Problem with SC Kits(SC Rant)

[RaiderX7]

I had a Supercharger rant about the kits available for our XJ's. I wanted everyone to see it so i am starting its own thread. I want to get everyones opinions about the kits available. So hears the rant.

Hears what i don't get. The XJ is a very popular vehicle. Why doesn't some company put some time and effort into a kit that will work and we wont have to do shit like cutting the hood. If Avenger superchargers was smart, the simplest thing that could do is at least produce a hood to go along with their kit. And get the smallest Bump Possible. Or Avenger or Blair Or Kenny Bell could do the right thing and just Make a quality New Intake Manifold. Yes it would bring the price of their kit up but I know i would still buy it. Their is not a single Company that makes a quality Kit. Hell ill go down the Dam List (in no Particular Order)
1.XJ-Armor= First off its a centrifical Supercharger. Last time i checked my XJ hats to rev hi. So thats strike one. Second you have to remove your A/C. Not sure about you guys but i live in Las Vegas. Its fucking hot. Theirs no god dam why i am ever getting rid of my A/C. No matter hove much more horse Power i will get.
2.KenneBell= They don't even make a kit for us. I emailed on more then once on if they can tune a XJ Computer if i where to get a different SC. Never Emailed me Back. Emailed them again asking if, With some fabing i could take their TJ kit to my XJ. They said No. Just NO. KenneBell would Make TONS OF MONEY. If they would make Their kit work with the XJ. Their Loss. Oh almost Forgot. That going to have the same hood clearance issues as the Avenger does.
3.Avenger SuperCharger= Theirs no tuning to the kit. I don't like adding boost and not having something to help the computer out. I think all they do is add another injector or something. I wish i could get more details but their site is down and when it was up. Really didn't get into deep details about their kit. Before i drop a HUGE chunk of change on a kit. I want to know everything about it. And lets not forget the Hood Problems. Lets just cut a huge freaking hole in the hood. Again I'm not sure about you guys but in Vegas its dusty, dirty and rains every so often. I don't want a giant hood scoop on my XJ. Thats not the look i am going for and i can probably guess thats not the look alot of other Fellow XJ owners are going for too.
4.BlairBuilt= Now i don't know much about this company. But the use a M62 instead of a M90 Eaton Supercharger. Thats good and bad. Its good cause their kit for the TJ's. Doesn't some with a body lift like the kennebell kit. So who knows I'm might now have hood clearance issues. I highly dought it but it would have the smallest Hood Dent/Scoop/Bugle out of the Positive Displacement SuperChargers. But theirs a bad Part. Me personally one day my XJ will be a Supercharged 4.6L. I don't care how much money it takes me, (or who long cuz its gonna take time). The M62 is only good for up to 4.0L. So once you start Stroking the motor(i know i laughed too). That supercharger just wont be able to keep up. Also their dam site is down and gone. At least the Avenger Site has a Page saying the site is being overhauled. I don't see anything for Blair. Hell i don't see them returning at all.
5.Hesco= Now like Blair i don't know much about their supercharger. I think its a positive Displacement SC. I am Not sure what brand SC. But Hears what i do know. They don't have a kit for the late Model XJ's. Which means me and my 99XJ and my money will be shopping else where.

Out of 5 Company's. Some good some bad. Not a single Once can make a great kit. And buy great i mean. Either comes with a new comp or you send them your comp to get Flashed. Has all the Fuel Problems all Figured out. ITS DAM Intercooled.( the XJ-armor kit doesn't come withone). Its Complete Bolt on. I really don't like drilling holes in my oil Pan. And fits under my dam hood without having to cut a hole in it. Really is that to much to ask for. Its not like the XJ is Not Popular or something. Its not like these companies wouldn't make their money back. I don't mind paying extra for a kit that comes with everything even a new intake manifold if need be. My other car is a srt4. I love the thing. What i love most about it. Is that its boosted. I want the same thing with my XJ. Looks like i am going to have to wait until a good company can step out to the dam plate. Well I'm don't whining now.

Also i cant spell/type/ and do grammar for anything. I didn't join the military cuz i was a A+ student. So before anyone whines Get over it

 

[5-90]

The main problem lies in underhood real estate and the unibody construction of the XJ.

The Kenne Bell kit comes with 1" hockey pucks to pick up the body of the TJ - so you don't have the Whipple self-clearancing on the hood...

XJ-Armor selected the centrifugal to avoid hood clearance issues. You can size a centrifugal, and it will "spin up" at lower crankshaft speeds - select a centrifugal according to much the same rules you use for a turbocharger.

