Rear Triangulated 4-link..... worth doing?

[Zebaru]

Hey, hows that UHMW workin for ya?
Why don't you just install hooks to grab the rocks.

Seriously? Have you run UHMW skids before?

I have not been in all types of rocks, but for what I have run, I have never regretted the UHMW boatsides on my rig...

But then again, I am a civil engineer, so I probably don't know what I am talking about (apparently)...

 

[vetteboy]

I have not been in all types of rocks, but for what I have run, I have never regretted the UHMW boatsides on my rig...

I've been very pleased with my UHMW belly skid, as well.

 

[uncc civilengineer]

funny stuff... Everything was bought by me on this XJ.. however we've built a few jeeps from the ground up.. But then again looking at yours what did you build, some links? I mean come on now.. who cant go pick up some tube/inserts/joints and weld a little? or buy a bender and notcher and go at it... It's all about the amount of time you have available..

As for your shock comments... My Fox's are already tied into my cage... so that's not an issue.. As for you 16's mounted that high up.. you could accomplish the same amount of droop w/ a 12 or 14 moving the mount down.. The shock body gets significantly longer as you go up... As for why you had so much trouble setting your rear up.. what did your rear link configuration look like? any limiting strap?

As for basing my "unbalanced" comment on one picture... try this.. click the link, then click "full album"... amazing, there's more pictures...

As for the chassis.... check out Big Woody's rig on Pirate... the chassis was built by Jim... again I said chassis.. why would I try to bend that much tube when I can pay someone a small amount extra to bend it for me and thats what he does for a living (and is very good at it)... Hell if I bent it myself it may end up looking like the buggy your driving now.


Edit: the civil engineering comments are pretty lame... what do you have against people helping to create your roads, bridges, water supply, treatment systems, minimizing environmental impacts, etc?

Edit #2: I didn't even read the UHMW comment.. I mean come now were you serious?

You seem to be somewhat of an angry person...

 

[Roxtar]

As for the UHMW comment. If your goal is to protect the pretty steel boatsides, I guess it will work fine. If your goal is to use the boatsides as intended, to slide over rocks, why would you use something that has far more friction and can be gouged into more easily (creating even more friction) than the plain steel it's covering.
Just wondering :dunno:
Can you use 14" or 12" shocks, moving the mount down? Well, sure.
Is it helpful in any way? Well, ah, not really.
I didn't say you can't slap together some links and weld them up and have a four link. I said to do it right, making it work as intended, getting the flex you want without losing the stability you need. Yea, that can be a bit tough and usually takes some trial & error, especially when working in the confines of the full body.

As for what I've done, you might want to ask around before going there. There isn't a bolt or weld on that rig I didn't put there; from the axles to the rack on top.
I just think it's rather funny; someone who's built his truck with his checkbook commenting on a rig he has no clue about.
I do, however, understand your "I'll four link it when I get a chance," comment now. You mean, "Pay someone to four link it when they get a chance."

Oh and the civil engineer jabs were just little pokes based on private practice vs government employment. It often isn't by choice.
Just tossing a little shit, not angry.

 

[uncc civilengineer]

Yes... i built my rig w/ my checkbook... i paid someone to install every bolt on it... If that's what you think then fine.. I may have purchsed products from places like RE, THOR, Rock Krawler, etc.... just like you unless you built your coil springs, air shocks, heims, inserts, HMS, steel... so kiss my ass on that comment.. But I installed every product that's on my jeep...
As for the comment I'll pay someone to 4-link my jeep.. your right I'll pay:

Myself for some 2" 0.25 wall DOM, 1.75" .120 wall DOM, 3/16 and .25" plate
Ballistic Fab for some: inserts/heims/jam nuts/HMS (unless you're willing to make me some since you obviously made the Johnny joints shown in your pictures...)
Currie for an Antirock to save the time of making one...

When I said I'll 4-link it when I get a chance is because not all of us work government jobs @ 39.5 hrs/week.

Your friction comment is off based... the coefficient of friction for steel is typically 0.80 while engineered plastics are in the 0.17 range... it also has a lot more abrasion resistance than steel...

Are you having a mid life crisis?

 

[XJ_ranger]

FWIW -

I was really happy with my leaves after moving the shackle forward and down for better shackle angle...

This added some lift, and I removed a leaf from the pack to account for it...

After wheeling it this way a few times, I had issues with spring wrap (because of the softer springs).

I thought about dropping the coin on good leaf springs...

but decided to throw a ladder bar on there to control spring wrap to see if it would work, and id get some more use out of these springs...

I couldn't be happier... The performance gain was awesome... and my rig feels more 'planted' and actually climbs better...
and If i had to pay for the materials (didn't have access to scrap bins ) it would have cost like $200...

I used 4 RE Superflex joints, 8" of separation at the axle, joint welded to a cross member behind my flat belly, and shackle up into where my floor used to be...

