Home Fabbed Bumper

[Tim_MN]

The clevis mount should be a part of the bumper mounting bracket so the forces of the pull transfer to the frame area rather than to the face of the bumper. Those cable clamps will pull right off, snap into pieces, or the face of the bumper will pull loose.

Pin type D-rings are a no-no also. You should only be using screw type D-rings

If your welder isn't up to the job, tack it all together and take it to a welding shop and have them burn in rest of the welds.

 

[HaZakated]

At least his bumper has a legit dring mount.
Remind me to never be around you when you attach a strap to those clamps.

Believe me..You wont ever have to worry about us being together ever. I only wheel with people who are not scared of a cable clamp.

 

[HaZakated]

The clevis mount should be a part of the bumper mounting bracket so the forces of the pull transfer to the frame area rather than to the face of the bumper. Those cable clamps will pull right off, snap into pieces, or the face of the bumper will pull loose.

Pin type D-rings are a no-no also. You should only be using screw type D-rings

If your welder isn't up to the job, tack it all together and take it to a welding shop and have them burn in rest of the welds.

I do not wish to test this....I am a broke dude and this is my only bumper; however, I think you are wrong. I think the energy will still transfer to the frame. I don't think the energy will be enough to shear the cable clamp apart. There is a point where this system will fail, but I think you are underestimating where that point is. This is coming from a dude who has used the minimum his who life and managed just fine.

 

[HaZakated]

Look...I'm done with this. Some of you people are acting like you are sure this cable clamp will fail, but you do not know for sure. Just like I do not know that it won't fail.

Honestly....I don't care if it fails. The probablilty of it hurting anyone in the event that it fails is about as probable as being killed by a Sting Ray.

If you feel the need to continue bashing me because of a possible flaw in a design I don't even like (if you read the entire thread), then waste all the time you want.

I will not post again to this thread.

For those of you who would like any information on any designs, sorry.

 

[locoind]

Ok, Im obviously new, this is probably only my second post. And I've only owned my XJ for a month. But I've been reading this board quite a bit, and I've began to understand a few things. I know you feel like everyone's bashing your idea, an idea you don't even like. But they're not attacking you, it's not personal. It's the integrity of the sport, and safety. I've found very few people have a good delivery on their opinions when it comes to these things. But to go along with that, the people getting "bashed" misunderstand what direction it's coming from.
I don't know the techinical data on a cable clamp. I know it's designed to hold things together tightly, not have forces jerked against them. You say thats all you could afford. Money being tight is always an issue when hobbies are involved. But your projecting the start of a new company, what kind of company attitude are you protraying(sp?)??
shouldn't you be over engineering, then backing off little by little. Not starting at the bottom, then increasing little by little. People honestly care, they are arrogant about it, but no one wants to read the "look what happened to this guy" thread, because someone couldn't afford a safer way.
All for now, going back to researching. And for what's it's worth, good luck on the company, it's always exciting in the beginning.
Troy

 

[recycledxj]

Honestly nobody is trying to put you down. But just an ideal go to a auto parts store buy some tow hooks they are what 15 bucks a piece and bolt them to something. But most people are giving there ideals on the fact of how much experience they have, cause it looks like everybody that posted something either seen are heard of something failing do to poor design. For example myself, I watched a guy use his rear axle on a F-250 (pretty stout stuff from the factory) for a tow point and managed to rip the axle out of under neth the truck, I will have to get some pictures of my bumbers and a few my friend makes and show you you dont have to put alot of money into something to make it strong. My front tube bember probaly has less 40 dollars of steel into it( I think the d rings cost more) and I can fight trees and rocks with it all day long...

 

[Ben H]

I have to concur.

 

[DirtyMJ]

I can't say I'm suprised by how this thread went.

 

[WB9YZU]

Look...I'm done with this. Some of you people are acting like you are sure this cable clamp will fail, but you do not know for sure. Just like I do not know that it won't fail.

