Ball Joints Bad?

[91Woody]

Here are my front end symptoms which I believe to be ball joints, but I'm looking for some more insight.
My front tires are chopped heavily, every other lug is like sawteeth in height. One is normal, one is short, etc. I have obviously noticed this for a while, but I have not had time to attempt to fix it myself and don't have the $900 a shop wants to do it for me.
My steering is "odd" it has a bit of play before it actually "engages", I hear that it's the "speed sensitive" steering, but it's the same at low or hight speed.
When I apply breaks I can now hear a "creak" from my drivers side front.
I have done the track bar, Tie rod ends, shocks are a year old. I have 2.5" lift and 31's on a 91XJ 4.0

If it is the ball joints, is it a laborious process? The repair manuals make every job seem like an hour and your done. Shop said it was a four hour job. Any help is appreciated.
TIA

 

[kevin s]

Well, I worked on one side for several hours before I gave up and took it to the dealer. If I were you, I would take that hour and devote it to travel time to and from a mechanic. Failing that, give this a look:

http://jeephorizons.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=9287

 

[91Woody]

nice writeup, thanks for that. I will probably wrench it for a little while and if I get stuck I have AAA...lol.
Perhaps a machine shop would do the pressing if the loaner tools are such a PITA to use, I know Robbins does wheel bearings and such.

I do not part with $900 that easily

 

[jeepboy381]

I just replaced all 4 of mine in my dana 30, it was quite easy. I bought a ball joint press from harbor freight and the ball joints. I would say it would take 2-5 hours if you have not done it before, now that I have done it I bet I could do it much faster. If someone wanted to charge me $900 to change ball joints I think I would start laughing out of control!

 

[Blaine B.]

I'll replace your Balljoints for $500. What a deal!

 

[91Woody]

They wanted like $110 for the upper EACH and $90 EACH lower. I do my own maintenance and repairs with exception of things that need welding or pipe bending-the stuff that takes specialized tools I cannot rent or get on loan....just never had to do ball joints before so I figured I'd just see how much they would charge. I do that often for a little "motivation" when I'm pissed because something isn't going as planned while wrenching. At the end of the day I know I just saved a hell of a lot of money and did it myself.

 

[91Woody]

I'll replace your Balljoints for $500. What a deal!

Sure, but you have to do it at my house:moon: :roll:

 

[89xj]

is it actually the ball joints that are bad. have you actually looked for play in them? did you try rocking the wheel/tire up and down?

from your first thread, your just assuming there bad without even looking at them or testing them.

as for replacing them, if you have any mechanical skills its not hard with the right tools.

 

[91Woody]

from your first thread, your just assuming there bad without even looking at them or testing them.

Per my first post..."Here are my front end symptoms which I believe to be ball joints, but I'm looking for some more insight.
My front tires are chopped heavily, every other lug is like sawteeth in height. One is normal, one is short, etc."

I'm not such a tool that I'm going to replace them without checking them but it's raining like hell the last couple days and I haven't gone outside and played with them yet. I have finally decided it's time to fix the problem whatever it may be as i will be putting on new tires again and don't want to burn through this set too. So, I was looking for any other issues to check while I was there, or if ball joints sounds like the likely culprit.

 

[89xj]

i didnt mean to insult you, some people ask questions and just go by what the symtoms are. kinda of like when people replace parts until they get lucky and finally replace the correct part.

have you checkd the toe alignment? could be the cause of the tire wear.

bad balljoint will throw the camber angle off.

i would get an alignment and see if toe and camber are within spec.

