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Maybe I was wrong about wiretaps and what not. . . .
- Thread starter ZomBrady
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5-90
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Cut and paste? They want a login, and I'm just not interested in the LA Times (besides, I don't watch/read/listen to the news as a rule - it's just too damn depressing...)
5-90
5-90
- Location
- Albuquerque
"CHAPEL HILL, N.C.— University of North Carolina student Stephen Mann has a simple definition for the attack that occurred on his campus last week: terrorism.
He and other UNC students were disturbed to learn this weekend that former UNC student Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar allegedly plowed a sport utility vehicle into nine pedestrians on the busy campus square to "avenge the deaths of Muslims" around the world, according to campus officials.
So Mann, a member of the College Republicans, attended a rally organized by that group and student members of two others Monday morning at the scene of the SUV incident. He and a few dozen students handed out American flags and made off-the-cuff pleas for UNC students to stand united.
But because they also denounced the act as terrorism, the rally emerged as the latest controversy on this multicultural campus over the way language and image are deployed in conversations about Islam.
Mann's group was met at lunchtime by a boisterous, impromptu group of counter-demonstrators who argued that the rally wasn't helping to heal wounds. Especially insensitive, they said, was the insistence on calling the incident terrorism.
"This isn't community building!" a man shouted.
Jonathan Pourzal, an Iranian American, said: "You're strengthening the prejudices people have against Muslim people."
Sara Aghajanian added: "I am an Iranian American, and [the suspect] does not represent me at all, OK?"
Mann, surrounded by about 100 people and a number of news cameras, stood his ground firmly and politely. But in the end, he seemed exasperated:
"OK," he said to the opposing group. "If we don't call it terrorism, what do we call it?"
Such sparring over the semantics of identity politics has long been a staple of life on U.S. college campuses, including UNC-Chapel Hill, one of the nation's top public universities.
But this year, Arab and Muslim issues have been particularly thorny here: In September, a columnist for the Daily Tar Heel, the student paper, wrote an article calling on all Arabs to be "stripped and cavity searched if they get within 100 yards of a newspaper."
Last month, angry students staged two sit-ins at the newspaper after it printed a cartoon depicting the prophet Muhammad. The cartoon by a UNC student was a commentary on the worldwide debate and violent protests that followed a Danish newspaper's publication of cartoons depicting Muhammad.
The SUV incident in the pedestrian zone known as The Pit brought new waves of worry over the timbre of the debate at UNC. For many, Taheri-azar — a former philosophy and psychology major — had made a disquieting transition from the world of ideas to the world of violence.
The alleged attack, freshman Mark Godfrey said, was "very surprising in a place where ideas are usually described in letters to the editor.". . . "
He and other UNC students were disturbed to learn this weekend that former UNC student Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar allegedly plowed a sport utility vehicle into nine pedestrians on the busy campus square to "avenge the deaths of Muslims" around the world, according to campus officials.
So Mann, a member of the College Republicans, attended a rally organized by that group and student members of two others Monday morning at the scene of the SUV incident. He and a few dozen students handed out American flags and made off-the-cuff pleas for UNC students to stand united.
But because they also denounced the act as terrorism, the rally emerged as the latest controversy on this multicultural campus over the way language and image are deployed in conversations about Islam.
Mann's group was met at lunchtime by a boisterous, impromptu group of counter-demonstrators who argued that the rally wasn't helping to heal wounds. Especially insensitive, they said, was the insistence on calling the incident terrorism.
"This isn't community building!" a man shouted.
Jonathan Pourzal, an Iranian American, said: "You're strengthening the prejudices people have against Muslim people."
Sara Aghajanian added: "I am an Iranian American, and [the suspect] does not represent me at all, OK?"
Mann, surrounded by about 100 people and a number of news cameras, stood his ground firmly and politely. But in the end, he seemed exasperated:
"OK," he said to the opposing group. "If we don't call it terrorism, what do we call it?"
