muddeprived
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- PA
Thanks. I'll be keeping an eye on it and hopefully come to a solution....
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Misfiring, where to buy injectors?
- Thread starter muddeprived
- Start date
muddeprived
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- PA
I wanted to throw this out there. My recent set of codes were p0303, p0304, and p0300. I got this combo before and I think it was last year. Usually i see the misfire with p0303 but very rarely do I see it with three or 4 codes at once. Does this say anything or point to anything unusual? The heat soak issue normally factors around p0303, the 3rd injector but mine's randomly hitting different injectors over time. I've had a misfire in pretty much all the injectors since I got the jeep.
muddeprived
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- PA
any new ideas?
muddeprived
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- PA
I had to remove the timer to drive the jeep to the store and now the e-fan is not working. It won't turn on at all up to operating temperature.
what did i break now? blow a fuse?
what did i break now? blow a fuse?
muddeprived
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- PA
I tested my fuel pressure cuz I wanted to make sure the pump or loss of fuel pressure wasn't part of my issue. At idle, I have 49 psi and when I turn it off it goes down to 44 and holds steady for the next 5 minutes. I guess this means my pump is fine and i'm not losing fuel pressure.
muddeprived
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- PA
If I were to ditch this difficult delay timer and just wired up a switch in the cab to manually turn on the e-fan, how would I do that?
winterbeater
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Royal Oak, Michigan
It's actually just as hard. You still have to to add a relay. On the other thread we have going for the timer, there is a link to adding the switch too. Then what would you do? Turn off the Jeep and sit for 5 or 10 minutes with the switch on?
Actually, if you are willing to sit with the key in accessory mode with the switch on, we could do it just with a switch in the DB/PK wire. Splice in to that wire, run the wire to a switch, and run a wire from the switch to ground. Because the fan relay trigger side is hot in RUN/ACC key position, it will work. Key in ACC, trip switch, fan runs until you turn it off or the battery goes dead.
Actually, if you are willing to sit with the key in accessory mode with the switch on, we could do it just with a switch in the DB/PK wire. Splice in to that wire, run the wire to a switch, and run a wire from the switch to ground. Because the fan relay trigger side is hot in RUN/ACC key position, it will work. Key in ACC, trip switch, fan runs until you turn it off or the battery goes dead.
muddeprived
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- PA
yeah I saw this thread:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/auxillary-fan-override-switch-write-up-pics-811703/
It shows what you said, wire switch to db/pk and then to ground and you have full control. If I wired up a switch, could I just wire up the timer to switch off the power to the fan after 2 minutes or so? edit: never mind, key has to be ON to work.
Right now my fan is not turning on at all. I let it run to 210 and it stays at 210 but fan never kicks on. I swapped in another relay and fuse for the fan but still not turning on. Did i fry something trying the wire setup that you guys gave me? (this is without the delay timer hooked up, in other words, stock)
Talyn
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Radford, Communistwealth of Virginia
I don't think it turns on until its over 210.
muddeprived
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- PA
You positive about that? I remember my buddy's 01 2 door had the e-fan kick on and off as it idled. I didn't see his temperature though. I just wanna make sure it works before I wire up the delay timer again.
muddeprived
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- PA
4.3L XJ drew this up for me. How's it look?
muddeprived
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- PA
I figured out that my fan is indeed working. If i unplug the thermostat sensor it will kick on. I'm not sure what temperature it usually kicks on at but mine never goes over 210 so I'm guessing over 210?
What if we disconnected the e-fan from the relay and wired it up directly to a switch in the cab and run with an inline fuse. Then wire up the timer to kick on the fan after shutdown. I will also have the option of manually turning on the fan in the cab if needed, like during heavy traffic or off roading. Would this be easier than trying to wire up the timer like we are doing now?
What if we disconnected the e-fan from the relay and wired it up directly to a switch in the cab and run with an inline fuse. Then wire up the timer to kick on the fan after shutdown. I will also have the option of manually turning on the fan in the cab if needed, like during heavy traffic or off roading. Would this be easier than trying to wire up the timer like we are doing now?
If you have the AC on or the heat set to defroster the cooling fan will kick on during idle. It comes on every time the AC clutch kicks on. Otherwise the fan only comes on when it gets above a certain temp (don't remember exactly what that temp is though). If the fan does't come on with the AC clutch there is somthing wrong.
B
B
Taking the relay out of the fan circuit isn't a great idea. It is always best to have as little load on a switch as possible. Let the relay do it's job of switching the current. If you want to be able to turn the fan on manually with a switch, wire it to the coil side of the fan relay. This way the fan will run when you want it to and also when the computer tells it to, the best of both worlds. Plus you retain the OE power circuit to the fan which is correctly wired and protected from the factory.