I think the only thing that I'd gain by going to links would be departure angle and not getting hung on the shackle... and then it wouldn't be much gain, 'cuse my bumper isn't much better...

if all you're looking to gain is a better departure angle - then you ought to re-design your rear bumper...

My stock rear bumper hangs out like 6" past the back of the body, and my OEM hitch is really low... there is a lot to be gained there... but I don't have too many issues...

I noticed cutting and folding the rear quarters more than anything else (departure wise) on the rig...

as for this -

When I said I'll 4-link it when I get a chance is because not all of us work government jobs @ 39.5 hrs/week.

last time I checked, Brad owns his own hydraulic cylinder manufacturing business, and works his ass off as a small business owner...

 

[uncc civilengineer]

XJ-Ranger.. I've been considering relocating the shackle below the box in the rear for some time now... But the added height just didnt appeal to me.. Now that I look at it I could probably hack down my current skackles to negate the lift.

Do you feel that the only reason you experienced more axle wrap was due to removing the leaf? not just relocating the leafs...Building a traction bar really isnt an issue because I looked into it as well but just haven't had the need for one yet.

I am starting to get bored that's why I put my name on the list for a chassis.... Maybe I should just start hacking off the back of the XJ and see what happens IDK..

Around here steep climbs are not "typical" but steep ledges 6+ feet are very common.. that's where my rear bumper just digs in... It's pretty tight w/ the body (+3" maybe) so Im at a loss at how to combat that short of stretching the wheelbase. OR I guess just face it theres just some things the XJ's not going to be able to do... It's just hard to admit b/c if I can get remotely any traction these tires just want to climb and I feel like I'm letting them down... :doh:

EDIT:

...
Oh and the civil engineer jabs were just little pokes based on private practice vs government employment. It often isn't by choice.
Just tossing a little shit, not angry.

That's what I was basing that comment off of.. not being mean.. we (private) give Gov't engineers a hard time about the lack of actual work they do also.....

 

[XJ_ranger]

im fermiliar with 'steep climbs' with 'big ledges'...

I think the axle wrap has to do with my bastard pack having 4 years of hard use on it, and the fact that I removed one of the stiffer leaves that was probably the reason that I didnt notice the wrap in the past...

once I added the traction bar though, it felt like I was driving a rig with links - in that the rear end felt 'planted' - at speed (65mph across the desert) and in the rocks - climbing and everything else 'felt' better - because i didnt feel ANY loading and unloading of the rear... like i used to - even when i thought i didnt have axle wrap...

consider cutting into the rear cross member...
maybe move the fuel tank up into the area that your cage prevents you from putting a full cooler anyhow... and putting a psudo 'roll pan' on the back - starting at the shackles and ending at the bottom of the hatch...

doing that well, and making that look nice would take real talent...

 

[uncc civilengineer]

Yep.. since the cooler no longer fits I'm just going to fill the area up w/ a fuel cell... No really my "full-size" cooler did fit though but dont tell everyone or i'll have to go back to being the cooler bitch.

I've had a fuel cell w/ sender and pump sitting in my Summit Racing basket for some time now just havent pulled the trigger... I think i'll draw up some form of rear "stinger"... and look at how much sheet metal i'll have to remove to flip my leafpacks around..

Anyone off the top of their head know about how much wheel base that'll add... I really only want about 3-4".. much more and i'll be hanging my belly on everything on 37's.

 

[Captain Ron]

...
and If i had to pay for the materials (didn't have access to scrap bins ) ...
...

Cherokee fab guys, the manufacturing world's equivalent to the homeless dumpster diver.

Didn't look out of place at all.



--ron

 

[Roxtar]

Listen kid, sorry if I pissed in your Wheaties.
This whole thing started off with you making an off-handed comment like, "or maybe I'll four link it when I get a chance." (something to that effect)

That's like saying, "I'm thinking of installing a RE 4.5" longarm kit - or maybe I'll build a buggy."
It shows an utter lack of knowledge about what is involved in this kind of project and I called you on it.
Deal with it.
You seem to have a little problem dealing with criticism. (the thread about your cage comes to mind. The "cooler" comment, obviously, still has you pissed off.BTW, the reason for that comment is that that stupid cross bar, 10" off the floor serves absolutely no purpose)
Get over it.
You then decide to criticize a build you have no idea about, regarding a design you have no clue about.
That shows balls you have no right to have.

Example: I can't wait to see you install that Curry Anti-Roc in the rear of your XJ. Where are you going to put it? Through the middle of the gas tank? No?
I guess it'll have to be in the cargo area like mine, then, right?
What are you gonna weld the Curry tube to? You do know how the Curry mounts up, right?
After you get it welded to...whatever, how are you going to slide the shaft through it? Cut a hole in the side of the truck?
Starting to see why a custom built swaybar is necessary?

Are you starting to get it?