Such sparring over the semantics of identity politics has long been a staple of life on U.S. college campuses, including UNC-Chapel Hill, one of the nation's top public universities.
But this year, Arab and Muslim issues have been particularly thorny here: In September, a columnist for the Daily Tar Heel, the student paper, wrote an article calling on all Arabs to be "stripped and cavity searched if they get within 100 yards of a newspaper."
Last month, angry students staged two sit-ins at the newspaper after it printed a cartoon depicting the prophet Muhammad. The cartoon by a UNC student was a commentary on the worldwide debate and violent protests that followed a Danish newspaper's publication of cartoons depicting Muhammad.
The SUV incident in the pedestrian zone known as The Pit brought new waves of worry over the timbre of the debate at UNC. For many, Taheri-azar — a former philosophy and psychology major — had made a disquieting transition from the world of ideas to the world of violence.
The alleged attack, freshman Mark Godfrey said, was "very surprising in a place where ideas are usually described in letters to the editor.". . . "
- Location
- Albuquerque
". . . Some students Monday were wondering what might have made Taheri-azar act as he did.
A number of students said he was a serious student, shy but friendly. Brian Copeland took a history of philosophy class with Taheri-azar and was impressed with his knowledge of classical Western thought — but didn't remember him speaking about Islam. They also worked together at a sandwich shop.
"He was kind and gentle, rather than aggressive and violent," Copeland said.
Just before noon Friday, campus officials said, Taheri-azar pointed a rented Jeep Grand Cherokee at students on the crowded pit and gunned the engine, striking nine. Six were hospitalized for minor injuries and released.
Afterward, Taheri-azar drove the car a short distance, called police and turned himself in, said Capt. Joel Booker of the nearby Carrboro Police Department. Law enforcement officials sent a bomb squad to Taheri-azar's apartment in Carrboro when he insinuated that they might find clues about his actions there. Booker said officials seized a number of items, but he would not identify them.
Taheri-azar was charged with nine counts of attempted first-degree murder and nine counts of felonious assault with a deadly weapon inflicting serious injury with intent to kill. The Orange County Magistrate set bond at $5.5 million. Taheri-azar could face a sentence of more than 100 years in prison.
University officials said Taheri-azar had acted alone.
Ken Lucas, an FBI spokesman, said the bureau had opened an investigation of Taheri-azar, but declined to comment further.
As the rally took place Monday, Taheri-azar appeared at a hearing in a county courtroom, saying he was "thankful for the opportunity to spread the will of Allah," the Associated Press reported.
UNC Chancellor James Moeser condemned the attack in a prepared statement Sunday, calling it a "contemptible act of violence."
"In times like this, it is so important for our community to pull together, remain calm and offer comfort and assistance to one another," Moeser said.
Rally organizer Kris Wampler said he felt vindicated in calling the attack terrorism when he heard of Taheri-azar's "will of Allah" comment.
Counter-protester Khurram Bilal Tariq, 22, said UNC remained an "exemplary" campus for Muslim students. But he was concerned that the cartoon, column and protest showed a "lack of wisdom." " LA TIMES
A number of students said he was a serious student, shy but friendly. Brian Copeland took a history of philosophy class with Taheri-azar and was impressed with his knowledge of classical Western thought — but didn't remember him speaking about Islam. They also worked together at a sandwich shop.
"He was kind and gentle, rather than aggressive and violent," Copeland said.
Just before noon Friday, campus officials said, Taheri-azar pointed a rented Jeep Grand Cherokee at students on the crowded pit and gunned the engine, striking nine. Six were hospitalized for minor injuries and released.
Afterward, Taheri-azar drove the car a short distance, called police and turned himself in, said Capt. Joel Booker of the nearby Carrboro Police Department. Law enforcement officials sent a bomb squad to Taheri-azar's apartment in Carrboro when he insinuated that they might find clues about his actions there. Booker said officials seized a number of items, but he would not identify them.
