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FRAM Oil Filters

Alienspecimen said:
I guess I should apologize to the forum as I thought I am being helpful. I just wanted to report my findings and not start a discussion. I know about the FRAM bashings in the past, but my report was on the FRAM EXTENDED GUARD specifically, which lasts 7500 mi (according to the box).
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Don't feel bad, Fram has some stuff that I would not touch, take the teflon loaded filters as an example, nothing like some teflon cycling thru your lube system considering that Dupont itself has said it is not to be used in IC engines but they did it anyway.
 
RockTracXJ said:
I used to use Fram's on all my cars. Why? Cause my old man did. But after reading this study, I'll never use another one. Even told the old man to stop using them.
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Fram today is not your old man's Fram. A few years ago they were owned by Allied Signal which also had Bendix Brakes (probably on your xj) and a few other things, before that who knows and later were bought by QuakerState/Pennzoil and they are a Honeywell subsidiary now (I do not know if QS/PZ is Honeywell too). My $.02 says quality was higher in the past and they later went for cheap end. As far as Wix made by Honeywell and no longer DANA, if thats misinformation its courtesy of PartsPlus employees. Their dimensions do seem to look the same as Fram whearas with others the entry/exit ports have different sizes, shape and offset.
 
Matthew Currie said:
Have that boy stay after class. :lecture:

Full flow systems are gauged AFTER the filter. Poor flow through the filter will cause the pressure to drop, not rise, until the backup is severe enough to open the bypass. More pressure at the gauge means more pressure going through the filter.

That said, it's true that you can have too much of a good thing. Putting heavy oil in to get pressure up may result in less flow, thus less cooling of bearings. You're probably best off using the lightest oil you can trust to maintain adequate pressure. But assuming the same oil, the filter that delivers the best pressure is delivering the most flow too.
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Man, I hate to admit I'm wrong, but...

In the past, I've stared at the drawing of the oil passages in the factory service manual, trying to determine if the oil pressure sending unit is upstream or downstream of the filter. From the drawing, I was unable to tell.

If a filter like the Mobil 1, which I've read has a pressure drop of 4 to 5 psi, increases pressure at the guage, it would be logical to expect the sending unit to be upstream of the filter. Looking at the service manual tonight, the troubeshooting guide states that a clogged filter will cause a drop in oil pressure. This obviously supports what you're saying and would indicate that the sending unit would be downstream of the filter. My statement is technically correct, but not based on the indicated pressure of the system at the guage.

Even us old farts can learn a thing or two here at NAXJA :twak:
 
Alienspecimen said:
I use Mobil1 oil filters, but for the last oil change did not get a chance to buy it on time and stuck in FRAM Extended Guard instead. What a mistake. It is not even as half as good as they claim on the box and is not even a tenth as good as the Mobil1, despite being priced similarly. Don't waiste your money on it.
Boris
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so true, i just did the reverse. always had used fram, wondered why my oil pressure would drop at times, switched to synthetic and mobil 1 filter and all is good
 
MaXJohnson said:
Man, I hate to admit I'm wrong, but...

In the past, I've stared at the drawing of the oil passages in the factory service manual, trying to determine if the oil pressure sending unit is upstream or downstream of the filter. From the drawing, I was unable to tell.

If a filter like the Mobil 1, which I've read has a pressure drop of 4 to 5 psi, increases pressure at the guage, it would be logical to expect the sending unit to be upstream of the filter. Looking at the service manual tonight, the troubeshooting guide states that a clogged filter will cause a drop in oil pressure. This obviously supports what you're saying and would indicate that the sending unit would be downstream of the filter. My statement is technically correct, but not based on the indicated pressure of the system at the guage.

Even us old farts can learn a thing or two here at NAXJA :twak:
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It can be confusing, especially if you're an old enough fart to remember bypass and other systems that are not full flow, because the gauge is placed differently there. But if you think about it, it has to be this way, because downstream is the only location that gives true information about what pressure is reaching the engine. It would be counterintuitive to have an increase in pressure as things get worse. That's especially true if it's an idiot light, which only registers a warning when pressure goes too low.

My guess with the Mobil 1 filter is that the pressure goes up at the gauge because all filters have a drop, but the best filters drop less. I've noticed that premium filters usually do give a slightly higher reading. On my old 87, a better filter would raise the hot running pressure by 3 to 5 pounds on the gauge. I did also once saw open a number of different filters that I had lying around (I tend to accumulate many filters in a bucket before I get rid of them all). I didn't have a Fram to look at, but I had some generic NAPA and the like, as well as a Bosch and a K&N. Both of those had significantly more pleats in the filter, suggesting more surface area. I realize that material itself makes a difference so a simple increase in pleats is not proof positive, but assuming similar material, it's a good bet. The K&N material was visibly different from ordinary filter paper, too - quite stiff and thick, and the case really is much thicker than others. It may or may not be "better" than other filters, but it certainly is different.

My current favorite is Wix, available locally for only a buck or two more than the generics. Could be irrational, but I figure I can reasonably trust that Dana at least won't make total crap.
 
Wix is my current filter of choice as well.

as an aside, I can gain an additional 3 - 5 psi by turning off my headlights and blower motor. ;)
 
RichP said:
Don't feel bad, Fram has some stuff that I would not touch, take the teflon loaded filters as an example, nothing like some teflon cycling thru your lube system considering that Dupont itself has said it is not to be used in IC engines but they did it anyway.
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I thought teflon reduces friction on surfaces? Not attacking, just asking...

