APN Header Cracked????

[Boostwerks.com]

To each his own.
If the APN is a POS then sadly the Banks & Borla @ 3X the cost is even worse because we know for a fact those are 409 Stainless correct?
IF the APN is lying about using 321 then you should report them.

IF the APN is 409 stainless then its still a better deal than Banks or Borla and somehow or another I see quite a few Banks & Borla cracking while very few APNs doing so.
Better to buy a $130 POS than a $400+ one.

and I fully agree about the Flex joint.

I would feel more comfortable having a header from a reputable company that tells you the truth VS a company claiming that they use 321 materials. For anyone that hasn't priced out 321, it's about 5x's more expensive than 304 and simply isn't possible for them to make and still produce a profit. Also 321 requires TIG welding (temp control) due to it's high moly and chromium content, where lesser stainlesses can get away with MIG. Just for this reason, I would rather have a Banks or Borla. Then you also get into the companies ability to back up their warranty...ect.

I would report them, but like so many other companies using shady chinese manufacturing techniques it's almost impossible to find the true manufacture. APN would surely tell you that they are "simply retailing the product." A lot of Ebay companies are a prime example.

Hell, I could start selling TIG welded sch10 304 manifolds with a lifettime warranty for the Jeeps, but I'd have to charge $900 for them.

 

[alex22]

Back to the welding/recracking. The reason the metal cracks right next to where you just welded it is because of the stress caused by the weld shrinking as it cools.
Preheating and postheating are very effective for crack repairs. When the work piece is heated up prior to welding and then controlling how fast it cools down the stress from the weld is distributed across a much larger area. This can be done with either an oven, torch, kerosene heater or whatever you have avaliable. You can controll how fast it cools by either placing it back in the oven or covering it with welding blankets. If you are feeling really handy with a torch why not let the engine come up to temp, turn it off, disconnect the battery, weld then stress relieve it with a hammer and punch.
Drilling holes at either end of the crack is very useful too, but it is usually to isolate the crack prior to welding, so you don't chase it across the work piece.
Stress releiving the area with a hammer/punch/air chisel just after welding will compress the weld so it cannot shrink as far.
I've used these tricks a number of times with great sucesess.
~Alex

 

[Nunyabiz]

The APN is made in China where 321 is NOT 5X more exp, in fact probably isn't anymore exp than 409 is here. Also "might" not be as good a quality of 321 either.
The true manufacturer is actually "ATP" out of Chicago which farms out the labor to China from a place I believe called "Greywerks".

http://www.atp-inc.com/tech/05-32.html

As far as whether or not its actually 321 Stainless of whatever quality I kinda doubt that you really have any idea, are you not just assuming it cant be because of the price of 321 here in the US?
You may or may not be correct I have no idea.

At $130 Vs $400+ frankly I could not care less about the warranty because I can buy 3 of them for the price of one and from what reviews I have seen the APN/ATP manifold has a lower failure rate than either the Banks or the Borla "for a Jeep".

So bottom line is you can buy a $400+ Banks/Borla that will NOT last any longer nor preform any better than the $130 APN/ATP, regardless where its made or what its made of or how its welded is basically a moot point.

My exhaust just cracked recently which is how I stumbled onto this site, from everything I have seen I see no reason not to opt for the $130 APN.

Just out of curiosity since its obvious you wouldn't use the APN which manifold would you recommend?

 

[Nunyabiz]

BTW since you mention
"I would feel more comfortable having a header from a reputable company that tells you the truth VS a company claiming that they use 321 materials"

Do you believe that either 321 or 304 stainless is a better material for a Jeep exhaust manifold?
Kinda sounds as if you do unless I am misinterpreting you.

Well Gale Banks big selling point (so they say) is that they use 409 Stainless which they "claim" is better for exhaust manifolds.

http://bankspower.com/FAQs_Durability.cfm#7

Then we have Borla which uses T304 which they say is superior.

Which is 'telling the Truth"?

personally I think Banks is trying to sell a load of BS (as far as his exhaust manifolds go) most people I have ever heard & spoken to prefer the 304 or 321 over 409.
There is a easy way to check if these APN manifolds are 300 series or 400 series steel.
400 is magnetic, 300 is not.

 

[Nunyabiz]

Anyone on this forum that has a APN?
If so is it 300 or 400 series stainless? (check with a magnet)

How long have you had it, any problems and would you buy it again?

Just curious because I am going to be ordering one next Thursday or Friday unless I find out they are junk between now and then.

and I have to correct a mistake I made in my first post.

I said that: "APN headers are made of 321 Stainless which is much better quality stainless than either the Borla or Banks which is 409 stainless."
I mistakenly put the "Borla" manifold in the same category as the Banks in both "Material and breakage"
In fact the Borla is 304 stainless and I have only heard of 1 or 2 cracking which puts it about the same as the APN as far as material & breakage, just that it cost 4X more.

Anyway the Borla is out of the question for me because I am not going to spend $400+ for the manifold.

So for me its either the EBay for $86 or the APN for $130 and might see if I can rig a flex joint in there.

 

[92DripCherokee]

When I installed my APN header I had my exhaust guy weld in a five-inch flex pipe in a new, stock front pipe, it sits under the transmission bell housing. i wanted to put the flex right at the collector, but its too crowded there


I ought to become a supporter so i can show it off!
Installed a new motor and transmission mounts at the same time. Zero problems since, except rusty ass welds on the custom work. its a year old now.

