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Police shooting. Good shoot or Bad shoot?

After watching both videos, was the officer's shooting justified?

  • Total voters
    64
Trail-Axe said:
The word tactical is spelled correctly. I suppose if one has no testicles, then they may have contempt for those brave men who do. Getting kids hooked on dope, which has caused injury and death, is unnecessary cruelty. If defending the dope dealing sack-less scum of the world is within your ideals of philosophy, then what does that make you?
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I think the brave ones are the ones who try to take them down without shooting them. We have a difference of opinion.
I can think of tens, if not hundreds of situations, where I could have sucked someone into a confrontation and perforated them.
The trick is to get the job done as quietly, proficiently and painlessly as possible. IMO
Don't try to paint me as a drug advocate, nothing could be farther from the truth.
I remember when a mans house was his castle. There were no "No knock laws", then it morphed into no knock when in pursuit of a felon, then into the possibility of a felony being committed inside the house. I just don't agree with the direction of the whole thing. Civil liberties being eroded and ignored.
IMO way to many people (and animals) being shot over bullshit.
It seems fairly obvious, they knew something was in the package. Just seems to me, they could have avoided the drama.
The line between the safety of the Police and public safety is getting kind of blurred IMO.
If you think it's reasonable to live in a society where a dozen cops can knock down your door, endanger your family, destroy your property and then say it was justified for their safety. Feel free, bad choice of words, accept the State is always just and right, is maybe better. They have been known to have the wrong address on more than one occasion.
I've seen the flavor of the month change over the years. From fill the house full of tear gas, through sneak and peak, to rush the door, shoot first and ask questions later.
Is it possible it's time for another metamorphoses? Maybe throw hand grenades or maybe work on process and method a little and figure out some ways safer for everybody concerned.
 
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8Mud said:
The line between the safety of the Police and public safety is getting kind of blurred IMO.

If you think it's reasonable to live in a society where a dozen cops can knock down your door, endanger your family, destroy your property and then say it was justified for their safety.

Don't try to paint me as a drug advocate, nothing could be farther from the truth
Click to expand...

The line is only blurred because your eyes half closed and full of Mud. If one lives by the law, he does not need to fear the law. If one breaks the law, then he should be very much afraid. The police represent the law abiding people of our society. They tread a path into the pit where others fear to go. They lay down their lives, and no one pays them any attention, but the moment they falter, all hell breaks loose.

I think it is reasonable to live in a society were those who violate the law are brought to justice. Those who bring society's wolves to justice should not have to endanger themselves unnecessarily so as to appease the liberal bleeding heart, pot smoking, draft dodging, degenerates our socialist pandering society has produced.

The paint brush is in your hand, if you do not like the picture others see, use another color.
 
Trail-Axe said:
The line is only blurred because your eyes half closed and full of Mud. If one lives by the law, he does not need to fear the law. If one breaks the law, then he should be very much afraid. The police represent the law abiding people of our society. They tread a path into the pit where others fear to go. They lay down their lives, and no one pays them any attention, but the moment they falter, all hell breaks loose.

I think it is reasonable to live in a society were those who violate the law are brought to justice. Those who bring society's wolves to justice should not have to endanger themselves unnecessarily so as to appease the liberal bleeding heart, pot smoking, draft dodging, degenerates our socialist pandering society has produced.

The paint brush is in your hand, if you do not like the picture others see, use another color.
Click to expand...

Ok I'm convinced, shoot them all and let God sort out the guilty ones.

Do you think the Police always obey the law and only do the right thing, are ordained by God and are his instrument?
Law enforcement is a growth industry. Whatever they are doing seems to be working out well...............for them.

The neighbors cat hissed at me this morning, I felt threatened. Shoot. no shoot?
 
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8Mud said:
Ok I'm convinced, shoot them all and let God sort out the guilty ones.

Do you think the Police always obey the law and only do the right thing, are ordained by God and are his instrument?
Law enforcement is a growth industry. Whatever they are doing seems to be working out well...............for them.

The neighbors cat hissed at me this morning, I felt threatened. Shoot. no shoot?
Click to expand...
Quit being ignorant 8Mud. You're wrong and you know it. Resorting to extremes is a sign. No body here has said "shoot them all and let God sort out the guilty ones" or anything like it. I advocate using force to defend your life or the life of an innocent. If the criminal acts as though he's a threat to yourself or others, I see no problem shooting. Yeah, it's always nice if you can take a suspect peaceably but that's not always the case. Take an officer's ability/right to defend himself, more die, fewer join. The people who complain about "unnecessary force" also complain about police taking too long to respond. Manpower is the answer to that one.
 
that story has more than we're seeing. Do you not think it odd, the mayors house, no one knew who it was, a raid that quick by a swat team? I think we are lokin at politics in action. There's somethin fishy in those waters, let's keep a few eyes on it, if we can. If you figure the price of a pound in Texas is over 300$ a pound, you want me to believe that someone sent over 9k$ worth of weed to them as a set up? When I can buy a hundred bucks worth of crack and get them in more trouble? Me thinks I smell a rat. It was shipped to his wife, wonder who the neighbors are, if they wanted to get the smoke before the mayor picked it up. It just is way too much money to "get someone". I truly understand 8's argument, however I also understand that we do not live in a perfect world where everyone plays by the rules.
 