Honestly....I don't care if it fails. The probablilty of it hurting anyone in the event that it fails is about as probable as being killed by a Sting Ray.

If you feel the need to continue bashing me because of a possible flaw in a design I don't even like (if you read the entire thread), then waste all the time you want.

I will not post again to this thread.

For those of you who would like any information on any designs, sorry.

I don't get it. The CAD drawing showed a perfectly acceptable bolt on D-Ring arrangment, then you switched to this cable clamp thing. What happened? :dunno:

I personally would not trust the cable clamp. Most are not even grade 5 hardware, and they are use in a completely different application where strength is not a factor. The application you are using them in can experience very high side loads and extreme forces that may pull the u-bolt out of the nuts or fail completely. The price of failure of this part can be someones life, and for what, saving $10 each?

I see you posted you are starting a company, but you're low on bucks.
I would think that would be even more reason to use accepted practices when building your product. After all, if you use a u-bolt cable clamp when people told you not to, you could be held criminaly negligent for any damages resulting from the use of your product.

On the Pin Clevis. These are generally used in Farm applications, but almost never used on the trail. Infact, many Clubs and Associations prohibit their use.
The reason is this: If they are not used properly, the clevis could be pulled so that the only thing which is holding the whole mess together is a hair pin in shear.
I have not seen an instance of a failure, and sometimes, I will use a pin clevis if it is the only thing available.

Folks are just trying to help, I'd listen

 

[Matt S.]

I stayed out of this from the beginning... but I can tell you from experience after doing FarmBoy Designs that if your going to TRY to sell that interestingly set up bumper, you better have some insurance to back it up. Cuz your ass will be in a lawsuit or be paying many customers back after it kills someone.

Of course, I dont know what I am talking about.. sorry.

 

[vetteboy]

OK, yeah you're not posting in this thread anymore. I'm going to bet that you're still going to read it anyway.

Cable clamp hardware is shitty steel meant to be loaded in tension only, said tension coming from the two nuts on either half of the u-bolt portion. I gotta say, I admire the enginuity to come up with that idea, because I've never seen that before. And I've seen a lot of weird stuff on the internet.

The thing is, why bother? Why not extend the bumper mounts through, and get a good solid weld on two faces of material? Why risk a shitty metal in a loading that's bound to be eccentric and dynamic? I realize that this bumper is a prototype, that it's not the final product that your company will be producing...but first impressions are the lasting ones, and right now, that's a goddamn awful thing to see.

So forgetting that, and recognizing that this bumper is just a trial piece to see how your XJ fabrication goes...why are you resorting to ANSYS to make the mounts for this thing? Do them in 3/16", or go 1/4" and be well ahead of the shearing strength of the stock mounts. What's there to analyze here? Dozens of companies and hundreds of people have made their own bumpers, and their own mounts. There's nothing innovative in this business and you're certainly not going to save money by repetitive FEA work, only to figure out that a .1743" mount is the optimum thickness.

Being a mechanical engineer myself, I wholly support the analysis and testing phase...but from an economic standpoint, there's a lot of tradeoffs involved. There is nothing wrong with using established structural steel sections for the main bumper construction, and there are very few people willing to pay the premium for a formed sheetmetal shape with fancy laser-cut logos. There are many designs on the market that work, that have been proven to work, and that are used almost universally through the XJ aftermarket crowd. The only way I see your idea being a profitable endeavor is if you've got the volume to support the non-standard formed sections and custom-thickness mounts.

My advice? Use as much standard hardware as possible. Stock thicknesses, stock sections, and be creative in your implementation of these things. The XJ aftermarket bumper market is small, and that market is so flooded at this point that you better be doing something extremely innovative if you want a startup company to succeed. And cable-clamp D-ring mounts are not gonna cut it.