I also installed it with all new bolts and belleville washers from the dealer. the old hardware was very rough with corrosion.

 

[Boostwerks.com]

The APN is made in China where 321 is NOT 5X more exp, in fact probably isn't anymore exp than 409 is here. Also "might" not be as good a quality of 321 either.
The true manufacturer is actually "ATP" out of Chicago which farms out the labor to China from a place I believe called "Greywerks".

http://www.atp-inc.com/tech/05-32.html

As far as whether or not its actually 321 Stainless of whatever quality I kinda doubt that you really have any idea, are you not just assuming it cant be because of the price of 321 here in the US?
You may or may not be correct I have no idea.

At $130 Vs $400+ frankly I could not care less about the warranty because I can buy 3 of them for the price of one and from what reviews I have seen the APN/ATP manifold has a lower failure rate than either the Banks or the Borla "for a Jeep".

So bottom line is you can buy a $400+ Banks/Borla that will NOT last any longer nor preform any better than the $130 APN/ATP, regardless where its made or what its made of or how its welded is basically a moot point.

Just out of curiosity since its obvious you wouldn't use the APN which manifold would you recommend?

Your inter-mixing labor cost with material cost. Sure they might get 321 slightly cheaper than us (based primarily on exchange rates), but it honestly won't be all that far off from what we have to pay. Why? Simply because of the process and materials it takes to produce 321 (Titanium being one of them). The main cost benefit is the huge difference in labor costs.

Without having a manifold to test, I honestly can't say for 100% sure that it is or isn't 321. However, doing extensive material costing work (I TIG stainless everyday, and work as an Inventory/purchasing manager for a medium sized fabrication company) I can tell you it's EXTREMELY hard to beleive. 321 is rediculously expensive wherever you go. Even at wholesale prices 321 averages about $40/ft for a 16ga 1.5" tube. Price that out (not including bends, welding, flanges, shipping, overhead...ect). Unless APN has it's own stainless company supplying it's stainless at a loss, I'm willing to bet it's not truely 321.

Which manifold would I buy? A Dorman from Summit, and get it ceramic coated. I'd make sure to build a DP though with a flex section. I honestly think most of these manifolds were talking about will last with simply the flex added.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=RNB%2D674%2D196&N=700+4294908280+4294908279+4294924667+401115+115&autoview=sku

If your looking more for top end performance gains, I'd then go with the Borla (better collector design) and 304 is always more prefered over 409.

Do you believe that either 321 or 304 stainless is a better material for a Jeep exhaust manifold?
Kinda sounds as if you do unless I am misinterpreting you.

Well Gale Banks big selling point (so they say) is that they use 409 Stainless which they "claim" is better for exhaust manifolds.

http://bankspower.com/FAQs_Durability.cfm#7

Then we have Borla which uses T304 which they say is superior.

Which is 'telling the Truth"?

personally I think Banks is trying to sell a load of BS (as far as his exhaust manifolds go) most people I have ever heard & spoken to prefer the 304 or 321 over 409.
There is a easy way to check if these APN manifolds are 300 series or 400 series steel.
400 is magnetic, 300 is not.

321 is always going to be a better material for any application that goes repeatedly through high heat cycles. Howevver, it's not really needed considering the manifold will never approach the temps to warrant using 321. 304 is more than enough for a Jeep manifold. 321 is really suited to a 1500+degf application such as a race car exhaust or turbo manifold. If the application doesn't reach those temps on a regular basis, using it is simply a waste of money. 409 on the other hand, is basically crap. In other words, it's the 85 octane of the stainless world It's honestly only slightly better than mild steel.

If you'd like to buy the APN...go for it! Just try and get a flex section in there, and you'll honestly have nothing to worry about.

 

[Nunyabiz]

From what I have read reviews wise I think I may opt for the APN since most seem to like them and the price is right.

I totally agree about the flex section and will get that done also, along with changing out motor mounts, have 130,000 miles on the ones in there.

Thanks for your input.

 

[92DripCherokee]

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?p=243904032#post243904032


This is my set up, with a short flex coupler.

After aging 1 year the APN is showing signs of being 2 different alloys, the flange is corroding 2x faster.
I'll shoot some pictures of it soon. Might mean the thing will leak or crack one day, but so far i'm impressed with it.

 

[Nunyabiz]

OK thought I would update in case anyone is interested and might be looking for a manifold.

I got the APN, ordered it on a Monday night and got it Thursday morning, took about 2 hours 45min to install counting taking off and fully cleaning the throttle body & cleaning out the intake manifold.
Fit perfectly with no problems at all.

Also just to get rid of any doubts about the material it is made of and the quality of the welds I can confirm without ANY doubt that the APN manifold is 300 Series stainless and the welds are very nice.

For $148.00 total counting shipping and in my hands within 3 days, made out of superior stainless over the Banks and cost like $300+ less there is no contest.

I have not really checked if I am getting any better mileage or not but it sure has better throttle response & feel over the stock manifold, little more pep and I have changed nothing but the manifold, going to change the rest of the exhaust system a bit later.

So I can definitely recommend the APN and for the price nothing else comes close IMO.