Kel-tec

[TUFFXJ]

Well....2 jams in 250 rounds...let me say what everyone was hinting at, but didn't want to offend anyone, the Kel-Tec is garbage!!! I would rather be armed with a high quality .22 in the same price range. 1) While caliber is important, shot placement is #1. 2) The mere sight of a handgun will end 99% of confrontations. 3) For 350.00 bucks you can find a nice police trade in that was well maintained...
Just my thoughts......

To each his/her own I have carried alot of all the brands and I feel as prepared as with any other CC handgun (other than the caliber) with my little 7oz 6+1 kel-tec. Also if they were such garbage why do most departments have them as autherized BUG and off duty guns??
And 2 "Jams" in a barnd new gun (within the first 24 rounds)is not uncommon at all, my Sig 226 did the same so did my Glock 21.

Carry what you feel comfortable with and have TRAINED WITH if you push the reliability thing carry a little .38 snub and just keep pulling the trigger if it doesn't go bang. (Rosi, Taurus, S&W, Colt all make some really nice CC revolvers) ALL autos are more prone to failures due to the inconsistency in ammo from different manufactures

 

[TUFFXJ]

Yup.

Just pitchin' ya crap for the 'ANYONE' statement.

Wish I lived in AZ.

Don't sweat it I saw the purpose as intended

 

[AZ DESERT RAT]

Yeah..AZ is awesome when it come to gun laws....I have the USP .40 as well, just doesnt fit my hand as well as my 226. I really want to try one of the new HK's,they seem to have rounded them out,taken off the hard edges...as far as concealed carry goes, I have a Sig 239...it was tough choice between that and the G27..but at 6'5", 275 the G27 was a tad bit to small...

 

[Stick]

being a cop and all, and knowing the ballistics of a 9mm...its crap. The 9mm was designed to wound because the makers figured in battle, if you shoot someone and wound them, it takes two more out of battle to carry the wounded or help them move.

This is all well and good but for self defense, I would go no smaller than a .40 cal, preferably a .45 acp. And if you shoot someone and maim them with a pissy little round they are just going to sue the hell out of ya....

We had a deputy in our county that shot a guy 7 times with a 9mm...didnt do any thing but blow his penile appendage off. You know...he sits to piss now.

take it or leave it....

:lecture:

 

[AZ DESERT RAT]

Don't want to come off like an ass...but, maybe if the deputy had shot the man in the chest..it wouldnt have taken 7 rounds. I think he would have had the same results with any caliber shooting someone in that (area) LOL.

 

[AZ DESERT RAT]

On a second note....speaking small bullets...the .357 is the same diameter as the 9mm...and these have proven to be reliable man stoppers...at 1400 fps. I carry Winchster Ranger 127gr +p+...about 1250 fps. What are your thoughts on that....

 

[TUFFXJ]

On a second note....speaking small bullets...the .357 is the same diameter as the 9mm...and these have proven to be reliable man stoppers...at 1400 fps. I carry Winchster Ranger 127gr +p+...about 1250 fps. What are your thoughts on that....

Again its all about shot placement. While I was in the Corps the weapon of choice for covert ops with out recon group that didn't want to be heard was a ruger .22...as to the guy with a 9mm I agree had he been drilled center mass he wouldn't be sitting at all he would be lieing. The .357 has the highest one shot stop of all the defensive rounds and a good 110 grain cor-bon in a snubby is a GREAT BUG/Offduty choice but the lightest one I have found is the Total TI from Taurus and it is still 16oz and not "small" by any means. With the right clothes you can carry anything concealed but in the middle of summer here in AZ an Glock 27 becomes a tank.

Given the right circumstances I carry something larger as well but even if I have a service size cal on me I still have my little .380. I carry 95grain Silver tips that have a average of 1000fps and about 220 ft/lbs at 25yds Not a lot but I know if I needed something it would do its job and with a small caliber like that I would never just let one round off, I always practice double taps center mass with it. Even the BEST handgun is no good if you have to put it under to many layers to get to it. Now if we get into open carry thats a whole new ballgame and my Colt Commander with a .45 super convertion is my open carry choice

 

[Fergie]

I'll toss in another vote for the Tomcat, not from direct experience, but from watching my father carry one for many years now. The only time someone else will know that he is carrying is after hes got about 3 shots off.

For me, I could only afford one pistol at the time, so it had to be able to be concealed well, and had to work for home protection. I went with the 650SS, and so far, it has worked just fine for me.

Fergie

 

[Dragon_Fly]

not much of a glock person... last time i tested out glocks they sucked. maybe thats different these days... I like using the SigSauer P220. My side arm of choice while serving in the military was a .45. Firing that weapon is like second nature. It feels very comfortable and natural.

Family home protection? Hmmm....... How about a shotgun. Nothing to think about just Point and fire. Can be easily fired at waist. Less of a chance of wall penetration. Can be loaded with less evasive materals that can also administer more pain. In a dark house nothing is as scary as a woman with a shotgun and then you hear, "chkkk-ckkk".