 

[91Woody]

^^^No worries, I just wanted to let you know where i was coming from, many times I do not elaborate enough or give quite enough info. I am far too cheap to replace parts until i get it right.
funny story on the alignment....when I had my oil changed and trans fluid changed (cause I needed the time to do U-joints instead) I asked the shop to do an alignment on it. They told me it wouldn't do any good, they couldn't adjust it.
When i went to Pep Boys (will NEVER do it again) and bought my tires last year I told them to do an alignment on it. They had my Jeep for six hours and didn't have time to do the alignment by the time I needed to pick it up. I need to stop now, I could go on and on about Pep Boys service and Mechanics.
In either case, i have TRIED to get an alignment twice and failed both times.:smsoap:
Hopefully I'll get some time this week to check the ball joints cause i'm getting anxious about my lift and i want to order my tires. Damn choppy Mud tires are driving me nuts.

 

[Jed]

Only one way to check ball joints... Jack 1 tire off the groung 2-3 inches, stick a pry bar under the tire and have someone to lift up and let off while you look at the ball joints from the front. If there is slack in the ball joints you will see it clear as day!

 

[Matthew Currie]

Only one way to check ball joints... Jack 1 tire off the groung 2-3 inches, stick a pry bar under the tire and have someone to lift up and let off while you look at the ball joints from the front. If there is slack in the ball joints you will see it clear as day!

I don't know exactly when the change was made, but later models have a different ball joint design from the early ones. The early ones have a seat in the knuckle to adjust the height. Later ones do not, and use a sliding upper joint, so that vertical play is controlled entirely by the lower joint. I add this simply because on the later ones, if you have only vertical play, and no side play at the top, this is not necessarily a bad upper, but is definitely a bad lower. It probably makes sense to do both while you're at it, but if you're a cheapskate, you might not need to do the upper every time.

 

[91Woody]

^^^^interesting, I'll have to check it out.
For fun I looked in the Haynes manual for Ball Joints and all it says is that it requires them to be pressed out so take it to a professional. WTF kind of "complete tear down" manual is that? Lousy I tell ya.

 

[duke000088]

I'll resurrect this thread to ask about my recent ball joint experience:

1999 XJ 4WD Auto 4.0... I am experiencing a lightness in the steering... loose, some sway especially at speed. I was suspecting steering linkage issues so I brought it to Dan's Jeep in Westborough MA (very reputable dealer) for a front end eval. They came back with: all ball joints and axle u-joints (don't even ask how much they were looking to get me on that job). I've tried to detect play in the ball joints using the methods described in other posts without much success. I asked the service department to show me the play in the joints. On a lift, the tech used AT LEAST a 3 foot pry bar between the knuckle and the yolk. Prying with gentle force yielded signficant movment of the joints (up/down). Yikes. But further reading has forced me to ask the folks if you think this is a fair test... wouldn't ANY joint move a bit with a 3-4 foot pry bar under it??
I'm gearing up to tear down this weekend and try my hand with the old ball joint press... is it worth another opinion? Does it really jive with symptoms of loosey-goosey steering?

 

[89xj]

I'll resurrect this thread to ask about my recent ball joint experience:

1999 XJ 4WD Auto 4.0... I am experiencing a lightness in the steering... loose, some sway especially at speed. I was suspecting steering linkage issues so I brought it to Dan's Jeep in Westborough MA (very reputable dealer) for a front end eval. They came back with: all ball joints and axle u-joints (don't even ask how much they were looking to get me on that job). I've tried to detect play in the ball joints using the methods described in other posts without much success. I asked the service department to show me the play in the joints. On a lift, the tech used AT LEAST a 3 foot pry bar between the knuckle and the yolk. Prying with gentle force yielded signficant movment of the joints (up/down). Yikes. But further reading has forced me to ask the folks if you think this is a fair test... wouldn't ANY joint move a bit with a 3-4 foot pry bar under it??
I'm gearing up to tear down this weekend and try my hand with the old ball joint press... is it worth another opinion? Does it really jive with symptoms of loosey-goosey steering?

on my 89, loose steering is usually attributed to a worn trackbar TRE or loose trackbar bolt on the axle mount.

worn TRE's on the tie rod and draglink.

worn u-joints on the steering shaft.