Anybody had any Bosch experience? I have been satisfied so far, but it's only been about a year of runnin them now...
 
buffalomatt350 said:
I thought teflon reduces friction on surfaces? Not attacking, just asking...

Anybody had any Bosch experience? I have been satisfied so far, but it's only been about a year of runnin them now...
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I was looking for the reference from dupont about the teflon additives to oil, either direclty as slick50 or as an additive to the filter where the oil disperses it but could not find it. From what I remember they said it was a no-no and that it should not be used in an internal combustion engine, either gas or diesel. It is also very telling that they give alot of detail about car #24 and no mention is made of using teflon in their race car. That says something considering they mention that dupont krytox is used to keep the sparkplug boots from sticking to the spark plugs, gotta figure that if they used teflon in the lube system they would tout that to the rafters...and the only mention of teflon ptfe is in the hose construction for the cooling system.
Teflon works great for cooking eggs [if your not a purist] but mixed in with my oil, don't think so...
 
OK Matthew, whats with the old farts crack:laugh3: Just because I use a toilet paper oil filter.
 
On the most recent oil change. I switched from my usual Fram T/G (the unit for XJ's) to a Moble 1 (for a Ford 5.0), and noticed no difference at all in oil pressure hot, or cold. I did note that new the Fram (Ford 5.0) was lighter than the Moble 1 (Ford 5.0) filter. Also on another note if anyone is wandering the 5.0 filters won't fit a 5.2ltr ZJ. There isn't enough room between the filter boss, and the upper control arm. I had a Fram T/G on that as well, and was forced to use a cheepo Tech Gard on it (control arm clearance with the already bought 5.0 filter, and to late in the day to go exchange it). Didn't notice any difference on it eather.
 
well did an oil change in teh 2.5 MJ tonight and the fancy new WIX I bought to put on it. and low and behold DID NOT FIT.....so had to grab a fram off the shelf in the garage to finish...I will take the WIX back tomorrow..Mighty purty for a paper weight
 
Seems that all auto parts stores must have a good contract with Fram in Hawaii. All I ever see anywhere is Fram. Unless I goto Napa or Carquest, I can get thier filters. I think that Wix makes filters for both those companies. I used to use the Wal-Mart brand when I lived in Colorado, but was told that they don't make it for the 4.0 anymore. Not sure if that is correct, but I haven't seen the wal-mart filter since living in CO. I wouldn't touch a Fram filter with a 100 foot pole. That is just my opinion and I open filters for a living being an airplane mechanic. Frams are by far the worst constructed filter I have ever seen. But if they work for you great! They just will never be on my engine.
 
A quick note on Teflon. I don't recall sources any more, but I've seen a couple of reputable reports that basically point out that substances like that simply don't stay where they will do any good. The teflon, being a particulate in suspension, simply drops down into the pan or gets caught in the filter, doing nothing but contributing to clogging. In any event, bearing surfaces are meant to run with fluid, not solids in them, and anything but fluid is likely to scour the surfaces.

Ball bearings, similarly, are meant to roll along a very finely machined surface with extremely small tolerances, and any solid matter that gets on the surface will either be pushed away without doing any good, or rolled over, causing damage. My main reference for ball bearings is a rather old New Departure handbook, but I don't think anything has changed, really. You can even use the same 1932 bearing numbers to order one today. They point out that the only function of grease in a ball bearing is to hold the oil where it belongs. It's oil that they want, mostly for cooling of the mating surfaces. Back when this book was written, there was no such thing as Teflon, but they specifically warned against additives with graphite for the reasons cited above.

Buffalomatt: I've used Bosch many times, and found them quite good. I am more inclined toward Wix these days simply because they're also quite good, usually a little cheaper, and my nearest parts store carries them.
 
The last oil change i performed on the xj I used valvoline hig mileage synthetic and a K&N and love the results I switched from a fram t/g and regular valvo high mileage. the changing of oil on my mom's wj consisted of valvo high mileage syn and a pure one oil filter(very pretty same colr as my xj or similar) and she didn't notice any diff. but she didn't pay attention switched from fram t/g and valvo high mileage. my 2 pennies
 
OK...if you want the some of the best protection out there get yourself 6 Qts. of AMSOIL High Performance oil, it is a syn. oil and is pricey, about the same as Royal Purple ,but it is a far better product and a couple of their "Super Duty" oil filters and your good for approx. 25k miles and that will end all the Fram discussion.
 
dizzymac said:
OK...if you want the some of the best protection out there get yourself 6 Qts. of AMSOIL High Performance oil, it is a syn. oil and is pricey, about the same as Royal Purple ,but it is a far better product and a couple of their "Super Duty" oil filters and your good for approx. 25k miles and that will end all the Fram discussion.
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BUT


It will open up a AMSOIL discussion.

Snake oil

JMHO


Rev
 
Rev Den said:
BUT


It will open up a AMSOIL discussion.

Snake oil

JMHO


Rev
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Actually Amsoil synthetic is the only Amsoil product thats been tested by the SAE people. None of their other stuff has been.
Amsoil is a PIA to get as the only amsoil dealer in my area is a barber and he keeps it on the shelf right next to the clubman cologne and amway garage floor cleaner...and he gives lousy haircuts...
 
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