As an aside....you missing the fact that most bumpers incorporate the steering box bolts as a reinforcement for the steering rather than more pulling strength does not lend to your credibility as an XJ aftermarket provider. Run all the ANSYS you want (and I'd be interested to see your loading and constraints), but you're not gonna get the dynamic loads from a steering setup accurately modeled.

Sorry for the negative attitude...I appreciate what you're trying to do, but I think we're just trying to save a lot of headaches and trouble for everybody.

 

[PornstaR]

I stayed out of this from the beginning...

Im some no-body hillbilly and I did just the same thing.......... stayed out of it but man this has gone too far.................

- Ok bro no ones "bashing" your idea but yet letting you know that cable clamps are called cable "CLAMPS" for a reason. They clamp not pull. The tinsel strength of a clamp is very low. They are not designed to be pulled a part. As for the amount of bolt you use on your brackets its not the strength of the bolts but the load dropped on each one to be torn though the thin sheetmetal on the chassis. Think of this................. : 1 bolt with 100lbs of pressure or 10 bolts with 10lbs of pressure. Kinda basic math. More bolts less stress on each one. And as for the pins you used. Why not use the stock pin that comes with the shackles??? Just a thought

 

[roscoecoltraine]

Believe me..You wont ever have to worry about us being together ever. I only wheel with people who are not scared of a cable clamp.

Are you guys seriously fighting about cable clamps and d-rings? Fighting over the net is like the special olympics, no matter who wins, your still retarded.

 

[vetteboy]

Are you seriously arguing that it's a good idea?

 

[PornstaR]

Are you seriously arguing that it's a good idea?

Ah hes prolly just one of those cats that still uses chains too. Cable clamps and a 20 foot chain........................... you do the math!!:firedevil

 

[twisted_ed]

I'm with the guy up top, it is an ingenious idea, that is has not been done before, and cable clamps are used on cables that can have more weight than a cherokee applied to it (assuming the correct size of cable is used) but cable clamps are designed to hold cable together in the opposite direction thought the hole, not the way he has them therefore the threads in the nuts and the threads on the clamp are the only thing that is holding it together, I would suggest you weld them to the bumper for safety.. but why not do what the other dude said, simpley make new mounts for the bumper that extend through the bumper and drill and put shackles in the ends, cut slots in the bumper, slip it on and weld both front and rear of the bumper and you know have super strong tow points since they are pulling directly on the frame and not the bumper (which can casue the bumper to bend.) Plus I have found it makes fitment of the bumper easier, cause you can get that bumper nice and close to the body.

 

[seanR]

I'll pipe in here....
First, no one is arguing on the internet here, we are trying to keep everyone safe!
Secondly, You can not compare the stress put on a properly installed cable clamp to the stress put on a D-ring shackle during a winch pull.
Apples and oranges.
A cable clamp uses the friction applied to the cable to hold it in place, there is almost no stress put on the clamp except what is preloaded by the nuts.
During a winching opreation, there might be two or three times the weight of the jeep being applied to the D-ring.

You would not pass tech with that set up.

Please, no one is picking on you, we are here to help you, we don't want to see anyone hurt or killed enjoying our sport.

Please rething your idea.

Thanks, Sean

 

[Cornflake]

Are you guys seriously fighting about cable clamps and d-rings? Fighting over the net is like the special olympics, no matter who wins, your still retarded.

i'll have to use that for my sig for awhile

 

[88rockxj]

when starting a business

rule #1 DONT advertise youre going to start a business untill you already have started the business

rule#2 dont disagree with the majority of your customer base

you want to seriously start a business selling xj products? change the name of your company if youve realeased it already, change your screen name, change your design. good luck :cheers:

 

[2xtreme]

Fighting over the net is like the special olympics, no matter who wins, your still retarded.

That has to be one of the most ignorant things I have heard in a long time!!!

i'll have to use that for my sig for awhile

at least until I read this!!!!

Grow up and thing about what you just wrote.

Michael