Taheri-azar was charged with nine counts of attempted first-degree murder and nine counts of felonious assault with a deadly weapon inflicting serious injury with intent to kill. The Orange County Magistrate set bond at $5.5 million. Taheri-azar could face a sentence of more than 100 years in prison.
University officials said Taheri-azar had acted alone.
Ken Lucas, an FBI spokesman, said the bureau had opened an investigation of Taheri-azar, but declined to comment further.
As the rally took place Monday, Taheri-azar appeared at a hearing in a county courtroom, saying he was "thankful for the opportunity to spread the will of Allah," the Associated Press reported.
UNC Chancellor James Moeser condemned the attack in a prepared statement Sunday, calling it a "contemptible act of violence."
"In times like this, it is so important for our community to pull together, remain calm and offer comfort and assistance to one another," Moeser said.
Rally organizer Kris Wampler said he felt vindicated in calling the attack terrorism when he heard of Taheri-azar's "will of Allah" comment.
Counter-protester Khurram Bilal Tariq, 22, said UNC remained an "exemplary" campus for Muslim students. But he was concerned that the cartoon, column and protest showed a "lack of wisdom." " LA TIMES
- Location
- Foresthill, CA
He's a patsy for the Bushies.
The Bushies HATE pedestrians.
I bet they find planted WMD's in the guy's apartment.
Up with violent, radical Islam; down with the Bushies!
The Bushies HATE pedestrians.
I bet they find planted WMD's in the guy's apartment.
Up with violent, radical Islam; down with the Bushies!
5-90
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Well, considering he probably acted solo, and it sounds an awful lot like an impromptu act, how would wiretapping have helped?
And, no matter what the sheeple in the area think, I'd consider it an act of terrorism on a small scale (10 years counterterror/counterdrug goes into that idea.) If other Middle Easterners are saying it "doesn't represent them," then it's their job to make sure it doesn't happen - because, with the whole PC lunatic fringe out there to-day, these communities are going to have to start policing themselves, or we'll give them a reason to complain about "profiling." Don't even get me started on Mineta's decision - profiling may border on wrong for police work - but we're at war now.
Y'ask me, the war between us and the "Islamic Jihad" types is (and has always been!) a war of annihilation. They won't be happy enough to stop unless and until we are eliminated (preferred) or entirely brought to heel - and we can't call it a "win" unless and until we eliminate them all. In my experience, the best way to negotiate with a terrorist is to just shoot them - and put a pork rind or something in their mouth, if you have time (and one is handy.)
Any action like this carried out by Islam, and especially with the "Will of Allah" comment - can't be described as anything but an act of terrorism. If it were a legitimate attack, he'd have gone after a legitimate target - not a batch of unarmed and unsuspecting civilians. Targetting civilians is the act of a terrorist - because they are, at the core, cowards. They don't go after the unarmed to "make a statement," they go after the unarmed because while they're willing to be "martyrs for Allah," they're not in any hurry to go about doing it.
No, it was the act of a terrorist. An impromptu act, so I'd like to hear how wiretapping would have helped. As far as me goes, I'm pretty much permanently in "Condition Yellow" anyhow - the only thing I've got to do is "take off the safety" to turn myself into a counter-weapon. Constant wargaming and "what-if?" is now second nature to me...
5-90
And, no matter what the sheeple in the area think, I'd consider it an act of terrorism on a small scale (10 years counterterror/counterdrug goes into that idea.) If other Middle Easterners are saying it "doesn't represent them," then it's their job to make sure it doesn't happen - because, with the whole PC lunatic fringe out there to-day, these communities are going to have to start policing themselves, or we'll give them a reason to complain about "profiling." Don't even get me started on Mineta's decision - profiling may border on wrong for police work - but we're at war now.