B
winterbeater
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Royal Oak, Michigan
2000/2001, efan only kicks on above 223F or when AC gas pressure reaches a certain value. Not really automatically on with AC.
I know this is way late in the discussion. I've read through the posts and thought I would add some experiences I have had. I've been having the same issues for years and though I don't know what will fix the problem I have some ideas of what will not.
First lets start with what I have. I have two Jeeps, a 1998 Cherokee and a 2001 Wrangler. Both with the 4.0's, one with a distributor and one without. Both have had intermittent misfire problems.
I'll start with the Cherokee. It has had a problem since new and as a matter of fact is how I found
. When it was new all was well until I shut it off and then soon after restarted it. It would miss really bad and then after a short time go away. I had it at the dealer many times during the warranty period and they could never find a problem. Flash forward to today and the problem appears more often and is not induced only when the Jeep sits for a short time before a restart. Sometimes it happens when it is first started. In the past I have found plug wires jumping spark from the boots. I've replaced plug wires several times and recently with very expensive custom made sets. The problem doesn't go away. I've tried many types of spark plugs. Autolite, Bosch, AC, Champion truck plugs, NGK, Denso, etc, none help. It's funny, spark plugs are the one thing EVERYONE is positive is the problem. The conversation goes,
(friend) What plugs you runnin
(me) xxx brand
(friend) Oh, that's your problem, those don't work in there you need to run xyz
(me) Really, another guy told me those won't work and to try xxx
(friend) He's full of it, I've used xxx and it ran poorly, I switched to xyz and the problem went away
(me) what makes the xyz better
(friend) I have no idea but I know everyone I talk to has the same results
And so it goes, I try xyz to no avail. I'm going to say that IMHO spark plugs have one job to perform and any brand what so ever will do it, period. I'm not saying they are all equal and longevity will vary greatly, but they will all light the fire in the combustion chamber, especially when new. Get the correct type and heat range and they will do the job.
The 2000 is my wife's Jeep and as I said it has pretty much the same problem. Many times though if we replace the plugs the problem does go away for a short time but then reappears. I've never seen any sparking from the plug boots though. On hers I was told that I MUST run NGK's and from my experiences with dirt bikes I knew they worked pretty well, at least from a fouling perspective in a 2 stroke. I put the NGK's in and within 3000 miles we had a misfire in cyl 4 that wouldn't quit. So I bought some Autolites to replace them.
When I pulled them out and got to #4 I was shocked at what I found. The insulator for the electrode had split in half and was floating around in there. Luckily it didn't fall out of the cavity it was in because it could have destroyed cyl 4. Looking closely at the plug it was apparent that it cracked on a casting parting line. I've never seen a plug do this and I will not likley run NGK's again if I don't have to. I'm sure this failure was a fluke but the Jeep didn't run any better with them so why would I pay a premium for an imported plug when I can get US made plugs that work as well and I've never had a physical failure with.
On the 2000 I will note that ever since new plugs have degraded very rapidly. The first set I put in was at like 30,000 miles and they looked like they had 100,000 miles on them. I attribute this to three things, extremely high spark energy, very high combustion chamber temps (not engine temp), and intermittent preignition. I believe this motors are predisposed to detonation and preignition more than other motors. I believe the combination of high spark energy and high cc temps cause the early demise of plugs in these motors. I truly believe the factory should have used platinum plugs at the least in these motors or some other plug type that could deal with these conditions.
I think my '98 has much the same problem but the spark energy of the shared coil is a little lower. I do think the spark leakage from the plug wires is an indication of a still too much spark energy situation though. I'm thinking it is possible that when things are ideal with the plug wires (or the boots insulating properties) there may be cross firing inside of the distributor cap. When time permits I may drill some holes in the cap to watch and see what is going on in there. I've done this in the past on another vehicle and it cleared up a major problem I was having at high RPM. I may also just try running a lower energy coil. I did it once in an emergency but never considered running it like that for an extended period until now.
As I've said my situation at this point is not only relegated to when the motor has had time to heat soak. It happens more than not but not all of the time. I am currently running a 180* t-stat which did not help the misfire situation.
Soon I'm going to pull the 4.0's and drop in a couple of 5.0 V8's. That should solve the problem!
HTH,
B
First lets start with what I have. I have two Jeeps, a 1998 Cherokee and a 2001 Wrangler. Both with the 4.0's, one with a distributor and one without. Both have had intermittent misfire problems.