Avenger addresses the clearance issue with a hole and scoop - not sure I like that idea, either.

Haven't looked into Blair's kit - perhaps I should.

I've got a long-term project sitting in my back yard (no way in Hell I'm even working on it while I'm in CA - it would never pass smog, by the time I'm done...) and one stage is going to be coming up with a redesigned intake to mount a Whipple blower on its side, and still have provision for the power steering to be mounted. This is a project that most companies are not willing to take up, and the "why" of that is understandable.

Also, note that most Jeep blower kits run under 1/2 ATM of boost - which is usually the "critical level" for charge air cooling. You can run low boost levels without intercooling - say, up to seven pounds or so - with minimal trouble. You just end up needing to tweak your mixture a little rich to compensate. However, charge air cooling does help - the lower the temperature you can reach, the better.

However, given a choice, I am leaning more toward the Whipple than the Eaton/Roots - you can fit the same displacement into a smaller package, and the Whipple has greater thermal efficiency than the Eaton/Roots. You also still get the advantage of the Eaton/Roots - where you can fit up an electric clutch to the thing, and cut it in and out at will. I'm also looking into Bowling & Grippo's MegaSquirt engine controller, instead of the RENIX - simply because it's going to be a lot easier to tune the MS...

This is, however, a long-term project.

5-90

 

[Beej]

I'm just reposting it with some spaces because its a tad hard to read all compressed together...

I had a Supercharger rant about the kits available for our XJ's. I wanted everyone to see it so i am starting its own thread. I want to get everyones opinions about the kits available. So hears the rant.

Hears what i don't get. The XJ is a very popular vehicle. Why doesn't some company put some time and effort into a kit that will work and we wont have to do shit like cutting the hood.

If Avenger superchargers was smart, the simplest thing that could do is at least produce a hood to go along with their kit. And get the smallest Bump Possible. Or Avenger or Blair Or Kenny Bell could do the right thing and just Make a quality New Intake Manifold.

Yes it would bring the price of their kit up but I know i would still buy it. Their is not a single Company that makes a quality Kit. Hell ill go down the Dam List (in no Particular Order)

1.XJ-Armor= First off its a centrifical Supercharger. Last time i checked my XJ hats to rev hi. So thats strike one. Second you have to remove your A/C. Not sure about you guys but i live in Las Vegas. Its fucking hot. Theirs no god dam why i am ever getting rid of my A/C. No matter hove much more horse Power i will get.

2.KenneBell= They don't even make a kit for us. I emailed on more then once on if they can tune a XJ Computer if i where to get a different SC. Never Emailed me Back. Emailed them again asking if, With some fabing i could take their TJ kit to my XJ. They said No. Just NO. KenneBell would Make TONS OF MONEY. If they would make Their kit work with the XJ. Their Loss. Oh almost Forgot. That going to have the same hood clearance issues as the Avenger does.

3.Avenger SuperCharger= Theirs no tuning to the kit. I don't like adding boost and not having something to help the computer out. I think all they do is add another injector or something. I wish i could get more details but their site is down and when it was up. Really didn't get into deep details about their kit.

Before i drop a HUGE chunk of change on a kit. I want to know everything about it. And lets not forget the Hood Problems. Lets just cut a huge freaking hole in the hood. Again I'm not sure about you guys but in Vegas its dusty, dirty and rains every so often. I don't want a giant hood scoop on my XJ. Thats not the look i am going for and i can probably guess thats not the look alot of other Fellow XJ owners are going for too.

4.BlairBuilt= Now i don't know much about this company. But the use a M62 instead of a M90 Eaton Supercharger. Thats good and bad. Its good cause their kit for the TJ's. Doesn't some with a body lift like the kennebell kit. So who knows I'm might now have hood clearance issues. I highly dought it but it would have the smallest Hood Dent/Scoop/Bugle out of the Positive Displacement SuperChargers. But theirs a bad Part.

Me personally one day my XJ will be a Supercharged 4.6L. I don't care how much money it takes me, (or who long cuz its gonna take time). The M62 is only good for up to 4.0L. So once you start Stroking the motor(i know i laughed too). That supercharger just wont be able to keep up. Also their dam site is down and gone. At least the Avenger Site has a Page saying the site is being overhauled. I don't see anything for Blair. Hell i don't see them returning at all.

5.Hesco= Now like Blair i don't know much about their supercharger. I think its a positive Displacement SC. I am Not sure what brand SC. But Hears what i do know. They don't have a kit for the late Model XJ's. Which means me and my 99XJ and my money will be shopping else where.