Y'ask me, the war between us and the "Islamic Jihad" types is (and has always been!) a war of annihilation. They won't be happy enough to stop unless and until we are eliminated (preferred) or entirely brought to heel - and we can't call it a "win" unless and until we eliminate them all. In my experience, the best way to negotiate with a terrorist is to just shoot them - and put a pork rind or something in their mouth, if you have time (and one is handy.)
Any action like this carried out by Islam, and especially with the "Will of Allah" comment - can't be described as anything but an act of terrorism. If it were a legitimate attack, he'd have gone after a legitimate target - not a batch of unarmed and unsuspecting civilians. Targetting civilians is the act of a terrorist - because they are, at the core, cowards. They don't go after the unarmed to "make a statement," they go after the unarmed because while they're willing to be "martyrs for Allah," they're not in any hurry to go about doing it.
No, it was the act of a terrorist. An impromptu act, so I'd like to hear how wiretapping would have helped. As far as me goes, I'm pretty much permanently in "Condition Yellow" anyhow - the only thing I've got to do is "take off the safety" to turn myself into a counter-weapon. Constant wargaming and "what-if?" is now second nature to me...
5-90
- Location
- Albuquerque
CRASH said:
and you know that some wackjob is going to say that this was actually perputrated by our own government so that our country will hate the Islamic world even more and that it is just all a big conspiracy against the muslims.. . .
5-90 said:
It was more of a sarcastic, self-depreciating statement about MY previous statements.
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- Location
- Foresthill, CA
SBrad001 said:
I believe this to be true.
Can't wait to tell my friends about this angle when I call them tonight.
I hope the government can't listen to my overseas conversations anymore!
5-90
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Piffle. The Muslim "world" does not need any help being hated - they're doing it to themselves. I just wonder how long it's going to take before we have a WTC on the West Coast - not that I think it would help people start thinking out here, but it would make a logical target.
Meanwhile, I stay out of large buildings and watch the environment around me anyhow.
I've always been of the opinion that violent, radical anything needs to be dealth with - harshly. Not only Islam, but the idea of the radical Christians kiling abortion doctors and burning down clinics, militant vegans, and anyone else that tries to inflict their beliefs upon anyone else. Not to say that they all need to be killed outright - the level of force should reflect the desired result of the "militant extremist" (but it's usually a lethal goal!) but terrorists have a special place in Hell - and I see no reason to stop sending them there. Make sure they have a one-way ticket, and appoint Satan as a tour guide. I'd do the job myself, but I'm not in any hurry to get there (while I don't plan on following terrorists to Hell to avenge myself, they are on my list of things to do when I get there...)
He's only facing a century in prison? I guess the Death Penalty is falling out of favour nearly everywhere... Seems to me to be a case where the needle is called for - after a Last Meal of pork chops (and make sure it all makes the news - we've got to attack these people with their own beliefs... Violence and Islam are really the only thing they understand.)
5-90
Meanwhile, I stay out of large buildings and watch the environment around me anyhow.
I've always been of the opinion that violent, radical anything needs to be dealth with - harshly. Not only Islam, but the idea of the radical Christians kiling abortion doctors and burning down clinics, militant vegans, and anyone else that tries to inflict their beliefs upon anyone else. Not to say that they all need to be killed outright - the level of force should reflect the desired result of the "militant extremist" (but it's usually a lethal goal!) but terrorists have a special place in Hell - and I see no reason to stop sending them there. Make sure they have a one-way ticket, and appoint Satan as a tour guide. I'd do the job myself, but I'm not in any hurry to get there (while I don't plan on following terrorists to Hell to avenge myself, they are on my list of things to do when I get there...)
He's only facing a century in prison? I guess the Death Penalty is falling out of favour nearly everywhere... Seems to me to be a case where the needle is called for - after a Last Meal of pork chops (and make sure it all makes the news - we've got to attack these people with their own beliefs... Violence and Islam are really the only thing they understand.)