 

[Matthew Currie]

I'll resurrect this thread to ask about my recent ball joint experience:

1999 XJ 4WD Auto 4.0... I am experiencing a lightness in the steering... loose, some sway especially at speed. I was suspecting steering linkage issues so I brought it to Dan's Jeep in Westborough MA (very reputable dealer) for a front end eval. They came back with: all ball joints and axle u-joints (don't even ask how much they were looking to get me on that job). I've tried to detect play in the ball joints using the methods described in other posts without much success. I asked the service department to show me the play in the joints. On a lift, the tech used AT LEAST a 3 foot pry bar between the knuckle and the yolk. Prying with gentle force yielded signficant movment of the joints (up/down). Yikes. But further reading has forced me to ask the folks if you think this is a fair test... wouldn't ANY joint move a bit with a 3-4 foot pry bar under it??
I'm gearing up to tear down this weekend and try my hand with the old ball joint press... is it worth another opinion? Does it really jive with symptoms of loosey-goosey steering?

A three or four foot pry bar is a fair test. There should be no play at all.

Bad universal joints won't contribute to steering problems, but since the axles have to come off to do the ball joints, you might as well do it and save on labor.

When the ball joints on my 87 went bad, it wandered, wobbled and wore the insides of the tires, but when a lower one went on my 99 all it did was clunk. I never felt the problem. But if they're bad, they're bad, and you should fix them.

If you have up-down play, it points to a lower joint. If possible, see if you can jack or pry the wheel up, and then pull back and forth on the top of the wheel, to test for side play. If there is no side play, you might not need an upper joint. Of course, if there's any doubt, you would do better to replace it anyway, but on the 99, the top joint is designed to move up and down, to provide self-adjustment, with the lower joint alone providing vertical location (earlier models used a more complex system with an adjustable ring).

I found that it's not a hard job if you have, or can make, the right adapters for the press.

 

[duke000088]

Thanks for the replies. Given how much the joints moved with the pry bar test and the overall feel of the vehicle, them joints are definately coming out. And I totally agree - I'll swap the axle U-joints while I'm at it. I already have a shop lined up to set me up with some Spicers (the 5-760x joints I believe).

I'll give the AZ press a shot with the adaptors see how it goes!

 

[RenegadeT]

Time to resurrect this one again...
I have some DW, but it seems like it is coming from the front drivers side. I've had very bad outer edge tire wear on that corner for a while, I've suspected a bad wheel bearing, but havent motivated to fix it yet. About 1.5yr ago, I added a 3.5" Rustys lift, fixed LCAs, RE1600 trackbar, professional alignment, and used 31x10.5 BFG ATs..no vibes. A few months ago I decided to level the front with 1" coil spring spacers....DW began. I swapped my stock tie rod for a HD BigDaddy tie rod and brought it in for alignment...8deg caster, I was toed out like 0.02 degree, they brought it within spec to 0.25 toe in, DW continues.

Now, I just started tearing into it to replace the hubs, and just noticed a gap at my lower balljoint on the drivers side. Is this normal for a '99?
big pic of my junk in the air...
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f363/RenegadeT/100_2554.jpg

I put the the floor jack under this balljoint and didnt see any upward play. Earlier, my buddy and I couldnt find anything loose anywhere. One of us would saw the steering wheel back/forth and all joint TREs, bushings looked tight. This grocery getter XJ has everything as it left the factory except the lift, LCAs, and tracbar, 140,000 miles.

 

[alohajeff]

I know it's an old thread... but I was using the search button and this thread seemed to help me out. My question is... I've had a clunk up front for quite some time but it's never been a big deal. My question is this, if I can SEE this much of a gap when I jack the front end off the ground, just how "dangerous" is the ball-joint clunk. In other words, can I go wheeling tomorrow and expect it to just keep on clunking like it has for a year or two? At what point does the annoying clunk become an indicator of imminent failure?

Here's the pics:

Another...

Any advice? Change them ASAP or ???