Projects like this are way more than they look like. If/when you decide to really start designing/fabbing your own shit, you'll understand.
Until then, a little humility might be in order.

 

[uncc civilengineer]

ok..listen old man..

my comment about "I'll 4-link it when i get a chance".. is just that... I wheel every weekend, I work all week.. When I get a chance I will actually do it.. IF I WANT TO. That does not mean I cannot go ahead and work on my link design/x-member... I just do not like down time.. I repeat I like to wheel every weekend and work all week.. therefore the "when I get a chance" comes into play.. You didnt call me out on shit!

Also your stupid comment about the currie tube... maybe I'll run it like Vetteboy did genious... ever think about that.. I dont recall his going through the gas tank, body, cab.. and no trouble inserting the actual bar .. I know you've you looked at his? read it..so let me know what your next scenario/example is going to be..

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=931758

So, no it doesnt have to go in the cab...


Your absolutly asinine comment about "I'm thinking of installing a RE 4.5" longarm kit - or maybe I'll build a buggy." is just that asinine.. It's not even in the same relm of reality. where are you?

EDIT: What it all boils down to is how can you sit there and honestly act like a rear 4-link is that difficult to build? Maybe if you had spent more time reading and designing you would have learned from other's mistakes and not had so much trial and error...

EDIT #2: Also, obviously from reading Vettboy's thread about his antirock.. you must have problems w/ people spending money to purchase parts? Why is that? If the money is available and it saves time from sourcing/fabbing why the hate?

EDIT #3: Does anyone know some actual strength numbers for JB Weld... I dont have a welder and figured I could use it to hold everything together.. It seems to be working w/ my cage..

EDIT #4: The bar across the back of my XJ serves a little purpose BUT it may come out... It is the same height as the bar that my shocks are attached to... Therefore I now have a flat surface 10" off my rear floor... I also have space for (2) slide out drawers... any more comments?

EDIT #5: I can web fight you all day long.. :twak: but that's just pointless... I appologize for judging your build.. To be honest I really like your XJ.. some things I would use.. some I wouldn't... That's how things are made better.. live and learn from other's. This thread is getting out of hand.. Again I'm not mad at you at all.. just please dont call me "kid" that's an underhanded comment that middle aged people always throw out and anyone younger than them.. So can we get back to keeping this thread on track...

Is a rear 4-link really worth it?

 

[Jes]

Geeze, why don't you guys go run a real trail or something. :dunce:

 

[Phil]

Geeze, why don't you guys go run a real trail or something. :dunce:

Jes, you need to comp cut that bad bitch!

 

[Jes]

Jes, you need to comp cut that bad bitch!

:laugh2:

 

[Roxtar]

Is a rear 4-link really worth it?

No

First off, I apologize for the "kid" thing.
Please listen for just one moment.
I've done a LOT of fab work.
I build things because I won't accept the compromises often associated with buying them.
I thread my own links because I want longer threads for more adjustment.
I weld threaded rod on my superflex joints because they weren't avail in LH threads which would force removal to adjust. I also want more than 2.5" of threads.
I built my swaybar because I wouldn't accept losing 4" of clearance under the frame.
I'm not bragging, I'm trying to get through to you that you really don't know what is involved in this kind of project.
I'm not saying you have to be as picky as I am, but it's way more involved than you obviously realize, IF done correctly.

Reading about other people's four linked, full bodied, XJs?
Whose?
Look around. See many? Definitely not 3 years ago when I built mine.
I haven't seen a whole lot since.
Anyway, again, I apologise.

 

[Matt S.]

Jes, you need to comp cut that bad bitch!

Just as long as its all crooked like yours right?

 

[uncc civilengineer]

I think i'm just going to spend $2,000 and pick up the Rock Krawler coil conversion w/ 10" coilovers... just kidding..

I see that you pay very close attention to detail and I admire that.. not many people actually do (i actually try to and that's what was slowing me down on building a rear 4-link).. Truth is we just finished a triangulated 4-link in the rear of my cousins YJ and what we thought was going to be a 3-4 week job has turned into 2 months.... And it has a freaking frame to work with... So, I do know how involved it would be.. especially w/ a unibody to deal w/.

Also, I have purchased a lot of parts for my XJ solely because I do not have the time to manufacture them.. Not because it's difficult.. but time is just something I dont have.. I am going to "re-do" my front link setup though and incorporate it into a flat-as-possible belly pan... Not that the RK stuff is junk or anything I just have project-itis...

ALSO, has anyone actually done something similar to what XJ-Ranger was talking about (a rear stinger on a xj)? I've seen them on TJ's and some buggy's but not a XJ...

 

[Phil]

Just as long as its all crooked like yours right?

I didn't see you helping. At least Opie made me a bumper.

 

[Matt S.]

I didn't see you helping. At least Opie made me a bumper.

You live to far now... lets just be glad the bumper didn't fall off!