I'll start with the Cherokee. It has had a problem since new and as a matter of fact is how I found
. When it was new all was well until I shut it off and then soon after restarted it. It would miss really bad and then after a short time go away. I had it at the dealer many times during the warranty period and they could never find a problem. Flash forward to today and the problem appears more often and is not induced only when the Jeep sits for a short time before a restart. Sometimes it happens when it is first started. In the past I have found plug wires jumping spark from the boots. I've replaced plug wires several times and recently with very expensive custom made sets. The problem doesn't go away. I've tried many types of spark plugs. Autolite, Bosch, AC, Champion truck plugs, NGK, Denso, etc, none help. It's funny, spark plugs are the one thing EVERYONE is positive is the problem. The conversation goes, (friend) What plugs you runnin
(me) xxx brand
(friend) Oh, that's your problem, those don't work in there you need to run xyz
(me) Really, another guy told me those won't work and to try xxx
(friend) He's full of it, I've used xxx and it ran poorly, I switched to xyz and the problem went away
(me) what makes the xyz better
(friend) I have no idea but I know everyone I talk to has the same results
And so it goes, I try xyz to no avail. I'm going to say that IMHO spark plugs have one job to perform and any brand what so ever will do it, period. I'm not saying they are all equal and longevity will vary greatly, but they will all light the fire in the combustion chamber, especially when new. Get the correct type and heat range and they will do the job.
The 2000 is my wife's Jeep and as I said it has pretty much the same problem. Many times though if we replace the plugs the problem does go away for a short time but then reappears. I've never seen any sparking from the plug boots though. On hers I was told that I MUST run NGK's and from my experiences with dirt bikes I knew they worked pretty well, at least from a fouling perspective in a 2 stroke. I put the NGK's in and within 3000 miles we had a misfire in cyl 4 that wouldn't quit. So I bought some Autolites to replace them.
When I pulled them out and got to #4 I was shocked at what I found. The insulator for the electrode had split in half and was floating around in there. Luckily it didn't fall out of the cavity it was in because it could have destroyed cyl 4. Looking closely at the plug it was apparent that it cracked on a casting parting line. I've never seen a plug do this and I will not likley run NGK's again if I don't have to. I'm sure this failure was a fluke but the Jeep didn't run any better with them so why would I pay a premium for an imported plug when I can get US made plugs that work as well and I've never had a physical failure with.
On the 2000 I will note that ever since new plugs have degraded very rapidly. The first set I put in was at like 30,000 miles and they looked like they had 100,000 miles on them. I attribute this to three things, extremely high spark energy, very high combustion chamber temps (not engine temp), and intermittent preignition. I believe this motors are predisposed to detonation and preignition more than other motors. I believe the combination of high spark energy and high cc temps cause the early demise of plugs in these motors. I truly believe the factory should have used platinum plugs at the least in these motors or some other plug type that could deal with these conditions.
I think my '98 has much the same problem but the spark energy of the shared coil is a little lower. I do think the spark leakage from the plug wires is an indication of a still too much spark energy situation though. I'm thinking it is possible that when things are ideal with the plug wires (or the boots insulating properties) there may be cross firing inside of the distributor cap. When time permits I may drill some holes in the cap to watch and see what is going on in there. I've done this in the past on another vehicle and it cleared up a major problem I was having at high RPM. I may also just try running a lower energy coil. I did it once in an emergency but never considered running it like that for an extended period until now.
As I've said my situation at this point is not only relegated to when the motor has had time to heat soak. It happens more than not but not all of the time. I am currently running a 180* t-stat which did not help the misfire situation.
Soon I'm going to pull the 4.0's and drop in a couple of 5.0 V8's. That should solve the problem!
HTH,
B
Last edited:
P.S. I thought I would add that two years ago in Moab my '98 was running on 5 cyl's and had a cyl 1 misfire code. We had some time and were trying to pinpoin the problem. We went as far as to remove the fuel rail with the injectors attached. When we cranked the motor all of the injectors were squirting very well. The misfire was very consistent at that time indicating #1 wasn't firing at all. With the way #1 injector was spraying there was no way fuel wasn't getting into the cylinder. This leads me to believe the problem is confined to the ignition system.
B
B
winterbeater
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Royal Oak, Michigan
A lot of good first hand information. I know when the spark plug gaps get too big, it makes wires/caps/etc arc more. I wonder if closing up the gap to like .025 or .030 would help you. It also seems like running a 180 start will make the plugs start to foul out soomer due to longer richer mixture.
The plug gap is a good idea. I'll give that a look when I get time.
The 180* t-stat is something I've done very recently and hasn't seemed to change much in the way the Jeep runs. It does run much cooler now though (180* of course) and I'm pretty happy with that.
B
The 180* t-stat is something I've done very recently and hasn't seemed to change much in the way the Jeep runs. It does run much cooler now though (180* of course) and I'm pretty happy with that.
B