 

[RichP]

My only complaint is about whether parts will be available in 10 years. Back in the 70's uncle sam gave me an issue 1911 to carry concealed. I wanted something smaller so I bought an Astra Constable figuring I would be pretty safe as astra has been around forever, sadly to say I broke an ejector after too many hot rounds and there were no longer any parts avaliable from the manufacture. Garcia bought them about a year after I bought the constable. Finally ended up finding one thru shotgun news but it took me over two hours to fit the darn thing, it was from either a new or older one, still frustrating..

 

[Stick]

Don't want to come off like an ass...but, maybe if the deputy had shot the man in the chest..it wouldnt have taken 7 rounds. I think he would have had the same results with any caliber shooting someone in that (area) LOL.

Maybe if the guy hadnt been shooting at him, he could have gotten a better aim...ya think ? :hang:

 

[copperhead]

imma honkey wrote:

As for the C/C laws, to carry on person or in the glove box/console, here in GA you HAVE to have a C/C licence. Otherwise, it must be placed on the passenger seat or in the back UNLOADED.

When did this go into effect? When I lived there, the state considered you car an extentioin of your home. The law was "2 movements" to retrieve a loaded pistol. Loaded in in a holster in the glovebox was ok w/o a CC. I had a CC back then too though.

FWIW, my favortite cc weapon was a S&W mod65 3" full lug (yes even in Atlanta summers) and a 22mag hi-standard derringer (talk about concealable). I have owned a Ruger KP94, Glock21(13 shots .45, but never felt right in my hand), Makarov, and a .40 Browning Hi-Power. I have shot many more. I still prefer revolvers.

Just make sure you shoot and are comfortable with the gun you choose. I started off with my revolver and got caught up in the auto hype. Tried a few, but with the exception of the Hi-power and Makarov, they just didn't feel right. Not that the auto's weren't shootable, I just shoot better with my wheelguns.

 

[TUFFXJ]

Maybe if the guy hadnt been shooting at him, he could have gotten a better aim...ya think ? :hang:

I believe (Maybe) the point is that no matter what Caliber is used if you do not get a good center mass/head shot even a .454 Casul would be ineffective at stopping someone.

 

[StuckXJ]

What if you are muged by a guy in kevlar... You need a desert eagle .50 cal. How much is your life worth, armor piercing

 

[falcon556]

On a second note....speaking small bullets...the .357 is the same diameter as the 9mm...and these have proven to be reliable man stoppers...at 1400 fps. I carry Winchster Ranger 127gr +p+...about 1250 fps. What are your thoughts on that....

I use 115gr Ranger +P+ or Cor Bon.
My gun of choice is the Kahr PM9 because size and weight do matter.
I also use a Glock 26 as a car gun and a Walther TPH 22 for those days that you just can't wear the clothes you'd like.
A 22 in the pocket is better than a 44 at home.

 

[vwkaferman]

Just be careful about where you store your weapons whilst driving, ESPECIALLY across state lines. Some states do not honor other states gun laws, for instance, it may be ok to carry in such a fashion in State A, but State B it may not, and it's considered a felony unless you have a Concealed Weapons Permit (CWP).

I *think* in Arizona, you can carry it anywhere in the car, as long as it's in the "trunk", and the ammo is seperate, unless you have a CWP. On a side note, it's ok to walk down the street in AZ with a Gun on your hip, with a clip in with rounds, but if you sit down in your vehicle and drive away, with the gun in the same position, it's illegal.

I've been doing quite a bit of research for my own sake at least for AZ, and seriously thinking of getting a CWP, to keep my ass out of Jail. Remember, if you get a felony conviction, it could possibly PREVENT you from ever carrying again. Thank the anti-gun lobby.

James

 

[falcon556]

Just be careful about where you store your weapons whilst driving, ESPECIALLY across state lines.

James

I have a CWL which is recognized by many states and it is getting better every day as more states recognize each others licences.

 

[Eagle]

www.packing.org

Concealed carry permits from some states are worth a LOT more than concealed carry permits from other states. I don't think there is any state that recognizes ALL other states' permits (maybe one, but I don't think so), but VT and AK allow concealed carry without a permit. A few states still don't allow concealed carry at all.

Do your homework if traveling. And remember that the Firearms Owners Protection Act (the law that allows you to carry a gun through a state where you don't have a permit) means THROUGH not "to." I can legally drive through New York state with a handgun locked in a case, unloaded, in the luggage area of my XJ. If I stop to have lunch with Art Triggs in NY, I can be arrested.

 

[pdharrin]

Just my .02 about the Kel-Tec--If you get the P-11, make sure to use a 15rnd mag otherwise its hard to hold onto the thing. Also, if you use hollow tip or "hydroshock" type rounds, the loading ramp may need to be massaged a bit for smooth action. I like mine, though of course not as refined as a glock, it does the job and I never really had problems with it. I got mine for protection from crack heads and "gangsters" when I used to fix up repossessed houses. Every once in awhile, some (obvious) addict would come by looking for the previous residents, even though they had been gone for months, really creepy people. While I'm sure my framing hammer could have gotten the job done, it's not as long range as a gun. Luckily, I never had to show it.

 

[karstic]

a fullsize HK USP in .40.