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Darky said:
Quit being ignorant 8Mud. You're wrong and you know it. Resorting to extremes is a sign. No body here has said "shoot them all and let God sort out the guilty ones" or anything like it. I advocate using force to defend your life or the life of an innocent. If the criminal acts as though he's a threat to yourself or others, I see no problem shooting. Yeah, it's always nice if you can take a suspect peaceably but that's not always the case. Take an officer's ability/right to defend himself, more die, fewer join. The people who complain about "unnecessary force" also complain about police taking too long to respond. Manpower is the answer to that one.
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The extreme I was responding to, was the inference that the Police are always right and the criminals deserve whatever they get.
I've done some study on this. A minority is three times more likely to be shot and four times more likely to be injured during an arrest.
Last year, they finally got tired of the L.A. Sheriffs department massaging there reporting numbers and hired an independent auditor (comptroller). The reality and the reporting got so out of tilt that the Sheriff's just plain lost all credibility. And at the same time were reporting (Department of Justice Statistics) a guesstimated 33% of the actual complaints (even the Justice Department said there numbers were unreliable, but they had to accept them or risk not getting any numbers at all). And of the complaints reported 92% of the time the citizen filling the complaint was called a liar. 8% of the complaints were deemed actionable. That's not even counting the non reported incidences, you have to wonder how much of the paper work found it's way into the circular file.
You guys say there is no problem and the Police are just doing what's necessary.
I call B.S. and say something is broke and needs fixing, IMO it's been broke for a very long time.
I remember being pulled over in Florida, two young Cops emptied my ash tray onto the carpet of my car, shining the flashlight in my eyes and asking me where I came from and where I'm going. They said I looked suspicious, I said I'm a tourist and lost. Gave me a warning about about watching the road and not the street signs. At the same time I was listening to gunfire coming from across Tampa Bay, that went on most of the night.
More manpower would just mean more harassment and the shooting just keeps on keeping on.
 
msrorysddad said:
that story has more than we're seeing. Do you not think it odd, the mayors house, no one knew who it was, a raid that quick by a swat team? I think we are lokin at politics in action. There's somethin fishy in those waters, let's keep a few eyes on it, if we can. If you figure the price of a pound in Texas is over 300$ a pound, you want me to believe that someone sent over 9k$ worth of weed to them as a set up? When I can buy a hundred bucks worth of crack and get them in more trouble? Me thinks I smell a rat. It was shipped to his wife, wonder who the neighbors are, if they wanted to get the smoke before the mayor picked it up. It just is way too much money to "get someone". I truly understand 8's argument, however I also understand that we do not live in a perfect world where everyone plays by the rules.
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That's what my line of thinking has been since I read the article the other night.
 
I understand that you had some run ins with the law. I understand they weren't pleasant. I also understand they were some 30 yrs ago almost now. It is also my belief that people who have multiple problems with law enforcement likely brought some of it on themselves. Yeah you'll say you did nothing wrong, they were jerks, etc. I've known a lot of guys who were constantly in trouble and never believed it to be their fault, but I also knew their attitude and it was the type that on a routine stop would get them into trouble.
I don't automatically and unconditionally side with the police, but if there is doubt I will assume innocence until proven guilty, on the part of the cop. He may not be perfect, but he has chosen a career that entails making a stand for law. Whereas the suspect is someone who at best was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but likely did something to arouse suspicion.
 
Darky said:
I understand that you had some run ins with the law. I understand they weren't pleasant. I also understand they were some 30 yrs ago almost now. It is also my belief that people who have multiple problems with law enforcement likely brought some of it on themselves. Yeah you'll say you did nothing wrong, they were jerks, etc. I've known a lot of guys who were constantly in trouble and never believed it to be their fault, but I also knew their attitude and it was the type that on a routine stop would get them into trouble.
I don't automatically and unconditionally side with the police, but if there is doubt I will assume innocence until proven guilty, on the part of the cop. He may not be perfect, but he has chosen a career that entails making a stand for law. Whereas the suspect is someone who at best was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but likely did something to arouse suspicion.
Click to expand...

You are likely correct, my biggest problem was I always thought and still do, I'm there equal and not there minion. I look them in the eye.
I've had some unpleasant experiences since I had my skull fractured 30 years ago, minor but still left a bad taste in my mouth. Funny I can drive for decades around the world and have little or no trouble at all. It seems more geographical than anything I do. I periodically make it back to the States, some cities and other geographical areas I avoid.
I grant you I look like a wolf and seem to raise the testosterone levels in those with small minds.
I ran all over the back roads of Croatia for almost a year, a semi war zone, everybody and his brother had an AK 47. Never got a scratch, got bad mouthed a few times from young punks in uniform, but that was it. Never roughed up or abused. Some places it's endemic, some it isn't.
I think human rights should start at home and then be exported around the world. I think the people that accept Police abuse as a necessary evil, just don't know any better and may think it's the same all over. I think they should get out more and gain some perspective.
Same person, two different locations, regular problems, no problems. It may just be I don't fit in some places, it may be some places are more trouble prone than others.
 