5-90
- Location
- Albuquerque
CRASH said:
Dude! I am so serious! There's this hour long 911 video that seriously puts forth the premise that our won government orchestrated 911. From the beginning to the end! All in the name of the military industrial complex! We're talking 'Illuminati' conspiracy type stuff! Wackos. . . .
5-90
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Yeah - no matter what society you're dealing with, you'll always have the lunatic fringe (which seems to be comprised, mainly, of people unable to accept responsibility for their actions - people who should not be allowed in public unescorted and/or unmedicated.) Go figure.
On a side note - if you have the chance, read The Illuminatus Trilogy by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson. It's essentially an 800-page dirty joke - and pokes fun at the whole "conspiracy" idea. Worth the time, y'ask me...
Back on track - Brad, sarcasm doesn't translate well into print. Note the "smilies" on the right of the entry window... Sorry - but had to be said (I'm used to CRASH being a smartass - which is why I'm not going after him (yet) as well...)
Yeah, it's all a conspiracy - the Bavarian Illuminati have taken over, and are using the current scism between the Islamic "world" and the West ("The Last Great Satan," they call us!) to further their own ends... :confused1
5-90
On a side note - if you have the chance, read The Illuminatus Trilogy by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson. It's essentially an 800-page dirty joke - and pokes fun at the whole "conspiracy" idea. Worth the time, y'ask me...
Back on track - Brad, sarcasm doesn't translate well into print. Note the "smilies" on the right of the entry window... Sorry - but had to be said (I'm used to CRASH being a smartass - which is why I'm not going after him (yet) as well...)
Yeah, it's all a conspiracy - the Bavarian Illuminati have taken over, and are using the current scism between the Islamic "world" and the West ("The Last Great Satan," they call us!) to further their own ends... :confused1
5-90
5-90
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Nothing - except that's where the Illumanitus! society got started - so they're more correctly referred to as "the Bavarian Illuminati."
Apart from that, nothing at all - and the Illuminati have long since expanded from within Bavaria...
5-90
Apart from that, nothing at all - and the Illuminati have long since expanded from within Bavaria...
5-90
Gil BullyKatz
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Wiretaps...
Illegal surveillance...
Investigations of US citizens...
The public at large is naive to think it just started with this administration.
Illegal surveillance...
Investigations of US citizens...
The public at large is naive to think it just started with this administration.
5-90
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No, it didn't. People were just as "wide-awake" forty years ago as they are now.
Lord Sir Maynard Keynes once said, "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." What he forgot to mention was the conclusion to the thought - "Power attacts the corruptible."
I'll go on record saying - as long and as often as you want - that the best person for handling any sort of "power" in the political sense is someone who does not want it. Voting for someone who is looking for the job is usually asking for trouble...
"Spirit of '76 - re-elect nobody!"
5-90
Lord Sir Maynard Keynes once said, "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." What he forgot to mention was the conclusion to the thought - "Power attacts the corruptible."
I'll go on record saying - as long and as often as you want - that the best person for handling any sort of "power" in the political sense is someone who does not want it. Voting for someone who is looking for the job is usually asking for trouble...
"Spirit of '76 - re-elect nobody!"
5-90
- Location
- Westminster, SoCal
LOL, you couldn't be more rightGil BullyKatz said:Wiretaps...
Illegal surveillance...
Investigations of US citizens...
The public at large is naive to think it just started with this administration.
I work on designing and building systems that do just that and the company that I work for existed way before the time of the first Bush
Gil BullyKatz
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- 2003UB313 Planet ERIS
Cell phone intercepts and triangulation were used back in the 80's when I was in the Army...
I forget the name of one of Colombia most wanted druglords that was tripped up thinking it was "secure communication"
Do a search for "Pablo Escobar" and Project echelon...
or try a search for Carnivore...
I forget the name of one of Colombia most wanted druglords that was tripped up thinking it was "secure communication"
Do a search for "Pablo Escobar" and Project echelon...
or try a search for Carnivore...