Out of 5 Company's. Some good some bad. Not a single Once can make a great kit. And buy great i mean. Either comes with a new comp or you send them your comp to get Flashed. Has all the Fuel Problems all Figured out. ITS DAM Intercooled.( the XJ-armor kit doesn't come withone). Its Complete Bolt on. I really don't like drilling holes in my oil Pan. And fits under my dam hood without having to cut a hole in it. Really is that to much to ask for.

Its not like the XJ is Not Popular or something. Its not like these companies wouldn't make their money back. I don't mind paying extra for a kit that comes with everything even a new intake manifold if need be.

My other car is a srt4. I love the thing. What i love most about it. Is that its boosted. I want the same thing with my XJ. Looks like i am going to have to wait until a good company can step out to the dam plate. Well I'm don't whining now.

Also i cant spell/type/ and do grammar for anything. I didn't join the military cuz i was a A+ student. So before anyone whines Get over it...

 

[j99xj]

Re-engineering how an engine makes power is difficult.

The 4.0, although a great engine, was never meant to be supercharged. (in my opinion)

If it was, Jeep would have made a bolt on kit long ago, (something like Toyotas trd supercharger kit for their little v6).

 

[5-90]

Re-engineering how an engine makes power is difficult.

The 4.0, although a great engine, was never meant to be supercharged. (in my opinion)

If it was, Jeep would have made a bolt on kit long ago, (something like Toyotas trd supercharger kit for their little v6).

Maybe not meant to be supercharged, but you can supercharge any engine you like - if you have the means, you can stuff two atmospheres into a one-lunger Briggs & Stratton designed for 3.5bHP.

If a man designed it, another man can improve it...

5-90

 

[j99xj]

Maybe not meant to be supercharged, but you can supercharge any engine you like - if you have the means, you can stuff two atmospheres into a one-lunger Briggs & Stratton designed for 3.5bHP.

If a man designed it, another man can improve it...

5-90

There are always trade offs. The biggest of which is reliability.

If it can be built, it can be broke.

The best engines to play with boost on are diesel engines because they are already designed to cope with obscene amounts of stress with high compression ratios.

I've seen duramax and powerstroke diesels run fast 1/4 miles on videos from the internet. I have read about 10-12 second diesels.

 

[karter74]

The same could be said for stroking our engine. It wasn't designed for a displacement of 4.5-4.x liters, but you can do it. The best engines to play with boost are ones with low compression, and with a compression ratio of 8.8:1 on the XJ, I would say thats about perfect for forced induction.

 

[5-90]

There are always trade offs. The biggest of which is reliability.

If it can be built, it can be broke.

The best engines to play with boost on are diesel engines because they are already designed to cope with obscene amounts of stress with high compression ratios.

I've seen duramax and powerstroke diesels run fast 1/4 miles on videos from the internet. I have read about 10-12 second diesels.

Very true - and I recall an early Cummins I6 Diesel running at the Brickyard as well - it got a DNF, but it qualified rather well.

Yes, there are trade-offs. The AMC242 wasn't designed for several atmospheres of boost, so I'm not trying to redesign it that way. Nearly any engine cab get up to an atmosphere of boost with careful planning - but that's the catch as well. You can't just go and slap on a blower and expect it to live past the week's end...

5-90

 

[Kittrell]

Not really sure why Hesco is included in this rant? It fits well under the hood, and the kit is pretty damn complete. If Accurate Power was still around, would you whine about that one?

 

[Dr. Dyno]

Hesco have been selling XJ supercharger kits for a long time, and indeed these are the only bolt-on kits available for the XJ. The $4250 asking price is what puts most people off because older Jeeps aren't even worth that much.
Otherwise, the only type of supercharger that'll easily fit under the XJ's hood is a centrifugal, and you don't necessarily have to lose the AC either. There are two options; either relocate the battery and mount the supercharger on the passenger side above the battery tray, or mount it on the driver's side below the PS pump. Whichever route you choose, you're gonna need to make custom mounting brackets and pipes to make it work.

 

[RaiderX7]

I only added Hesco because they dont have a kit for late model XJ's. I thought i made that pretty clear. If the accurate power was around still who know maybe i would wine maybe i woudnt depends if i took a nap or not.

 

[Pharaoh XJ]

I personaly think that an M90 from Ebay + rebuild kit + some fabrication = a cheap (<300 $) and easy setup once someone finds a decent way to fit the SC under the hood I think this might to be more popular than stroking. I have a couple of ideas my self but I live far away and its impossible to find an M90 in Egypt so i dont want to risk shipping it and get stuck with it.

