, and to be quite honest I don't know where I stand on a lot of issues anymore. All I know I want from politics anymore is a reasonable and well thought out decisions.

Making decisions on a candidate based on what sticker he slaps on the tail of his airplane, or e-slapping someone around because he used an emotional image to draw a reaction in the opposite direction gets us nowhere.

OMG, another post I can agree with!

:cheers:

Especially the part about realizing that many issues are shades of grey, and not simple black and white, meaning right and wrong.

The new Batman movie, the Dark Knight (SP?) deals with that grey area quite extensively, and quite well, artisically I might add! It will make you question any ideas or preconcieved notions you may have of everything being black and white, right or wrong. And I suspect serving on the ground in Iraq or Afganistan would do the same thing to most.

 

[Trail-Axe]

Matthew Currie wrote: Aren't there any actual issues out there? Why do people stoop to this kind of crap?

I have one question about the photo caption in the original post: it says the flag "no longer" appears on Obama's plane. This language suggests that there had been a flag, or that there was supposed to have been a flag, and it was removed. Was there? Is a flag the default on an airplane tail?

I suppose if I wanted to play dirty, I'd point out that our current president is an expert at putting flags on an airplane:

It's not playing dirty, it just shows the rest of us how ignorant you are. Last time I checked, the soldiers coming back from Iraq were killed by terrorists. You know the type, the cowards that hide behind women and children, then shoot at us, or stab our boys in the back with their IED's. Any "boy" that uses the death of our soldiers to poke at our current commander and chief is a coward! These MEN died serving America. They took the fight to the fight and deserve better then having their coffins show up in a post to support your liberal views. If my son was in one of those boxes, and you said something like that to my face.... Let's just say you are very fortunate I fear God more then I hate cowards like you!

 

[FlexdXJ]

X2 I'm pointing it out to the Obama puppet supporters. For me the choise is easy, An Idealistic, ultra liberal one term senator or an experienced multi term senator who has been around long enough to know how to get the job done and he has served his country.

~Alex

Amen! hmm.. should i vote for a guy who spent time locked in a cage for our country or Obama who i never heard of until this campaign started. hard choice. I don't care about the republican or democrat shit. People always tell me Oh, well, McCain will just start another war blah blah all that shit but do you really think someone who spent like 5 years locked in a cage as a POW wants to start a war?

 

[Ecomike]

Amen! hmm.. should i vote for a guy who spent time locked in a cage for our country or Obama who i never heard of until this campaign started. hard choice. I don't care about the republican or democrat shit. People always tell me Oh, well, McCain will just start another war blah blah all that shit but do you really think someone who spent like 5 years locked in a cage as a POW wants to start a war?

Are you saying that being locked in cage is a credible credential for being president of the USA?

OK, cheap shot maybe, but seriously, are you suggesting that McCain will be less likely to start a new war than Obama? One thing I am sure of is McCain would just asume stay in Iraq for another 50 years (pretty much his own words recorded on TV recently) and keep that war going, so maybe your right, he may be less likely to start a new war, just keep this one going on forever. :wantyou:

But back to reality again, I think the real issue for voters this year is the economy, and on that issue McCain is a lost puppy, he hasn't a clue what to do or how to do it, and he has sort of admitted that. Not to mention that McCain is past his prime.

 

[Ray H]

Are you saying that being locked in cage is a credible credential for being president of the USA?

OK, cheap shot maybe, but seriously, are you suggesting that McCain will be less likely to start a new war than Obama? One thing I am sure of is McCain would just asume stay in Iraq for another 50 years (pretty much his own words recorded on TV recently) and keep that war going, so maybe your right, he may be less likely to start a new war, just keep this one going on forever. :wantyou:

But back to reality again, I think the real issue for voters this year is the economy, and on that issue McCain is a lost puppy, he hasn't a clue what to do or how to do it, and he has sort of admitted that. Not to mention that McCain is past his prime.

You make valid points but something to think about. It doesnt matter who is president, we will either be in another war in the middle east or stay in this one. Obama can speech all he wants about how he wont send our boys over there, but I know its all crap. That place has been fighting forever, they will continue fighting whether we are there or not. We have a vested interest in what happens there. I assure you, we will be involved in everything that happens there, it doesnt matter who is pres. At least McCain is honest about that.
On the economy issue. I wish McCain was stronger on it. I will vote for him either way because I trust him alot further than I do Obama, but it sure would be easier to vote for him if he had a better plan. My hope is he surrounds himself with people who do know the economy. At least thats a fixible problem. Integrety and honesty arent fixible.

 

[JNickel101]

Are you saying that being locked in cage is a credible credential for being president of the USA?

OK, cheap shot maybe, but seriously, are you suggesting that McCain will be less likely to start a new war than Obama? One thing I am sure of is McCain would just asume stay in Iraq for another 50 years (pretty much his own words recorded on TV recently) and keep that war going, so maybe your right, he may be less likely to start a new war, just keep this one going on forever. :wantyou:

But back to reality again, I think the real issue for voters this year is the economy, and on that issue McCain is a lost puppy, he hasn't a clue what to do or how to do it, and he has sort of admitted that. Not to mention that McCain is past his prime.

Getting an A+ in speech class isn't a credible credential for being POTUS either, but...

Neither man has outstanding, overwhelming credentials - that is a fact. Both have some ok points, but as has been stated many times before, this is truely an election of "which is the lesser of the two evils". Obama may have some upside, but the safe bet is with McCain. I can't say I'd trust Obama any further than I could punt him with my bum knee.

And IN MY OPINION Ray H is 100% correct in everything he said. Good post Ray!