WTF???
in the following link, there is an audio clip of the 911 call where he turned himself in.
phone call
This guy is seriously messed up and i hope they put him away for many lifetimes. He elected to defend himself, so hopefully he won't get off as "mentally incompetent to stand trial' or whatever other BS good lawyers will pull out in these situations.
in the following link, there is an audio clip of the 911 call where he turned himself in.
phone call
This guy is seriously messed up and i hope they put him away for many lifetimes. He elected to defend himself, so hopefully he won't get off as "mentally incompetent to stand trial' or whatever other BS good lawyers will pull out in these situations.
5-90
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Save yourself the trouble - go to the Electronic Freedom Foundation (www.eff.org, I think.)
Do bear in mind that the United States has been in a declared State of Emergency since 1932 or 1933 - the Great Depression. Franklin Delano Roosevelt declared a "time of National Emergency" in response to it - which allowed him to get away with things like the Bank Holiday, and the suspension of the Constution required to rescind the Gold Standard for the dollar, and it was never declared "over."
Try looking up Executive Emergency Powers or the War Powers Act, and see what that gets you. Did you know that in a time of National Emergency, the President can suspend the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 (try looking that one up?) That the Constitution can actually be suspended and held in abeyance for the duration of the National Emergency? Or that the President may take action, and be answerable to no one at all?
There's a lot to Federal Law that the Administration would prefer we didn't know anything about - but we damn well should. Do a little digging - it ain't illegal... yet.
Here's another one - it's actually possible to pass a Federal law without holding a vote on it. Try combining Congress and either "Federal Register" or "Congressional Register" as search terms, and see what you get.
And people wonder why I just can't bring myself to trust politicians - the ones that aren't tripping over their penises are trying to figure out how to cut ours off...
The worst part of it all - anarchy could work, if the Social Contract were still in force. I'd prefer it - at least then, you don't have to worry about anyone taking over as "President for Life..."
5-90
(Post scriptum "Anarchy." It's not actually the "absence of order," it is actually "the absense of external authority." It's quite possible to have an orderly anarchy, ruled only by the "social contract," and have a thriving society. This would be the ultimate goal of convervative libertarianism.)
Do bear in mind that the United States has been in a declared State of Emergency since 1932 or 1933 - the Great Depression. Franklin Delano Roosevelt declared a "time of National Emergency" in response to it - which allowed him to get away with things like the Bank Holiday, and the suspension of the Constution required to rescind the Gold Standard for the dollar, and it was never declared "over."
Try looking up Executive Emergency Powers or the War Powers Act, and see what that gets you. Did you know that in a time of National Emergency, the President can suspend the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 (try looking that one up?) That the Constitution can actually be suspended and held in abeyance for the duration of the National Emergency? Or that the President may take action, and be answerable to no one at all?
There's a lot to Federal Law that the Administration would prefer we didn't know anything about - but we damn well should. Do a little digging - it ain't illegal... yet.
Here's another one - it's actually possible to pass a Federal law without holding a vote on it. Try combining Congress and either "Federal Register" or "Congressional Register" as search terms, and see what you get.
And people wonder why I just can't bring myself to trust politicians - the ones that aren't tripping over their penises are trying to figure out how to cut ours off...
The worst part of it all - anarchy could work, if the Social Contract were still in force. I'd prefer it - at least then, you don't have to worry about anyone taking over as "President for Life..."
5-90
(Post scriptum "Anarchy." It's not actually the "absence of order," it is actually "the absense of external authority." It's quite possible to have an orderly anarchy, ruled only by the "social contract," and have a thriving society. This would be the ultimate goal of convervative libertarianism.)
Gil BullyKatz
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- 2003UB313 Planet ERIS
5-90 said:
Which is exactly why I find it humorous when people get all riled up and angry and rush to the defence of the political party of their choice...
Lessor of two evils folks...