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8, you hit it pretty close when you stated maybe it's your looks. I have either been bald, or worn a Mohawk, have more tattoos than the college crowd (mostly skulls, name in old english on the back of my neck). We gotta remember that others are only human, as we are also. I believe the militarization of our peace officers is a bad thing (combat style clothing, training). I am all for protecting our police, however the training at some academies is an us against them type thing. I know that the Houston p.d. trains under this mentality. I believe there are some whom will answer to nothing but violence, and in some situations that they "deserve what they get" like the young man in the videos in question. I live in a small town and try my best to keep an open dialog with the officers that work for me. You must remember that you speak of other areas of the world. Do people in those areas teach their offspring to flip the cops off, to disrespect them? I know people here that do. Then they wonder why they are treated unfairly? Look at our schools, at the way people treat others on the street. I look like a killer, and still am amazed at the gall of some people that try to push me around, or that try to intimidate me. A lot of people were raised with the mentality that they can do what they want and get away with it. It is not just "the cops" I'll give you a smooth grand to spend a day walking the streets of Houston I pick 'em without gettin your ass kicked by a gang of thugs. Not sayin you're not tough, just sayin too many people do not give a damn about anyone but themselves. The same thugs that would rob/beat/kill you or me, are some of the same that we see the news media get all wound up about. I will say, responsibility, honor, dignity, untill we instill it in our youth we are a doomed society. As for the weed deal, can we check the column that states I would never pick up a package and bring it in my home without knowin what it contained? It still is striking me as odd that the label was addressed to his wife? I used to get things shipped to me and always made sure the label was to a fictitious name. I used to receive a package, put it on the table, if no one kicked my door in I opened it the next day, if I ever got run on I was gonna say I didn't know what it was and was gonna return to sender the next day. (speaking hypothetically)
 
msrorysddad said:
8, you hit it pretty close when you stated maybe it's your looks. I have either been bald, or worn a Mohawk, have more tattoos than the college crowd (mostly skulls, name in old english on the back of my neck). We gotta remember that others are only human, as we are also. I believe the militarization of our peace officers is a bad thing (combat style clothing, training). I am all for protecting our police, however the training at some academies is an us against them type thing. I know that the Houston p.d. trains under this mentality. I believe there are some whom will answer to nothing but violence, and in some situations that they "deserve what they get" like the young man in the videos in question. I live in a small town and try my best to keep an open dialog with the officers that work for me. You must remember that you speak of other areas of the world. Do people in those areas teach their offspring to flip the cops off, to disrespect them? I know people here that do. Then they wonder why they are treated unfairly? Look at our schools, at the way people treat others on the street. I look like a killer, and still am amazed at the gall of some people that try to push me around, or that try to intimidate me. A lot of people were raised with the mentality that they can do what they want and get away with it. It is not just "the cops" I'll give you a smooth grand to spend a day walking the streets of Houston I pick 'em without gettin your ass kicked by a gang of thugs. Not sayin you're not tough, just sayin too many people do not give a damn about anyone but themselves. The same thugs that would rob/beat/kill you or me, are some of the same that we see the news media get all wound up about. I will say, responsibility, honor, dignity, untill we instill it in our youth we are a doomed society. As for the weed deal, can we check the column that states I would never pick up a package and bring it in my home without knowin what it contained? It still is striking me as odd that the label was addressed to his wife? I used to get things shipped to me and always made sure the label was to a fictitious name. I used to receive a package, put it on the table, if no one kicked my door in I opened it the next day, if I ever got run on I was gonna say I didn't know what it was and was gonna return to sender the next day. (speaking hypothetically)
Click to expand...

My son just got busted for paying for an order and delivery (five years ago, I guess the computers were a bit back logged). Dumbarse agreed to pay (wrote a bank transfer) for a package delivered to a third party (mail order marijuana. one guy ordered it, my son payed for it and it was delivered to somebody else). One of his so called buddies asked him for a favor, Blah. Blah, Blah I don't have enough money in my account, I'll give you the cash and you write a check and he actually did it. Cost him $400 in fines. I doubt it was for my son, he lacks the opportunity to get in too much trouble. I keep a pretty close eye on him. His Doctor would tip me off if anything major showed up in his blood or urine. I really doubt he was mixed up in it, more likely he was just a dupe.
I mailed a package for a neighbor, the dumb arse packed German Salami in the package for his aunt in Texas, cost me $350 in fines.
In our family we tell each other if we are expecting a package. If nobody is expecting one, we don't open it, to many book scams and other, if you open it you bought it scams going on.

North Carolina and Tennessee both have a marijuana tax stamp laws on the books. The federal Marijuana tax has been around since 1937. Which seems more productive a tax bill for way more than the drugs are worth or storming the door and killing the dogs.
 
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