I think all these Kits are expensive for a start I guess that a full DIY setup even with an air/air IC will cost less than 600 $
http://www.bellintercoolers.com/

 

[CanMan]

:rattle: :rattle: :rattle:

Maybe I should add one of these, , so no one get offended. :looney:

 

[Del00XJ]

How about the Universal Kit for the STS Turbo Kit. I'm sure you'd have to do some cutting and what not for lifted trucks but a steady 6psi and the noise of an afterburner would add some fun. They have a clip on the site of a Tacoma blasting through mud with that thing mounted under rear tire.

 

[CanMan]

How about the Universal Kit for the STS Turbo Kit. I'm sure you'd have to do some cutting and what not for lifted trucks but a steady 6psi and the noise of an afterburner would add some fun. They have a clip on the site of a Tacoma blasting through mud with that thing mounted under rear tire.

The problem with a turbo IMO, is when the sucker gets nice and hot, and if you actually wheel and run across some water, more and likley you will end up putting a crack in the housing of the cast part, or the aluminum. Not a good choice for wheelin, but for the street, id go with a Turbo. My .02.

 

[Pharaoh XJ]

When is it right to intercool ?

found this on http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?id=16

Obviously, intercoolers only work with supercharged or turbocharged vehicles where there is a substantial difference in temperature between the air entering the engine and the cooling medium (the intercooler). Because superchargers heat up the air significantly as they compress it, it is possible for there to be a very large temperature difference between the intercooler (ambient air temperature - 80F degrees or so) and the compressed air (200F - 350F degrees). Superchargers with higher boost will create a hotter discharge, so as you increase your boost, the effects of the intercooler become more and more noticable. In general we would not recommend intercoolers on supercharged engines with less than 8-9psi of boost, as the benefits will not be substantial. Essentially, run an intercooler when only when you running peak boost (i.e. any more boost would cause detonation) for the octane of fuel you use. Intercoolers work well in both warm and cool climates and work exceptionally well on marine applications because of the easy access to cold water​

 

[Kittrell]

I only added Hesco because they dont have a kit for late model XJ's.

Always assumed that was just a typo. Off the top of my head, with the exception of electronics, the 4.0 was virtually unchanged from '91-'98, and only got a new intake manifold in '99. Help me out here Dyno, cause I might be missing something. But I see no reason why the Hesco SC couldn't be used for all years of the XJ 4.0. Hell it's listed for the '97 - '04 Wrangler 4.0.

 

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

Also i cant spell/type/ and do grammar for anything. I didn't join the military cuz i was a A+ student. So before anyone whines Get over it

You sound like John Kerry's poster child.

 

[RedHeep]

Re: When is it right to intercool ?

found this on http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?id=16

Obviously, intercoolers only work with supercharged or turbocharged vehicles where there is a substantial difference in temperature between the air entering the engine and the cooling medium (the intercooler). Because superchargers heat up the air significantly as they compress it, it is possible for there to be a very large temperature difference between the intercooler (ambient air temperature - 80F degrees or so) and the compressed air (200F - 350F degrees). Superchargers with higher boost will create a hotter discharge, so as you increase your boost, the effects of the intercooler become more and more noticable. In general we would not recommend intercoolers on supercharged engines with less than 8-9psi of boost, as the benefits will not be substantial. Essentially, run an intercooler when only when you running peak boost (i.e. any more boost would cause detonation) for the octane of fuel you use. Intercoolers work well in both warm and cool climates and work exceptionally well on marine applications because of the easy access to cold water​

A very simple way to try and explain a complex problem. There are a lot more variables involved with intercoolers, including the material it's made of, the size of it, where in the car it's located, the access to an airstream and the efficiency of the intercooler given the temp of the air charge and the ambient air outside.
There are several people running high boost superchargers (15-19psi+) on their MINI's at northamericanmotoring.com and rarely see an intake charge temp over 220 degrees. The MINI is a vehicle specifically designed for an intercooler and lends itself well to modification.
The addition of a high boost supercharger to an XJ creates a very simple problem. Where do you put an intercooler? The front was designed just for a radiator and you can't hang it under the bumper like a honda.

I would think that the $4k you would spend to figure it all out would buy you a pretty nice stroker. Why supercharge a stock 4.0 when you could build one from the ground up with the same power, more reliability and much less of a headache?

 

[tokymon]

Maybe not meant to be supercharged, but you can supercharge any engine you like - if you have the means, you can stuff two atmospheres into a one-lunger Briggs & Stratton designed for 3.5bHP.

If a man designed it, another man can improve it...



try an a.i.r. pump off chevy or for ran off belt on back wheels of go cart with 5 hp brigggs

great fun on back paved roads till i got my licence
lol